I don't know much, but I do know this....

[NimrodRx]

I've hunted ever since I can remember.  The thing is, it's always been with a shotgun.  I live in mid-Michigan and rifles aren't allow for whitetail.  

I own only three rifles.  One is a Ruger M-77, 22-250.  After putting a 3 lb Timney trigger on it - I absoulutely love it.   Awesome rifle.  I take woodchucks at amazing (to me) distances.  

The other two are .22's.  A browning semi-auto (Belgian made) my dad left me and a Marlin Model 60 that I found in the woods when I was a kid.  Some coon hunter is probably still cussing himself out over that one.  "Now, which tree did I lean that gun against???"  

Anyway, I'm to the point in my life where I'm going to be able to do some traveling for some hunts and I'm in need of a rifle.

As I said, I don't know much, but I know this...

I like bolts.  Even my slug gun is a bolt (Browning 12 ga A-Bolt).  There's just something about a bolt to me.  It's almost romantic....

I also know that I want a .270 cal.  Please don't try talking me into a different cal (30-06, .300. or a .308), that's not the point of this post.  I know there are a lot of other great cals. out there, but I want a .270.

I also know that I'm an accuracy freak.  Accuracy reigns supreme with me.  

My question is this.  Let's say that money isn't much of a factor (within reason - even I have my limits).  Let's say that a guy is looking for the most accurate .270 bolt he can find.  What make and model would he look to?  

I'm likely to only buy one big game/whitetail rifle, and I want to do it right.  I know that fit and feel are the most important, but which make and model are inharently accurate?

I do LOVE my Ruger (after a new trigger).  But I also love my A-Bolt.   That being said, I also like the looks of the Tika, though I've never shouldered one.

Oppinions and testimonials are appreciated.  Let me hear it.

[BackCountry]

NimrodRx,

If you want accuracy and have a high limit for your gun, I would look at HS Precision, you will spend about $2000.00 for one of there rifles, but it comes with a 1/2" moa at a 100 yards guarantee. If you are in the $1000.00 arena, then I would look at Weatherby and Sako, both nice guns. I have owned the Weatherby Mark V 1" moa is easy to get from them. I have just ordered a Sako and have no experience with one yet, I am hoping it is a shooter.

Good Luck.

[Ramrod]

NimrodRx, BackCountry has named some good ones, and I would add the Remington 700 to the list for acurracy. But alot can be said for getting another Ruger, since you are already familiar with it. You already know about the trigger.
Some like to have the most acurate gun they can find, period. But for a big game gun, trading off a little absolute acuraccy for faster handling, lighter weight, reliability, better looks, ect, makes more sense to me.

[beemanbeme]

A Kimber would be nice.

[Greybeard]

Given what you say I'd get one of the custom or semi custom rifles with a 1/2 MOA guarantee. Hill Country Rifles is a good choice. If you like them really light then Ultra Light Arms is a top choice. The others mention would likely do fine.

Chances are good an off the shelf Remington would shoot well under MOA and do it for 1/3 or less the price of the others. I've owned several of the Remington 700 Mtn. Rifles in .270 in various configurations. All have easily beat MOA even with factory ammo. If I were in the market for a .270 personally I'd select the R700 LSS Mtn. Rifle.

[lilabner]

You didn't mention why you want a.270. The biggest virtue of the .270 is that it is flat shooting and effective at long range without beating a person around like the magnums do. If that is your motivation, barrel length is a consideration because the .270 is in its full glory with a 24 inch tube and they are scarce in factory rifles. There is a new Remington 700 out that replaces the ADL. It has a hinged floorplate and 24 inch barrel for the standard calibers. It isn't pretty - dull matte finish and synthetic stock- but has a businesslike appearance like a tactical rifle. It would need trigger tuning for best accuracy. I lean more toward the 30-06 but the .270 is suitable for game up to the size of elk with the proper bullets and is a great cartridge for deer and antelope.

[Donaldo]

Nimrod,
Before you completely make up your mind, may I suggest you try this.  http://www.savagearms.com/116fcsak.htm.  If you don't like the tupperware stock you will still have money left over for a nice wood replacement stock.  Savage gets bashed here and there, but it is generally by people who have either never owned one or haven't owned one in many many years.  But if you are going to spend in the $1000 to $1300 range, I don't think you could beat a Cooper.

