Author Topic: Gun/s for Alaska's ? (Read 2955 times)

DelGue · « **on:** February 05, 2005, 09:20:55 AM »

What gun/s and caliber/s, do you think would be apporiate to carry while exploring the remote areas of Alaska?

Traveling by car, plane, and/or foot.

Why?

Dand · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2005, 10:23:18 AM »

If you mean for self defense the short quick answer would be a 30-06 or larger rifle, or 12 ga pump with premium slugs. For casual wandering I wouldn't exclude a 270, 308 or similar, if that's what you happen to have. Remember weight and bulk become a real factor if you are bucking much brush or climbing.

For most convenience a 44 mag or larger hand gun.

Most important would be your ability to shoot well what ever you carry.

Second, while it can be a good idea to carry a self defence gun it is not always necessary - this "need" gets way overblown in AK. As a kid we snicker spotting the Cheechakos with their 12 inch bowie knife and 44 mag on the hip with a full cartridge belt and shouldering a monster mag rifle just togo to the camp ground outhouse. A litte discretion in use and carry is encouraged - especially in higher use public areas.

Probably the single most versitile weapon is a 12 ga. Can be used for small game and waterfowl, self defense, and properly rigged even for some big game hunting. Pump would probably be first choice for me.

Now if you expect to intentionally go into hazardous country, remote salmon streams at spawning time or hunt bear you can explore this forum for the endless discussions on the topic.

Dand · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2005, 10:28:15 AM »

one more thought,

I think the two most important self defense items for most of Alaska in the warm seasons are a head net and good bug repellent with 25%-35% deet. I haven't found the 100% deet to be any better for me and it can really trash plastics and gun stock finishes.

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #3 on:** February 06, 2005, 07:04:42 AM »

Dand's advice is very good. The argument over what to carry is almost as old as "What came first the chicken or the egg."

I would not feel underarmed anywhere with a 12 gauge shotgun and quality slugs.

It is the gun the settlers carried when traveling out west for good reason. Versitility!

Sourdough · « **Reply #4 on:** February 06, 2005, 08:25:40 PM »

12ga Pump, unless you're hunting.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #5 on:** February 14, 2005, 12:39:42 PM »

A 12ga with slug's work's fine. I lived up there for several year's and once the "I don't wanna get ate" fear left me, I quite often carried no more than a camera. It is amazing how the mention of Alaska conjure's up vision's of danger. Yet the fearcest animal in Alaska is the grizzly bear. There are grizzly's in Yellowstone and Glaicer Park's. What weapon do you carry there?

Don Fischer · « **Reply #6 on:** February 14, 2005, 12:41:33 PM »

A 12ga with slug's work's fine. I lived up there for several year's and once the "I don't wanna get ate" fear left me, I quite often carried no more than a camera. It is amazing how the mention of Alaska conjure's up vision's of danger. Yet the fearcest animal in Alaska is the grizzly bear. There are grizzly's in Yellowstone and Glaicer Park's. What weapon do you carry there? When I did hunt in Alaska, I carried a 308 with 180gr Hornady's, perhap's a bit undergunned, but I never got ate!

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 14, 2005, 01:25:13 PM »

4" 44mag in a chest holster and a Stainless Guide gun in 45/70. If you are just talking about a gun behind the seat for insidental game its hard to go wrong with a bolt 06 or 35 whelen.

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #8 on:** February 14, 2005, 04:13:27 PM »

Thebear_78

Quote

or 35 whelen.

There you go again flaunting the .35 Whelen again. Probably why I own two.

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 14, 2005, 04:53:38 PM »

Once the word gets out there will be a 35 whelen in every gun safe. Not a better alaskan big game rifle.

DelGue · « **Reply #10 on:** February 14, 2005, 05:13:59 PM »

T.B.78

I like the .35 Whelen (& .338-06). I use them for hunting.

Wasn't the .35 Whelen the cartridge Old Elmer Keith used when he got into a dispute with a Griz way back when, and the Griz almost stomped Elmer?

I know the bullets today are better than what Elmer used, but knowing him, his .35 Whelen must have had a 900 grain bullet :eek:

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2005, 07:41:25 PM »

While I would much rather have my GG 45/70 with 400gr Kodiak custom loaded to 1850fps when faced with a griz the whelen would definately do the trick for hunting them. Lots of griz are killed each year with 06 and 300 win mags and I would take a 250gr bullet out of the whelen at 2500fps over a 220gr 06. The whelen had plenty of thump, but even a 416 or 458 might not stop a charging bear unless you hit him right.

