Author Topic: What's the smallest cartridge you should use? (Read 4383 times)

Lawdog · « **Reply #30 on:** May 06, 2005, 08:49:56 AM »

Quote from: JJ79

Sure wish Tikka would make a .25 WSSM...I'd like to give that one a try.

Have no fear, Beretta/Sako/Tikka WILL be chambering their rifles for the line of WSSM cartridges. Just when this will happen no one but Beretta knows. With the way the WSSM's are selling Beretta isn't going to pass up the profits the sales of these cartridges will bring. The "bean counters" control what is manufactured. Lawdog

NorthernMich · « **Reply #31 on:** May 06, 2005, 09:16:17 AM »

I sold a .243 Compact because two deer I shot were alive on retrieval.

Last year I shot two deer with a Ruger 96 in .44 mag and they didn't go far and left a decent bloodtrail. One passed through, a front shoulder shot slug was retrieved from the hide inside the skin at the rump.

I'd use a .357 I believe with the results I had from the .44 mag.

I have a CZ in 7.62, haven't shot anything with it but I think it will do the job. Nice cheap ammo and the CZ is like a mini-Mauser with nice lock up and smooth bolt action. Better action than my standby .308 Mohawk. I judge all deer rifles by that standard

My kids will inherit the Mohawk on my death.

Slamfire · « **Reply #32 on:** May 06, 2005, 01:28:37 PM »

May Dad and I have killed about 75 or 80 deer with one or the other of the 6mms. We didn't have any outstanding issues with killing power, but we're pretty deliberate shooters, and haven't hit many badly. I'm usin' a .260 now, but have used .270s, 7mms, .30s also. The hot cartridge when I was a kid was the .250 Savage, one of my class mates had an old Model 20 Savage, and it killed deer like lightning, with them 87 grain factory loads.
I used a .22 Hornet for hide huntin' 'yotes, and if you use bullets made for the .22-250 and the .220 Swift, they will probably expand instead of fragment at Hornet velocities, they did for me and saved on exit holes, But 'yotes out west ran about 35 lbs, I'd worry about the 40 grain bullets on deer. Most Hornets have a 16 inch twist and can't stabilize bullets that weigh over 50 grains. I don't think I'd use one on deer.

SLAVAGE · « **Reply #33 on:** May 06, 2005, 05:49:14 PM »

ive seen deer up here in my shot with a 222 before
but my self i use a 243 an have been thinking of usen a 7mm tcu this up coming year

TCAS · « **Reply #34 on:** May 08, 2005, 01:53:10 PM »

6mm is the smallest in the states I hunt that can be used legally. So a 6mm BR with 65-80 grain bullets are fine. They don't run. Shot a pile of deer with Starke 80 grain 6mm bullets.

I would use a host of 17 caliber cenfires with 30 grain bullets if it were legal. I have full confidence in the 17 cal bullets for deer at ranges under 200 yards., but only for field type hunting.

TC

USA Varminter · « **Reply #35 on:** May 09, 2005, 10:24:01 AM »

.223 is my minimum, .308's are my maximum. Accuracy and consistancy are more important than extreme power. And i'd rather be able to put hundreds of rounds through my rifle comfortably to practice than to buy a box, sight in w/ five, then use the rest for hunting as many deer hunters i've met claim to do.

The .223 is supurbly accurate and capable, I do feel it is not the best pick past 100 yards, but that is a shooter judgement, and situational.

jim21 · « **Reply #36 on:** April 23, 2006, 01:08:11 PM »

Here in Western Wisconsin we have deer the size of Elk.I've used a .243
one time.Did'nt think it was all that bad.

35Rem · « **Reply #37 on:** April 23, 2006, 05:24:55 PM »

270 is my personal smallest deer cartridge. I would say .257 cal, like a 257 roberts 250 savage. I prefer 308 caliber, or bigger, though.

