Author Topic: What's the smallest cartridge you should use? (Read 4349 times)

grousehunter · « **Reply #60 on:** June 09, 2006, 03:34:24 PM »

cheesehead took a little offence to my statement about unethical shots! I stand by my statement! a rearward shot up into the vitals is one thing, but a straight on rear shot is still unethecal,and prob. under anybody's book! no matter how powerful the rifle!

Cheesehead · « **Reply #61 on:** June 09, 2006, 04:05:00 PM »

Say, grouse hunter

Stop putting words in my mouth.

Stick to your beliefs but do not force them upon other people.

Learn how to spell.

Stop insulting people.

Let the bucks walk for lack of the PERFECT shot so I can shoot them.

Stick to grouse hunting.

Be my friend.

Get off your high horse.

Have a nice day.

Cheese

Slamfire · « **Reply #62 on:** June 09, 2006, 10:16:06 PM »

Quote from: grousehunter

cheesehead took a little offence to my statement about unethical shots! I stand by my statement! a rearward shot up into the vitals is one thing, but a straight on rear shot is still unethecal,and prob. under anybody's book! no matter how powerful the rifle!

When you absoultely have to shoot at the south end of a north bound animal, aim at the root of the tail. If the bullet goes high it'll hit the spine in the neck, If its a bit low it'll go in between the hams and if the bullet is heavy enough for the caliber will make it all the way through to the vitals. Of course, if you hit the spot you aimed at the animal will be anchored, until you can finish it.
I did it once on a cow elk. it was a bit messy my bullet was a little bit low.

Judson · « **Reply #63 on:** June 10, 2006, 12:59:56 PM »

Cheese, you should try a .416 Rigby, I think you would love it. Or even a .375 H&H, there is some thing to be said for hunting with a rifle that can handle any thing any where in the world. Any bullet to kill cleanly has to get into the heart lung area or the brain. If a person can handle these bigger cartridges then fine however like Cheese said you must think 3D. Even with the big stuff a gut shot deer is a gut shot deer and a poor shot for what ever reason was taken. By the way I am not putting down the people who like cartridges like the .243, smaller then this I have a problem with. When shooting at game the idea is a quick one shot kill, the bigger more powerful cartridges give us more lee way but the bullet must still end up in the vital area. I like my big guns but I am much more impressed with a hunter/shooter who will wait and place their shot just right. or shoot those nice one hole groups at the range with a .243 then I am with a person who wounds, misses and shoots up their target frame with a .458.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #64 on:** June 11, 2006, 03:19:07 AM »

Judson

God bless you for using a more than an adequate cartridge. I have always had a fascination with 375 HH. The cartridge is steeped in history. I handle recoil very well. Since I have an Encore system a 375 barrel can be added for a little over 200 bucks. This is very tempting.

Cheese

Todd1700 · « **Reply #65 on:** June 11, 2006, 03:50:52 AM »

Quote

Imagine you are still hunting the big woods and the TROPHY buck of a LIFETIME stands up and quickly walks directly away from you. The optimum rifle round I would want is a 7mm Rem mag with 175 grain partitions.

The thing that makes the shot a feasable one in your scenario isn't the caliber but the bullet type. Caliber alone in this circumstance would not be the major factor. For example, in that situation I'd rather have a 243 with a 100gr Barnes x-bullet than a 30-06 with a 150gr ballistic tip. When penetration is the major issue bullet type is more important than caliber size. It would be wrong to assume that just because you are carrying a 7 mag that this alone makes any shot angle okay.

I have a friend who uses a 300 WSM and 150gr ballastic silver tips for deer here in Alabama. He did not have a single bullet exit on three broadside shots that hit nothing bigger or harder than a rib this past season. And I doubt that the biggest deer he killed weighed more than 160 lbs. By comparison I probably had fewer than 3 bullets fail to exit deer in 5 years of hunting with a 243. (I use a 25-06 now) Because I used a more toughly constructed bullet.

Bottem line, if you want to take a shot from any angle then use a bullet designed for it.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #66 on:** June 11, 2006, 02:14:47 PM »

Todd

You are correct. I mentioned the 175 partition as a good choice. Maybe a Barnes triple shock in the heaviest weight would be even better in the 7 mag.

Cheese

grousehunter · « **Reply #67 on:** June 11, 2006, 05:06:02 PM »

Cheesehead I never condemed you for the rearward shot, I did it for the totally rearend shot!!!!!!! You can't eat the horns and if they are that important to you to chance a poss. wounding shot,then you might as well go out and pouch a deer! I have taken chance shots in the past, but will never take a shot for only the magnifacent buk, ( for your benifit) shot to kill a nice animal, not fot the rack that he wears and if that is what you are hunting for, then make an ethical shot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Judson · « **Reply #68 on:** June 11, 2006, 05:42:07 PM »

Cheese, go for the .375, you will never look back!!!! You must keep in mind that it is not what you kill your game with, that is the easy part. The chalange of hunting is getting the chance to take that shot and make a clean killAs power goes down so do ethical shooting possibilities. You might try the Swift A Frames in your 7mm Mag the AFrames worked great for me in South Africa and I use the 300 grain bullet on every thing even deer. (9.3 or .366 diameter) In my .366 DGW it flatens every thing I have shot at for the most part in their tracks.