Moose-Hunter · « **Reply #12 on:** February 15, 2005, 05:09:32 PM »

Hard to argue with anyone about the 35 Whelen, but I'd rather have a 358 Norma Mag in my hands.

Sourdough · « **Reply #13 on:** February 17, 2005, 09:19:18 PM »

An awful lot of the older nonresident hunters carry .35 Whelens. More than people realise. They have become recoil shy (due to arthritis it now hurts) as they become older. They have also gotten over the need for the macho (Rambo) image. They are comfortable with and can shoot the .35 Whelen well.

Love the 35s!!!!!!!! Both the .35 Whelen and the .350 Rem Mag.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #14 on:** February 23, 2005, 11:47:10 AM »

Elmer Keith was alway's proud of Elmer Keith. Likely as not the cartridge he used was the 333 OKH.

Greybeard · « **Reply #15 on:** February 24, 2005, 01:33:20 AM »

I keep seeing folks recommending a 12 ga. shotgun. Any of you ever actually shot a bear with such? Sure wouldn't be high on my list but I admit I've never shot a bear with anything and likely never will. But shotguns and slugs are not very good killers of anything. Unless you've got some new slug technology at hand I'd sure not depend on anything I've seen for such self defense purposes. I'd rather use a lever action .35 Remington especially with the Buffalo Bore 220s at 2200 fps. And I want a big bore handgun with me no matter where. Last ditch defense against any and every thing on two or four legs.

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #16 on:** February 24, 2005, 04:06:26 PM »

GB: Not all slugs are created equal. I only carry Brenneke slugs for bears. As you can see the slugs are 600 grains and provide over 3000 fp of energy. Also, if you had one to try, you can not scratch the lead with your fingernail, unlike a Foster slug. They are hardened and designed for dangerous game such as Cape Buffalo.

Fosters should never be used for bears. Way too soft.

The information below is from Brenneke:

Super Magnum 12 / 3 (Gold)
Weight: 1 3/8 oz. 600 grains.
Barrel: rifled only
Range: 100 + yards
Game: large / dangerous

Original BRENNEKE Slug Gold with patented plastic wad
superb accuracy: less then 3 (5 rounds) at 100 yards
flat trajectory
very powerful
special coating to reduce lead fouling in barrel
superb knockdown power
broad ribs for optimum guidance in the barrel

Distance
(yards) Velocity(feet/sec.) Energy(ft. lbs.) Bullet path(inch)
Muzzle 1502 3014 - 2.0
25 1295 2241 + 0.4
50 1136 1724 + 1.6
75 1030 1418 + 1.0
100 955 1219 - 1.5

Optimum Distance for Sighting in: 88 yards

Dand · « **Reply #17 on:** February 26, 2005, 10:44:36 AM »

The 12 ga slug vs rifles for problem bears (let's add moose) is an ongoing debate. I'm going to contact some of my Fish and Game biologist friends and see if they could produce a list of problem animals taken and caliber / gauge used. It might be instructive. I know one biologist who used a .338 on some problem bears but I think he also carried a 12 ga. Another one got a .375 H&H but I think he mostly used a 12 ga. An enforecement officer used a .450 Marlin for one bear. I think a 12 ga was used on a small grizzly that got into a pipeline camp building. A few years ago a polar bear tried to crawl through a window on the north slope and I can't remember what was used to snuff him. I'll see what I can find out - but they might be reluctant to take the time to dig up the info.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #18 on:** February 27, 2005, 09:07:01 AM »

Not an Elmer Keith fan and never met him. Thought he was more blowhard than anything but he did bring a lot of experience to the table.
Anybody that would put in print that he killed a deer, I believe it was, at 600 yard's running with a 4" barreled hand gun, has some serious problem's. I wonder how many people have tried just that because Elmer say's he did it and one of his friend's say's " hell ya!".

But like him or not, the 333OKH was probally a good round and I'ed suspect that's what he used, as mentioned above.

anthony passero · « **Reply #19 on:** March 04, 2005, 07:13:40 PM »

It was a 35 Whelen that keith used on his alaskan trip that he guided on.

pastorp · « **Reply #20 on:** March 05, 2005, 12:53:09 PM »

Don Fisher, I am a fan of Elmers, and believe every word he said. If Elmer said he did it then I believe him. Not trying to start and argument just presenting the other side of the picture.

