Looking for Thor's hammer

[mitchell]

i have a friend that used to be a gunsmith in his younger years and he has offered to show me how to build custom mausers. well we just started one (a 22-250) and i'm already thinking about the next.i want a gun for whitetail deer that kills them good (bang flop). i'm thinking about the 338-06 but i really just know. my maximum range is about 400 yards so it needs to be a cartridge with a little power behind it. just to keep the build easy the cartridge will have to have a bolt face of .473 . so what do you guys think would fit the bill??

338-06??

280rem??

30-06 or the 30-06ai

any others??? would do you think ?? i'll be handloading for whatever i get so price of ammo and availably of ammo is not a problem

[Zachary]

i want a gun for whitetail deer that kills them good (bang flop).

Then you shouldn't look at guns - you should look at shot placement. :wink:

As for your intended choices, if the gun is for deer hunting, and since you will reload, I would say the .280.  The .338-06 is way too much gun and the trajectory is not as flat, and the .30-06AI is a close second.

Zachary

[Gregory]

There would be nothing wrong with the good ole 270 either if you want to add it to your list.

[mitchell]

There would be nothing wrong with the good ole 270 either if you want to add it to your list.

well then heck yeah its on the list keep em comming guys.

P.S. as for shot placment it will be right behind the shoulder i lke to keep the meat.

i'm kind of leaning toward the 338-06 and a 180gr nosler BT. what do you think???

[Dave in WV]

Since you seem to want something a little different how about the 280AI? About the same as a 7mm Rem mag using a 24" barrel for both.

[Spyro Andes]

As for the 338-06, the Nosler 180 gr Ballistic Tip is a flat out killer on deer sized game with good shot placement.

What was interesting is after reading the title of your thread, Thor's Hammer, I would have sworn that this was going to be a discussion of the 9.3x62

Anyway, based on your long range needs, I'd build a 6.5-06 AI.

[Thebear_78]

Either the 338/06 or 35 whelen.

[riddleofsteel]

Funny you should ask. This rifle was named Mjolnir (Thor's Hammer) by a rather poetic friend of mine after he observed it perform a bang-flop on a white tail buck standing at 350 long paces from my tower stand. The 117 grain Hornady SPBT Interlock hit him just behind the front shoulder and ruined his neck base, both lungs, and blew out of the other side.

Remington Sendero 25-06 with Leupold Vari X III



I would agree that if you are building you own rifle I would go with the 6.5 bore for better bullet selection. It would be hard to beat a 6.5-06 improved or not. I used to shoot with a guy that had a custom Remington 700 in 6.5-06 AI. I was shooting my 25-06 Sendero at that time. We spent some weekends thinning the ground hog population in pastures and fields in southern Virgina. I guess our rifle skills were about even from what I saw at the target range. To be honest I saw no real advantage between the two rifles. We also did some deer hunting with the same rifles but with different loads and of course not from the same stands. However, from his accounts I don't think he had any real long range advantage over my 25-06 except a better bullet weight selection.

[Ramrod]

What Zachary said. The three most important factors for an instant kill are shot placement, shot placement, and shot placement. I would add that more power only helps when the shot placement is off. More velocity really only helps with shot placement.

[Gregory]

i have a friend that used to be a gunsmith in his younger years and he has offered to show me how to build custom mausers. well we just started one (a 22-250) and i'm already thinking about the next.

mitchell

I would highly recommend that you and your friend build one more "practice" gun before you build yours.  A 7x57 on a lefty Charles Daly action with a 23" #3 contour barrel in a lone wolf sythetic stock.  I'll give you $500 for the "practice" gun when your done.
 

[Don Fischer]

Well I tend to believe there are six most important factor's: shot placement, bullet selection, shot placement, bullet selection, shot placement and bullet selection. In my experience the lighter end of suitable game bullet's for caliber are quicker killer's. They also cause more distruction inside the game.

In the 25-06 my favorite bullet is the 117 gr but I've used the 100 gr and found it a more sudden killer. My old 7mm rem mag thrived on 160 gr bullet's but properly placed 140 class bullet's killed like lighting. I've seen this in all cartridges I used.

In the end, shot placement andbullet selection is everything.

