Source for Zinc? (FOUND ONE !!!)

[Evil Dog]

The local scrap yards don't seem to have any.  Where is a good source for zinc?  Hopefully on the west coast so that shipping doesn't kill me.

[CAV Trooper]

I couldn't find anything in your area of the country so shipping will be a factor but here's a possible source:

http://www.alliedmetalcompany.com

What you probably want though is zinc alloy scrap from a die casting operation. Try a google search.

[ShadowMover]

Most of the new pennies are 99.9% zinc. They just have a thin flash coat of copper on them. Take a file and nick the edge of a penny and hold it in a propane or MAPP torch for a few seconds, and all the zinc will melt and run out of the hole. I don't know what year they started doing it but you can find out.  I don't know how many pennies it takes to make a pound, but you won't have to pay for shipping, and the price won't go up ;-). As soon as you get a pot of them melted you should skim off the empty copper shells so they won't dissolve and make a diluted brass. Another material that you can melt in a lead pot is "die cast" or "pot metal" They used to make a lot of door handles and carburetors out of it. I think it's an Aluminum and Zinc alloy. It's getting hard to find, and it looks almost like aluminum. Try metal recyclers and auto recycler yards.

The die cast will melt in the plumber's lead pots, fired by gasoline or propane. I'm not sure it will in the electric ones.

[GGaskill]

From 1728 � Software � Systems, we have "Well, an interesting change took place in 1982. Prior to that year, pennies were 95% Copper and 5% zinc. After 1982 the composition became 97.6% zinc and 2.4% copper. (1982 pennies can be either one of these. Oh and in 1943 pennies were made of a steel & zinc combination but we won't concern ourselves with those). "

Also from there, we have
"Melting Point of Copper = 1,083°Celsius (=1,981°Farenheit)
Melting Point of Zinc = 419.6°Celsius (=787°Farenheit)

As we can see from above, there is a huge difference between the melting point of zinc and copper. So much of a difference that a zinc penny can be melted in a Bunsen burner but a copper penny cannot."

[Cat Whisperer]

Zinc is probably the most common metal past steel.  Of course finding a source close to you is THE issue.

I've found that there are machine shops that do regular business with metal suppliers & are often amiable to ordering metal for customers.  That often pays off in shipping costs if it is coincidental with their normal order for steel.

[Robert]

Ok...I am probably sticking my nose where it don't belong...don't know what you want the zinc for...but as previously suggested.....torching pennies....could get you really really sick.  I forget what it produces..but it is a toxic gas and can really mess you up bad.  Be careful.

[GGaskill]

Zinc oxide fumes.  From http://www.weldweb.com/safety.php?articleID=8:
 
Zinc oxide fumes cause a flu-like illness called Metal Fume Fever. Symptoms of Metal Fume Fever include headache, fever, chills, muscle aches, thirst, nausea, vomiting, chest soreness, fatigue, gastrointestinal pain, weakness, and tiredness. The symptoms usually start several hours after exposure; the attack may last 6 to 24 hours. Complete recovery generally occurs without intervention within 24 to 48 hours. Metal Fume Fever is more likely to occur after a period away from the job (after weekends or vacations). High levels of exposure may cause a metallic or sweet taste in the mouth, dry and irritated throat, thirst, and coughing at the time of the exposure. Several hours after exposure, a low-grade fever (seldom higher than 102º F or 39º C). Then comes sweating and chills before temperature returns to normal in 1 to 4 hours. If you encounter these symptoms, contact a physician and have a medical examination / evaluation. There is no information in the literature regarding the effects of long-term exposure to zinc oxide fumes.
 
Electric melting will cause fewer fumes because of lower temperatures involved versus flame melting.  Be sure to have a fume hood that exhausts out of doors when melting zinc.

[Robert]

Thank You for the back-up.  That all sounds pretty technical...I just felt like I was going to die.  But the time frame is about right...2 days.  I was fooling around trying to melt copper (what I thought pennies were made of)  I was torching one in my lead dipper and all of a sudden it erupted into a horrible sulfuric-looking mess that kept growing and spouted strange stingy threads of goo into the air that floated all around my shop like that 'Silly String' that comes in aresol cans.....but it just floated mysteriously in the air.  I ran out of the shop pretty quick, but it still had me really messed up for a long time.

[Cat Whisperer]

Thank You for the back-up.  That all sounds pretty technical...I just felt like I was going to die.  But the time frame is about right...2 days.  I was fooling around trying to melt copper (what I thought pennies were made of)  I was torching one in my lead dipper and all of a sudden it erupted into a horrible sulfuric-looking mess that kept growing and spouted strange stingy threads of goo into the air that floated all around my shop like that 'Silly String' that comes in aresol cans.....but it just floated mysteriously in the air.  I ran out of the shop pretty quick, but it still had me really messed up for a long time.

Robert -
GGaskill provided a very good explanaiton.  Your words of caution are ALWAYS welcome.