myronman3 · « **Reply #69 on:** June 12, 2006, 12:59:33 AM »

i have sat back and watched this one. i must say, i really wonder about how much experience some of you here really have. "calmly shooting" a trophy buck of a lifetime in the back of the head? you know you just blew the rack into pieces? and that is if you can hit him in the back of the head, as most deer move their head alot when they are standing still, let alone moving. and, what if you are trailing a deer that you have already shot, or some else has already shot, and he gets up out of his bed, to run away, putting that animal down is the most ethical thing there is, even with a 'texas heart shot'. never say never. and please dont tell me about how if an animal is wounded, that someone messed up. things happen in the woods. twigs appear, people flinch, animals move. it happens.

the fact is the smaller bores can work, but those using them are putting limits on what they can and cant do. things like bullet selection factor alot into the equation; but a capable caliber along with good bullet selection is a winning combination. prepare for the worse, hope for the best.

one more thing....if you can calmly shoot at the trophy buck of a lifetime, you should quit hunting. Lord knows if i ever lose the rush i will hang it up.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #70 on:** June 12, 2006, 02:19:35 AM »

Say, grouse hunter

Start your own thread on your version of ethics and stop high jacking this one. It has grown tiresome and self serving.

Cheese

grousehunter · « **Reply #71 on:** June 12, 2006, 02:38:58 PM »

myron, I 90 % agree with everything you said! But a med cal. rifle will do everything the lgr will! ONLY at a shorter distance, and it goes back to what I have always said! MAKE THE 1ST ONE COUNT AND REST ARE ONLY TO SATISFY YOUR EGO!!!!!!!!!!

Zachary · « **Reply #72 on:** June 12, 2006, 03:01:07 PM »

Okay guys, let me put on my moderator hat here.

Shake hands, kiss, and make up. I don't want want to see any more arguments between you two on this thread.

If you want to continue communicating to each other about this topic, then either PM each other, or exchange telephone numbers and TALK TO EACH OTHER.

Zachary

jmckinley · « **Reply #73 on:** June 12, 2006, 04:19:21 PM »

I'm a little late on this on but thought i'd stir the pot a little. I live here in NM and the shots can be on the far side of 300 and for me a 25-06 but my personal rifle is a 270 Win. i have made one rear end shot and the animal was dead in his tracks. No doubt about it but i would not try that shot for fear of crippiling or seriously wounding an animal. There is just to little margin for error and the outcome a mite questionable for me. IF u make that shot 10, out of 10 times then by all means let it rip. If the odds are less i sure would think twice even if I was shooting a DEATH RAY!!!!! Kidding a little but i'd hate to be responsible for a animl suffering because of my lack of judgement. Jess :shock:

myronman3 · « **Reply #74 on:** June 13, 2006, 01:26:10 AM »

Quote

what if you are trailing a deer that you have already shot, or some else has already shot, and he gets up out of his bed, to run away, putting that animal down is the most ethical thing there is, even with a 'texas heart shot'. never say never. and please dont tell me about how if an animal is wounded, that someone messed up. things happen in the woods. twigs appear, people flinch, animals move. it happens.

that is a solid a statement as they come. anyone who says it never happened to them is either not being forthright, or hasnt hunted much.

dukkillr · « **Reply #75 on:** June 15, 2006, 07:01:49 AM »

Quote

that is a solid a statement as they come. anyone who says it never happened to them is either not being forthright, or hasnt hunted much.

You're right. What's wrong with the "Just put that bullet in the right spot and you can kill with a .22lr" crowd is that they (or anyone) are not perfect. A sub-optimal shot is a reality for people who hunt in real life, not just in online chatrooms. When a sub-optimal shot happens, bigger is ALWAYS better.

I'm not a 243 fan, but that's what I consider minimal. I personally don't see any reason to try and force the minimum requirements. I wouldn't go smaller than a 25-06.

Zachary · « **Reply #76 on:** June 18, 2006, 09:50:10 AM »

Well said.

Zachary

GeoW · « **Reply #77 on:** June 22, 2006, 06:00:11 AM »

Quote from: longwalker

When I have to feed myself I would use a bigger bullet always. When I am out for fun I use the 25-06.

longwalker

Best answer I've ever seen to this worn out question. Depends on how hungry I am. Thanks longwalker.

GeoW

j.trevor123 · « **Reply #78 on:** June 22, 2006, 05:10:05 PM »

to me its not exactly what caliber its more like what grain bullet. Most small rifles have enough velocity.... alot actually. But the lowest grain i would go would probly be 100. You may be able to kill something with a smaller bullet, but why. If it was the last gun i had and stranded in the woods then maybe, but if not then make sure you kill the animal humainly and use the proper bullet weight and energy.

Judson · « **Reply #79 on:** June 24, 2006, 02:08:10 PM »

You know people, it is not the killing of a deer that hunting is all about! Hunting is about getting the opertunity to shoot a deer. Killing a deer is very easy it is getting to that point that is hard and chalenging. With that said then it should be obvious that we should use the best tool and the most effective tool for the job at hand. This would be within reason the hardest hitting caliber we can shoot well. I am not saying you need a .458 for deer but if that is what floats your boat fine. The person who wants to see just how small and light a caliber they can use to kill deer is more intrested in some sort of bragging rights then in "ethical" deer hunting. Looking at this from a bit of a different light, sure a cape buff can be killed with a .223 but there is a very good chance you will get stomped, folded bent spindled or mutilateded. Now with a deer this will not happen but the deer could very well run off and die a lingering painful death. Wounded deer are not a consilation prize they are some thing to be ashamed of and avoided!!!! A wounded deer can happen to any of us with any caliber we use but the odds of recovery heavly favor the bigger cartridges. A humain kill is what we are after and look at a deer as dangerous game and put it down like your life depended on it. Tiny varmit class rifles and big egos do not belong in the deer woods!