[mitchell]

well on shot placement i already said right behind the shoulder i want to keep as much meat as i can . i know that right now i have a308 that if i put through both shoulders it will drop deer but i'm not wanting to trash all that meat. so with shot placement being right behind the shoulder what cartridge do you think will give me that "bang flop" kill every body likes?

i was wanting a 300 win mag but being that i'm only half way through my first build i  think i want to keep it simple for right now.

and i'm only talking about 400 or so yards guys this doesn't need to be a match gun just about MOA

[beemanbeme]

.280   You say you've a .308 and you can't get them down with that??  I hate to tell you but a double lung shot ain't gonna slam the deer down which seems what you're after.  A double lung shot deer can run quite a distance before he realizes he's dead.  Also, a double lung shot deer if the hit is high can run for quite a ways without leaving a blood trail as the blood is puddling inside of the chest cavity.  I once shot a white tail with a 12 gauge shotgun using a rifled slug.  The deer slammed to the ground, rolled over and came up running.  One continuous motion.  I followed the deer for @100 yards.  I didn't need to track it as it was spraying blood waist high on the brush.  When I found the deer, the sternum was actually hanging loose and the chest cavity was gaping open with his heart and one lung hanging outside of the hole.  It was one of the most incredible things I've ever seen.
Also, I'll tell you what.  Get you a deer silhouette target and set it up and back off 400 yards and take a look at it.  Then you'll see that there's no such thing a "just a 400 yard" shot at deer.

[Graybeard]

Check under Mythology in the library.  :-D

[mitchell]

i new i had it coming form somebody. but of all people the owner

[Ramrod]

Well I tend to believe there are six most important factor's: shot placement, bullet selection, shot placement, bullet selection, shot placement and bullet selection. In my experience the lighter end of suitable game bullet's for caliber are quicker killer's. They also cause more distruction inside the game.

In the 25-06 my favorite bullet is the 117 gr but I've used the 100 gr and found it a more sudden killer. My old 7mm rem mag thrived on 160 gr bullet's but properly placed 140 class bullet's killed like lighting. I've seen this in all cartridges I used.

In the end, shot placement andbullet selection is everything.

I have to agree, but there is also a dilema here. It is the reason there is not a real "Hammer of Thor". The lighter weight bullets are usually thin jacketed, and at high velocity do give quicker kills when you get a behind the shoulder shot. But they sometimes fail miserably if they hit much bone, or you have to take a quartering away shot. So be prepared to pass up some shots.
The heavier slugs can penetrate clear through from any angle, because they are usually stouter, and much slower to expand. So, while not as quick a killer, they are more certain to cause death, when you have to take the shot you are presented with.

P.S. The guys who shoot deer at 400 yards are the same ones who catch the 5 pound sunfish, if you know what I mean.
 (I know, it's bream, can't help it, I'm a yankee)

[Sigma]

The lighter weight bullets are usually thin jacketed, and at high velocity do give quicker kills when you get a behind the shoulder shot. But they sometimes fail miserably if they hit much bone, or you have to take a quartering away shot. So be prepared to pass up some shots.
The heavier slugs can penetrate clear through from any angle, because they are usually stouter, and much slower to expand. So, while not as quick a killer, they are more certain to cause death, when you have to take the shot you are presented with.

I agree with Ramrod. There is no perfect Thor's hammer. Bullets need to be matched to the anticipated amount of resistance a game animal offers. Distance is always a variable which can only be estimated - it is the hunter's responsibility to know when to refrain from taking a shot.

Regards

[riddleofsteel]

http://realindy.com/recordfish.htm
 

[Judson]

A deer hit on the fringes is still going no matter what you hit it with!    Bullet placement is every thing.     If you really want BANG FLOP with good placement then check out the 7mm STW with 175 grain bullets like the Nosler Partitions, or if you really want BANG FLOP check out the .366DGW with 250 grain Nosler ballistic Tips!!!!!    It is on page 201 of cartridges of the world, tenth edition

[RaySendero]

There would be nothing wrong with the good ole 270 either if you want to add it to your list.

Most impressive "Bang Flop" I ever saw was with a 270 Winchester.  Actually looked like it was hit by an upper cut with Thor's Hammer!

[Don Fischer]

Befor I get into this to far, let me say I certainly can't recomend this bullet/cartridge combination for deer. I mention this only because I believe it show's what happens when a light, fast, explosive bullet get's into the heart lung area of a deer.

I shot a deer last year with a 75gr V-Max out of a 243 win doing 3365fps muzzle velocity. The bullet managed to go between two rib's just behind the shoulder at about 200 yds. I'ed hoped the range might help slow the bullet down and keep it together. That deer's chest cavity looked like jello and I've NEVER seen a deer go down like that! Light for cartridge bullet's that get inside are bomb's, but I won't do that again. Had that bullet hit even a small bone, it never would have gotten inside. I shouldn't have done it that time.