Questor · « **Reply #38 on:** April 24, 2006, 03:08:39 AM »

I guess it depends on what you mean by small. The smallest I'd use is 44 magnum. After that 30-30. Smallest diameter? 243.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #39 on:** April 24, 2006, 01:57:45 PM »

Imagine you are still hunting the big woods and the TROPHY buck of a LIFETIME stands up and quickly walks directly away from you. The optimum rifle round I would want is a 7mm Rem mag with 175 grain partitions. I believe this would penetrate end to end. I would feel under gunned with less. A friend of mine uses a 338 mag for this reason. The minimum would be a 308 Winchester or its ballistic equal.

257 roberts · « **Reply #40 on:** April 24, 2006, 04:47:45 PM »

257 Roberts/117gr. itgets the job done with power to spare.
( would use a 243Win/6mmRem/100gr.) :wink:

Doublejake · « **Reply #41 on:** April 24, 2006, 08:05:29 PM »

The smallest deer rifle I have ever used is a 308. Now I will only use a 30-06, Both have plenty off energy for big game. Although youth hunting is getting much larger, and most beginning their hunting career( kids) can't handle a 308 or a large caliber, My kids will start with a 243 or 25-06 and will only be taking shots under 150yrds (Broadside) . A 22 caliber is illegal in Vermont for hunting whitetail and I hope it forever stays that way. A 22 caliber can and will kill big game of course, but most chances of a clean kill don't exist with such a small caliber, and I feel it would be morally wrong to use one. It's like useing a BB gun to hunt woodchucks!!

mjbgalt · « **Reply #42 on:** April 24, 2006, 08:11:10 PM »

Cheesehead, if the buck of my lifetime walked directly away from me i would raise my super-accurate Browning .243 and calmly shoot him in the back of the head, thus negating my .243's ability to shoot through the entire deer.

-Matt

Cheesehead · « **Reply #43 on:** April 25, 2006, 01:53:34 PM »

I picture myself not having a clean shot at his head or neck and requiring total penetration, always anticipating the worst case scenario and being ready for it. The head shot is entirely possible and the 243 would work well for that.

Cheesehead

grousehunter · « **Reply #44 on:** April 25, 2006, 04:42:11 PM »

OK GUYS! enough of an argument!!! any cal. will take a deer on a head shot and we will neaver know who is best! But we all knoe the 17 &22 are illegill in most states and also immoral as they are to small! how about a 243 or a 25-06 as the smallest, they make more since!!!!!!!!!!!

mjbgalt · « **Reply #45 on:** April 25, 2006, 05:29:48 PM »

i was just trying to be clever, but i see your point. in that case i am really not sure what i would do...kinda a case by case thing.

i am not really thrilled by the idea of intentionally shooting a deer in the butt and hoping it will hit vitals. if it is a trophy it deserves even more respect and certainty of a clean shot, to me.

-Matt

jvs · « **Reply #46 on:** April 25, 2006, 09:47:46 PM »

One big variable that should give reason for what caliber you should be using - is where you are hunting and what does the surroundings look like.

There's probably nothing wrong with using a light caliber if everything is open. But if you end up shooting through brush or between trees or have harder shots, then there is no right light caliber. IMO

For me, the answer to your question would be anything in 30 caliber and above, which is the way I learned. Around here it is the prime caliber for hunting deer. In other places I am positive that the lighter calibers are just fine. The .243, .257R, .25-06 are good ones.

Not to say that something lighter won't kill a deer, but 30 caliber and above is proven.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #47 on:** April 27, 2006, 05:46:49 AM »

In my experience, referring to the deer that do not drop immediately, that require tracking, even if shot through the vitals, the blood trail increases in size in direct proportion the the increase in caliber. I have seen this with the 25-06, 308, 8mm, 44 mag and 45-70. The 30 cal and above are favorites in my hunting party.

verhoositz · « **Reply #48 on:** April 28, 2006, 12:31:35 PM »