[superhornet]

Donaldo is correct..Savage as good as the best and better than the rest for accuracy out of the box...Saves a lot of money and leaves you with enough left to top it with a good Zeiss...

[Lawdog]

NimrodRx,

I also know that I'm an accuracy freak. Accuracy reigns supreme with me.

A another Ruger or a Browning A-Bolt would be a good choice but if you want the most accurate, out of the box rifle being made today then check out the offerings from Savage.  If money is no option then you can still check out the offerings from Sako/Tikka and Weatherby.  Both are known for their accuracy.  Lawdog
 

[tominboise]

I'd sure look at a Weatherby Accumark.  I have three of them and they all shoot great.  Mine are .240 Wby, .280 Rem and .30-06.  I highly recommend them..........

[NimrodRx]

Thanks for the input.  Solid.

I have chosen the .270 for a lot of the reasons mentioned by lilabner.  It just seems like a wonder round to me.  With proper shot placement and load, I can't think of an animal on the continent that it wouldn't be suited for.  realisiticly, I will be mostly using it for deer sized game.  The low recoil, and flat trajectory are a big plus with me.  I also like the idea of being able to go down to say an 80 gr round and using it on yotes.  I am not a fan of mags, or even short mags for that matter.  It's definitely the .270 for me.  I will have to check out that Rem.  Good point with the 24" tube.  

I know the Savage is a shooter.  I haven't entirely ruled it out.  In fact, I shouldered one today (along with a Ruger, Winchester, Mark V, and a Browning).

The Winchester felt real nice.  It was a Featherweight model.  Had a beautiful piece of walnut on it too.

Also found a nice used A-Bolt.  Only had one flaw.  There was a pretty good scratch just below the bolt.  The kinda scratch that looks like somebody had another bolt next to it in the case and kept hitting the Browning with the other bolt when they pulled the gun in and out.  I think some wax would help cover it up, but it is certainly not just on the surface.  They want $469 for the gun.  It does have rings and a rail on it too.  Weaver I think.  Seams like a good price.

Ramrod makes a good point.  This is going to be a hunting gun.  My Ruger already out shoots me.  How much am I really gaining by moving up to something like a Sako?  Will I ever shoot the difference?  Probably not.  

I'm kinda leaning toward the Ruger.  I figure the fact that it comes with scope mounts offsets the cost I'll spend on a Timney trigger - how's that for rational :grin: ?  But I still want to shoulder that Rem.  And then there's that used Browning...   Ahh, I love these kinds of problems :-D

On a side note, tell me, if a company (let's say Ruger for example) is notorious for a design flaw (let's say maybe, triggers) why in the world wouldn't they fix it?  :?

[Gregory]

Thanks for the input.  Solid.


On a side note, tell me, if a company (let's say Ruger for example) is notorious for a design flaw (let's say maybe, triggers) why in the world wouldn't they fix it?  :?

Cause their lawyers told them as soon as you replace the trigger they are off the hook for any liability cases due to accidents.

[Zachary]

Yes,  I like my Remington 700s, but I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Tikkas.  I own a few of them and they are very accurate, and their quality is great.

Zachary

[dave375hh]

Nimrod,
In answer to your question about reoccurring problems. That Ruger your fawning over is noted for having grossly deep throats in all chamberings. They do it to lower pressures and protect themselves from lawsuits. It can and does make make accuracy sometimes hard to find in them. When you complain to the Co. they'll tell you their acc standard is like 2.0 to 3.0 inches. In my opinion a rifle that shoots 2.0 or larger is BROKEN! I learned this the hard way(expensive) with three Mod.77"s. When I called to complain about my .22 Hornet, the smart@$$ I talked to told me their standard for a hornet was 3.0". When I asked his name he hung up on me. I love my Ruger handguns, but wouldn't take one of their rifles for free.
Given your wants, needs, and budget I'd recommend the Sako 75 stainless/synthetic. They have a MOA or less guarantee right out of the box

[Lawdog]

When you complain to the Co. they'll tell you their acc standard is like 2.0 to 3.0 inches. In my opinion a rifle that shoots 2.0 or larger is BROKEN!

Then stay away from the "Big Green Machine" as their standard is anything around 4"(right out of their mouth).

Zachary,

but I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Tikkas.