As a rule of life, I like to see (posted here) things that are a) Safe; b) Legal; and c) FUN.  In that order.  Experiences and humor to the contrary are sometimes the best teachers.

[Will Bison]

Evil Dog;

As you have noted zinc is getting harder to find. I just scored a few hundred ponds of it when I pulled an ancient refrigeration unit out of an old saloon. Virtually the entire unit was zinc castings. HOT DOG! Cannon balls.

The local scrap yard in Reno has some zinc but it appears to be an alloy of aluminium/zinc, quite common now. I have not tried the stuff, it might work but would be lighter obviously and have a higher melt point.

But back to the refer unit. The Fire Chief and I were trying to get the contraption out of the basement when something broke. We heard a hissing sound and then the ammonia hit us. Lemme tell ya, ya ain't seen a couple of old timers move that fast in awhile. We even beat the employees out who were working on the street level. The Hazmat Boys sure ribbed us after they got the place ventilated.

[CU_Cannon]

Use the old welders trick.  After welding or cutting galvanized steel drink a glass of milk or better yet butter milk.   It will make you feel much better.  I think there is something about the combination of fat and lactic acid that helps.  I'm assuming it would work the same for the fumes from casting zinc also.

[GGaskill]

There used to be two model railroad equipment manufacturers in the LA area (Model Die Casting/Roundhouse and Athearn) who did lots of diecast parts and must have had local suppliers.  I can't find a phone number for Athearn (their email address is help@athearn.com) but MDC has moved to Carson City; their phone number is 1 - 775 - 884-4388; you might be able to get an LA source from them.  MDC url is mdcroundhouse.com.

[Robert]

OK.  I stuck my nose in you guysess business....but now it is bugging the hecck out of me....Why Zinck for cannon-balls?  I missed something.  I play around with a little 50 cal cannon, and enjoy reading about the cannon-ball mortars...what what in **** iss Zink for? (did I spellthat?)

[Evil Dog]

Hi Robert....  a fair question.  For my particular cannon, a 2 1/4" ball cast from wheelweight will weigh right at 2 1/2 pounds.  My 225 pound cannon will recoil between 18" and 24" with a charge of 400gr GOEX Fg.  400gr is really a pretty modest charge for this size cannon.  Were I to cast the same 2 1/4" ball from zinc, it should weigh closer to 1 1/2 pounds.  With the same modest powder charge I would be getting a lot higher velocity and no doubt a lot less recoil due to the lighter weight ball.  That help explain it?

[Double D]

Most solid cannon balls  were solid iron balls.  Given two balls of the same diameter, one of iron and one of lead,  the lead ball is going to be heavier. The lead is going take more energy to get started. It can and will cause higher pressures particularly in larger bore cannons.

Zinc is fairly cheap and is more easily cast than iron.  Zinc's lesser mass also helps keep pressures down when fired.

Maximum recommended charge and projectile weight  for a 2.3 inch diameter smoothbore cannon is 4.60 oz (2012 gr.) by weight of GOEX Cannon grade with a 24 ounce projectile.   E.D. has a substantially reduced load with a very heavy ball for bore size and he still gets a great deal of recoil.  Keep  in mind all the recoil is transmitted through the trunnions and into the carriage.   Trunnions and carriages can take a beating even with these light loads with heavy balls.

[Cat Whisperer]

OK.  I stuck my nose in you guysess business....but now it is bugging the hecck out of me....Why Zinck for cannon-balls?  I missed something.  I play around with a little 50 cal cannon, and enjoy reading about the cannon-ball mortars...what what in **** iss Zink for? (did I spellthat?)

Zinc and cast iron have just about the same specific gravity (zinc is just a little less dense) - so it weighs about the same as CI.  It is very easy to cast, melts at a lower temperature than aluminum which melts at a lower themerature than iron or steel.  It does shrink a lot, leaving cavities or voids.  It is not as strong nor as hard as iron.  When used commercially it is usually moulded into precisely made moulds under pressure.  It is VERY common in our everyday life - complex castings as carburetors and cheap pots and pans (hence the nickname 'pot metal') screen-door handles are just a few applications.

[Robert]

Thank You.

[GGaskill]

Evil Dog has located a source of zinc in the LA area.  He is going to break a pallet which may make it cost more per pound than buying a whole pallet, so I thought I would ask if anyone else is interested in buying some zinc.  We could ship it in the USPS $7.70 boxes and really get them mad. :grin:   Current price is $1.25 a pound; may be less if we split a one ton pallet.  I'll call the vendor Monday for the whole pallet price.  Post replies in this thread if you are interested.

[CAV Trooper]

Guys,

I got this from the Steen Cannon web page. Not sure how up to date the price is:

Zinc (For making projectiles):

Mid America Alloys LLC
2205 - TN Industrial Road
P.O. Box 1304
Sapulupa, OK 74067
Ph. (918) 224-3446 Contact: Todd
Last price was $.75 a pound and it came in 22 pound ingots