I shot a SAKO 243 from the mid 60's to the mid 70's and learned to write my initials with it on a target ...but was always having to chase deer thru the brush using the available factory ammo and cup & core reloadable bullets of the day. I lost more deer with that SAKO than I ever have with ALL of the other guns I've hunted with since then and will not use anything smaller than a 25 caliber for deer to this day. I picked up a pre USRAC M70 Fwt 257 Rbt's when they first came out about 1978 or '79 and shot the barrel out of it eventually but when it's preferred ammo, WW white box std velocity 100 gr Silver tips, went off the market nothing I ever found or could re load duplicated the Rbt's accuracy and I moved on to the 270 I had picked up years earlier. In those days I was shooting 3-5000 rounds of CF off the bench or off hand every year in up to a dozen hunting rifles tuning and trading guns while working the gun industry, so being able to put the metal where it was needed was never a problem if I could see the critter...including several off hand running head shots on Rio Grande turkey's up to over 100yards and a one shot kill on a pronghorn at a measured 444 yards with the Roberts from a firm rest.
That was then and now 25+ years later with the high blood pressure from too much high octane steak and scotch making the crosshairs look like a trampoline cover in use it is a whole 'nuther story. IMO with modern bullets the 6MM's are the absolute minimum for an average hunter on deer at under 200 yard average shots from a firm rest in open ground. The old adage of "it takes approx 1000 ft pounds of energy at whatever range to kill a White Tail" is never more true the less hunters practice before season. The older I get the more appreciative I become of the "forgiveness" factor of bigger bullets and like the slower speeds and less meat damage that my slooow 9.3x62 delivers compared to everthing else I own gives, instead of the shot up WT's that I have used my all weather SS/Syn pig sticker 300WMg and 180's on...but then I don't care where I hit the porker I want him DRT. 60/70 years later Elmer Keith's advice from the late 1930's and 1940's of "use enough gun" is looking better and better JMHO
Ron

doncisler · « **Reply #49 on:** April 28, 2006, 03:31:33 PM »

to get off the subject a bit,
our guide in labradore caribou hunt said the locals use more 22-250's and 220 swift than anything else up there.
i know caribou aren't white tails but it was interesting.
here in michigan i am confident with the .243 anytime (personally i use 25-06 over fields and 45-70 revolver in closer). bought 460 s&w but havn't had a chance on anything with that yet.

lefteyedon · « **Reply #50 on:** April 29, 2006, 04:15:01 AM »

How about a 25-20? 87 grain bullet doing 1800 fps? It killed alot of deer in its day....

IT REAL IS A MORALS ISSUE

I shot my last deer with a 338 win mag using a 210 grn bullet. BIG DOE at about 275 yards. Perfect blouder to use as a rest, 1:00 pm clear day no wind. she was dead before she hit the ground.

Yes it was way too much gun, but it was an overlapping deer/elk season and the rifle I had in my hand at the. Truth be told I could have harvested that doe with a my 22-250, the base of the doe skull is about varmit sizes

I would never personally choose a 25-20 to use on deer, but with in its range this old caliber killed a lot of deer. Mostly I would bet deer shot in the gardens of rural folks.

Gary

j two dogs · « **Reply #51 on:** April 29, 2006, 07:20:38 AM »

List of cals. I have shot deer with:
.243
6.5x55
7mm mag
.308
30-06
.338 win mag
.50 cal ball
.50 44 mag xtp
More deer than I can count on fingers and toes have fallen to the above cals.

The only one I had to track was shot with the .243, It was in a harvested corn field with no blood trail for 150 yds. simply tracked the hoof print, found pile up in a creek bank, If the corn had been standing or there were other deer with it, may have never have found it.The shot was at 75 yds. broadside. Post mortum revealed the bullet had clipped the top part of the heart and exploded one lung, but never exited the deer was running dead on its feet on pure adrenaline. If a .243 was all I had to hunt with I'd hunt but if I had my rathers..............

corbanzo · « **Reply #52 on:** April 29, 2006, 07:28:29 AM »

We must also take into account where people are from and the size of the deer. We have little blacktails up here that you could take with a 22-250 without a fuss, where an 80lb deer is pretty big. Other places you can get the mega 300lb+ bucks. We can fight all day long about "what is right" but seriously, we are talking about different animals.

glshop20 · « **Reply #53 on:** June 03, 2006, 02:22:16 PM »

I think 6mm in the heaviest bullet weight that your rifle will shoot well. Sure centerfire .22's will kill a deer but I feel you owe it to the game you hunt to do everything possible to make a quick, clean kill. You could probably kill a deer with a blow-gun if the moon is full, the barometer is 29.39 and rising and gas is 35 cents a gallon but that don't make it a good idea.