They were mentioned.   :-D   Lawdog
 

[JCM]

To me, if money isn't an object, I'd sure like a HS Precision.  Very nice rifles.  I like the idea of a stainless rifle with a teflon coating, 1/2 inch promised accuracy, choose your barrel length, choose your stock color, choose your caliber.....

As was mentioned earlier, it will be around $2200.

Check them out:
http://www.hsprecision.com/new_spr.htm

Good luck with your choice!

JCM

[Old Griz]

:cb2: Another Savage supporter here. Three shots, one little hole at 100 yards with my Savage M10 Police. Had to have a trigger job back when I bought mine, but with the new trigger system they have now that's a thing of the past.

Ya can't beat it for the money. (Actually, it's hard to beat for a lot more money.

[NimrodRx]

It's getting pretty tough to look past the Savage.  Man, can't believe I just said that :-D  :-D   It's not the prettiest gun in the lot, but at that price, I would still have enough coin left over for that 28 ga Citori that I've been swooning over.

I love a fine piece of iron, but in all reality, this gun is probably going to see limited use - unlike my shotguns.  I'm starting to think that I'm better off putting the money into them.  Especially if these Savages perform like everyone says they do.  

Can't believe I started out thinking I'd end up with a Sako, moved to a Ruger, and now I'm seriously contemplating the Savage  

Then again, that link to HS Precision provided by JCM has got me thinking. :shock:  :shock:   Nice.  Shure would be nice to shoulder one.

[victorcharlie]

I was hoping someone would mention the savage.......While not the prettiest gun in my safe, it's one of my best shooters.......If you just want a working gun at a fair price that's a great shooter, you can't beat the savage!

[Ramrod]

One thing though, NimrodRx, looking at that Savage next to your Ruger might make you an even bigger fan of the Ruger. Yes, the Savage might be a little more accurate, but can you live with the looks. I knew an oldtimer who would say it's like divorcing Elizabeth Taylor and marrying Phyllis Diller.
No offense meant VC. I must say, though, even Savage must be getting the message. I just saw a picture of the 2005 model 114 in this months American Rifleman. Looks like they are trying real hard to make it look good.

[tcforec]

I know you said .270 and I would highly recommend the Tikka T-3 (extremely accurate out of the box), but it comes with a 22 inch barrel I believe.

My T-3 in .308 was recalled and they did not have anymore in inventory so I opted for the .270 short mag. I have to say that I am absolutely in love with this rifle. It's light to carry but kicks less than my .308 did(and noticeably less than my friend's 64' winchester in standard .270). She was printing a .5 in out of the box at 100 yards and the deer don't run, they drop. I have less than $700 in that and a Burris Fullfield II and you couldn't take it from me.

[NimrodRx]

Actually, I know less than I did two weeks ago... :?  :?   The more I look at ballistic coefficients and trajectory, the more I start leaning toward a .308  Again, I'm looking at buying a rifle that will suit Michigan whitetail as well as anything that I may some day take a hunt for.  i.e western elk and (should I be so lucky) maybe a northern moose.  

It just seems like I'm giving up very little in terms of trajectory with the 308 and gettting a lot more in terms of "whoompf."  

That being said, the Sako 75 is now the rifle to beat.  I know the Savage will shoot, but, well, I just can't get used to the looks of it.

Funny, when I started this post, I knew the cal and just couldn't decide on the make and model.  Now, I "think" I know the make and model and am just uncertain about the cal......

[BackCountry]

NimrodRx,
I went through exactly what you are experiencing about 3 weeks ago. I ended up ordering a grey laminate stainless Sako 75 in 7wsm. I use to be a strong advocate for the 30-06, and don't get me wrong I still like it, but the last 5 years I have been shooting either the 7mm rem. or the 7mm wby. I have had great results with them and have turned into a 7mm fan. I would not feel under gunned against any of the animals you mentioned, and there is a lot of bullet configurations for the 7mm. What I like about the 7mm over the 270 is you can get heavier bullets for it. If I was to get a 270 it would definetley be in wsm. Good luck with your decision, and remember to make it your decision, there are a lot of good guns and loads out there enjoy looking.

[poncaguy]

You'll be very happy with a 270 for sure. Only caliber I found  that I like better is 270WSM. Have a Model 70 Super Shadow Winchester, a $400 Wally World gun that shoots less than an inch at 100 yards.
 I've had Rem 700's, Savages and Rugers in 30-06, 308, 7mmRem Mag, 6mm Rem and 270's. All good rifles and the 270 was always my favorite by far for deer until the 270WSM came out. :grin:

[Pinebark]

I have good luck with the Browning A-bolt. I have a few over the years and they have served me well.