[Wlscott]

Looking for Thor's hammer

I have a lab tech that works for me named Thor.  I'll ask him if you can borrow his :-D

[1911crazy]

The 25-06 is becomming a very popular caliber.  The 6,5 and 7mm are two more very good rounds too it sounds like 3 more builds are in order??
I like the smaller bore guns because there so "shootable"  I can shoot themall day long and not have to stop the car on the way home and pick up my shoulder. :lol:
I have an extra 7mm mauser that i'm thinking of building with a barrel caliber/change too.                                               BigBill

There's only one "Thor's Hammer" its my 338win.mag. it just picks up those blackbears and slamms them down with a "dead sounding loud thud" never had to look for a shot one yet they stay where you poke'm for some reason w/4,000ft.lbs. @ the muzzle and 2,800ft.lbs.@ 200yds it doesn't lack in power.  2,800ft.lbs. thats the muzzle energy of an '06 @ 200yds. thast a worse hit than "Mean Joe Green"!!! :eek:

[buffalobob]

I very quickly got tired of splintered bone and mangled  meat from using a 7mm Wby on whitetails so I went and got an FN mauser action out of he cabinet.  The action now has a 26" Shilen barrel in 240 Wby with timmney trigger and Fajen stock.

The 240 Wby fits the bolt face and action perfectly.  It has good energy well beyond 400 yds and with Nosler partitions or Barnes XLC it will break bones and still penetrate on whitetails.  It does take some more effort to ensure shot placement but with the fast and flat shooting bullets the longer shoots are probably easier than some large diameter slow bullet.  And if you get bored while deer hunting you can always take that 500 yard shot at the noisy crow with  the 240.

As others have suggested, the 25-06 is a really fine antelope /mule deer cartridge and will also fit the bolt face and action.  It has a little more range than the 240 and will also reach out there and say hello to Mr. Coyote or Mr. Crow as far as you can see him.

[1911crazy]

buffalobob;  Your exactly right about the damage that big guns can do one bear we shot it broke 4 or 5 ribs on the exit and i could see the vapor hole comming out of the exit hole too from where we shot her.  Smaller bore guns do less damage to the meat and its all about the first shot placement too plus the smaller guns are less punishment on the body when we touch them off too.                                BigBill

[beemanbeme]

The theory that "magnums in and of themselves" cause too much meat damage is like most urban myths that have a small kernel of truth but a great deal of conjecture and plain old BS.  
If you get you a Holijesuslookatthis boomer, and then you select some inappropiate, light for calibre bullet and drive it at some sort of boyhowdylookwhatIcan do speed, the damage is gonna be impressive.  But, if you match the bullet with the calibre, you won't have near the problems.   Hunting in Col and Wy for antelope and mulies, if elk were on the menu, I would still take one rifle.  Usually a 300WM or a 7RM.  Loaded with an elk bullet (NP's or Grand Slams) in either 200gr or 160gr respectively.  @2900-3000fps.  I would use the rifle of choice to shoot antelope and mule deer and elk.  If anything, the Grand Slams were a bit tough for shooting antelope.  The bullets would sort of pencil thru without a lot of expansion.  They still killed handily if you aimed for the exit hole.  If you shoot a mulie with a .300WM loaded with a 200 gr NP, the damage is little different than a .280.
Often these "bullet failures" are really hunter failures to select a proper bullet for the job.

[poncaguy]

I've been impressed by the 270 WSM, and before it the standard 270. This year, dropped a 6 point at 351 steps with the WSM, front shoulder destroyed, heart and lungs jelly.

[Don Fischer]

Beemanmeme has got it right. Although I'm not a fan of magnum's, been there, it always comes down to bullet's. The thing to remember about the magnums is not their ability at long range but rather their ability to deliver abnormal power at normal range.

[JC]

I have shot several deer with a 338/06 and the 180 nosler. It works like a mean killing machine. While it was not a ( bang, thump ) kill. The short blood trail that it left was like a side walk and not a trail. Shot placement was behind the shoulder . Took out two hearts and they both went about 10 - 20 yards. I get to hunt west TX sometimes so I get hunt from a blind. I have also shot deer in the neck with a Ruger 1 in 2506 and hit him in the neck. He went straight down. My thors hammer is the 338 LM with a 225 SST. Slight overkill though, but my frying pan doesn't know the difference.  You might consider the 7/08 also. My two cents! :sniper:

[longwalker]

Killed three deer this winter with 338-06. Two were good shots taken on standing deer basically broad side both when down like a sack of seed. The third was a finishing shot on a gut shot deer running across a soybean field right toward me. I caught the deer at the base of the neck just above the spine with a 200 grain hotcore bullet. Good Night ! The deer was finished before it hit the ground. The hunter came and collected the deer although I expect he would have left it had I not been there. I thanked him for following up on his shot and helped him field dress it. He wanted to know how you shoot a running deer. I told him you do everything you can not to. Because you can end up with this kind of mess.

The 338 caliber makes a big hole with blood passing on both sides. All three dropped where they were. If a larger animal had taken these hits, tracking would be pretty simple. The neck shot did not yield much blood. If there is a valid reason for bigger guns it is for the unexpected circumstances you come across in the field.

The only difference between adventure and vacation is uncertainty.

longwalker