Slamfire · « **Reply #54 on:** June 03, 2006, 08:08:42 PM »

I shot my first deer with a .32-20. That is better used as a small game/varmint gun, but it killed that yearling doe.
Since then I've used a .30-30, .250 Savage, .244/6mm, .243 and more 6.5mms than anything else. I like them and use them for everything.
I don't shoot bears anymore, 1 was enough, they look too much like men when skinned.

Judson · « **Reply #55 on:** June 06, 2006, 02:26:49 PM »

Lets look at this problem a bit! What is the most popular small game cartridge in the world? Why the .22 Long Rifle, this means that for a 2 pound bunny 140 pounds of energy is not over kill. If we anilise this a bit that means that we can stay out of the over kill classon deer if we use a cartridge which delivers around 70 pounds of energy per pound of deer. Thus a 100 pound deer would require around 7000 foot pounds of energy. This is why I use my .366 DGW for deer, it has 5873 foot pounds with a 250 grain bullet traveling along at 3253 FPS, so even on a 100 pound deer I am under gunned. This fall I will try out my .450 # 2 Nitro Express double. It has less energy then the .366 but I hope the frontal area will help out a bit.
In reality, I want an exit hole and do not want to have to pass up a lot of shots as up here in Maine the cover is thick and if in the woods you do not have much time to waite for that perfect shot. The lightest I would use is the 7mm X 57mm with a 175 grain bullet. Remember it is not how small a caliber one can use to kill a deer, it is getting close enough and haveing the opertunity that is the challange. Killing a deer is very easy, it is getting the chance that is the challenge

grousehunter · « **Reply #56 on:** June 07, 2006, 04:06:33 PM »

I live in western Pa. and centerfire is the only thing legal! when we hear a 22 or 17 being shot at 10 pm, we know what has happened! it is a dead deer or a wounded one that'll not make it to hunting season! but I would not use anything less that a 243 and alwys would want the shot carefully placed! someone posted here about a shot from the rear! (1 that any reponsible hunter would never take) If you can't make the 1st one count! do/nt take it!!!!!!!!!!

Cheesehead · « **Reply #57 on:** June 07, 2006, 05:06:53 PM »

Say grouse hunter

Thanks for the flame and the insult. I am not irresponsible. I have taken giant white tail bucks at extreme angles with my 7 mag and have NEVER lost a deer. What next. Am I going to be called a liar. I think three dimensionally, deer are not flat targets. I get a huge laugh at people that prop them selves up as PUREISTS at anybody's expense. This reminds me of the many deer hunting/shooting tv shows, OH NO, DONT SHOOT UNTIL THE DEER TAKES ONE MORE STEP AND IS PERFECTLY BROADSIDE.

Your new friend

Cheese

Game_Stalker · « **Reply #58 on:** June 07, 2006, 06:14:26 PM »

cheesehead, I have to partially agree with grouse on the butt shot. I can't see that as being a shot I would take. Not because I don't think it's ethical, or that I doubt my skill as a marksman, but because I have no way of knowing how that bullet will react to so much flesh. Relating this to a game of pool, yeah, I can take that of-chance shot towards the far corner of the table, but if I don't have to, I won't.

On the other hand, I have to tip my hat to anyone who has the experience to do this and consistantly "finish the job." If ballistic gel weren't so freaking expensive, I would definitely become confident enough to attempt such a shot. But, until then, I'll pick my shots and let you guys have all the monster bucks. I'm in it for the meat, not the decor.

Judson · « **Reply #59 on:** June 09, 2006, 10:26:34 AM »

Other then the fact that I like the big guns I build for my self like my .450 # 2 Nitro what cheese said is why I hunt deer at times with an elephant gun you know. I know how the bullet will react to all that meat. It will expand well ang go stem to stern with ease and I will have an exit hole. Blood trailing is easy, you just walk up to the deer where he was when you shot, that is where he is most times, other times they take a jump or two.

The cartridge on the left is a .308 next the .366DGW and on the left the good old .416 Rigby. (if this picture comes out)