[Old Griz]

:cb2: A gentleman I teach with grew up in Alaska and took his first moose (at age 14) with a .30-30. In Europe, they hunt elk with 6.5x55s all the time. I wouldn't be too scared to hunt 'em with a 270. People have sure done it with a lot less. Shot placement. Shot placement. Shot placement.

[earschplitinloudenboomer]

I used to have the issue of  Field and Stream where Phyllis Diller did the centerfold for them. Guys...she cleans up real nice!

[Buckfever]

Love my Tikkas, all 3.  6.5-55, 308, 223 Continental Varmint.  They just flat shoot right out of the box.  That has boosted my confidence way above where it was before.  I am a Wood and Blue guy and the wood on them is great.  The Tikka is less weight than the Sako, also a great gun!.
While the 308 doesn't have the sex appeal of some of the other calibers it has the bullet and weight selection and certianly has the accuracy in an easy to carry package.  This gets to be all about personal preference and that means no one is wrong for what they like.  Buckfever

[Squeeze]

Well if you still want that Citori 28ga, and you can't live with the looks of the Savage,
then look at Tikkas.  They are not that much more money over the Savage, and
I can tell no difference in the average accuracy of these rifles.  I have two Tikkas,
and two Savages.  All 4 guns are sub MOA.  I have a TIkka Whitetail Hunter SS/Lam,
in 25-06Rem, a Tikka T-3 blued/syn, in .223 Rem., a Savage 16 ss/syn, in .22-250 Rem,
and a Savage Striker in .308 Win.  Yes the Tikkas have more style, and a very
smooth bolt, and very good fit and finish, but when I walk down to the targets,
after firing groups from these rifles, I can see very little difference.  My next two
rifle purchases will be a .20 cal, and a .338 WM.  For the .338 WM, I couldn't tell
you which rifle I will end up with, but it will be a Tikka, or a Savage.  For the .20 cal,
I will probably buy an old Savage, and re-barrel it, re-stock it, and drop in a
aftermarket trigger.  That is one big advantage of the Savage.  It is so simple
to re-barrel, headspace, and even change bolt faces, that it makes an excellent
gun to fool around with for wildcats.  

Since I think I am reading that you want a stylish rifle, then rather than spend
the money for a Sako, just buy a Tikka, which has a Sako barrel, and put the
savings towards that Citori...Nice choice by the way.  I have a 28 gauge,
Red Label, that I won at a DU banquet.  I love that little gun for grouse, and
woodcock.  Someday, I will add a Citori 20 gauge, to the scattergun collection,
for pheasants, and long flushing grouse conditions.

Squeeze.

[Big Paulie]

Nimrod,

   Your analysis is correct.  The .270 is a fine cartridge.  However, as an all around cartridge, particularly on the higher end, the .308 Winchester is superior.  (Consider especially that you can get excellent factory loads in 180 grain Barnes and Nosler Partition Bullets.)

  The .270 has a good reputation for being extremely "flat shooting", and it is.  But, take a look at the ballistic charts.  I think that if you are shooting factory ammo, 150 grain bullets, and your rifle is sighted in for 200 yards, then at 300 yards, the .270 shoots only about 7/10ths of an inch flatter than the .308.  (In other words, the .308 only drops 7/10ths of an inch more at 300 yards than the .270 !)  In the real world of hunting, this is totally and absolutely insignificant.    The wind, the steadiness of your hand, and the quality of your barrell will have alot more effect than 7/10ths of any inch on your groups at that distance.

   The .308 Winchester is an amazing round.  It gives you about 95% of the foot pounds of energy of the 30-06, but has only about 70% of the foot pounds or recoil!  It is also one of the most inherently accurate rounds ever invented.     Check out the charts.

   I don't mean to knock the .270, but if your concern is more with covering the upper end of the big game spectrum  (such as Elk, Moose etc.), then the .308 with the 180 grain bullet is a better choice than the .270 with the 150 grain bullet.    If your concern is more towards covering the middle and lower end of big game, then the .270 is a fine choice.  Sure, in the hands of an expert shooter,  it can and does take Elk cleanly.  (Don't hit that shoulder bone though).  But, given a choice, I would opt for the .308

  Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Paul Amos