The deer incident you mention has been hashed over for years by arm chair hunters. The part you failed to tell is that the deer had already been wounded by a rifle hunter, and was getting away. Elmer was just trying to put the animal down. Big difference than shooting at unwounded healthy game at those distances. Elmer used rocks for target practice not live game at those ranges. Regards, Byron

S.B. · « **Reply #21 on:** March 12, 2005, 03:27:09 PM »

Daveinthebush and Dand, give me your definition of quality slugs? Do you mean jacketed? Or a particular brand?

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #22 on:** March 12, 2005, 03:54:17 PM »

For me at least Foster's do not do it for anything larger than deer.

If you look up a few posts you will see the specs. on Brenneke 3" Mag. dangerous games slugs. They are much harder than the Foster's and pack a punch at both ends as any 3" slug does.

I have never tried copper slugs as supplies of slugs in Alaska are few and far between. I think I bought five boxes of the Brenneke slugs for $1.75 per box at Dicks back in New York.

FYI I hit a eight point buck at nine yards last fall in the heart with a 2 3/4 Winchester Foster and he still ran 80+ yards before expiring in full stride.
But then again, heart shot animals often don't know their dead, just run out of fuel.

S.B. · « **Reply #23 on:** March 12, 2005, 05:14:17 PM »

Thanks Dave. Early in my whitetail deer hunting, Brenneke's were THE slug to use. I ran into a box of the black paper shell by Brenneke up in the attic a few months back. Still in the original box. We only used the 2 3/4" shells back then. Up until two years ago, in Illinois, we could only use shotgun slugs during gun season for whitetails.

S.B. · « **Reply #24 on:** March 26, 2005, 06:38:38 PM »

Quote from: Swage

Quote from: Don Fischer
Elmer Keith was alway's proud of Elmer Keith. Likely as not the cartridge he used was the 333 OKH.

I take it you knew Elmer As well :grin: ..

Big bag of wind and 99.99% BS.

That man could S T R E T C H the truth to no end...

And that pipe bs .. name two guy's that ever saw elmer with a pipe when there was not a camera around.. the man smoke the most fowlest stinkiest rotten smelling Cigars ever made...

Don't get me started on tubby

Not sure I can agree with you on this. Elmer was one man who tallked the talk and had walked the walk. How much hunting have you actually done. How many griz have you seen in your life time?

while99 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 21, 2005, 07:36:28 PM »

I'm planning an Alaskan fishing trip for August, 2006. What is the best weapon to carry when fishing? I have a stainless Redhawk .44 magnum and I also have Model 70 Winchesters in .416 Remington magnum and .338 Winchester magnum. The Redhawk would be convenient, the Model 70s would be unwieldy but better stoppers. I could by a short-barreled 12 gauge pump when I got there but I'm not sure I trust a 12 ga. to stop a bear.

Sourdough · « **Reply #26 on:** April 21, 2005, 08:07:14 PM »

I don't favor slugs with a 12ga. Shot too many big hogs in Turkey with them, and had them either get away, or get too close for comfort. I cut into the shoulders of many hogs to remove the slug and only found it to go in 3/4 to 1 inch. Buck shot to the head they always went down. Most of the bear guards I know up here carry #4 buckshot in their shotguns. #4 is also what I carry. I have been doing some testing with BPIs Dangerous Game Slug, It looks promising. At least with buck shot you can take out their nose and eyes then they can't find you. There is also a strong possiability that you will hit the brain through an eye socket or up through the nasel passage and kill them instantly. Just remember shoot for the nose.

S.B. · « **Reply #27 on:** April 26, 2005, 02:11:12 PM »

Daveinthebush, when a shotgun was the only gun we could use in Illinois for deer, we carried Brennekes in 2 3/4" in smooth bores? Any idea how much accuracy is lost in a smooth bore? I only ask because you list these in a rifled barrel only. Also, how well does the shot cartridges shoot in a rifled barrel, for small game and such? Seems to me that a smooth bore would be my choice, so I could cover as many bases as possible.

Grunthunter · « **Reply #28 on:** April 27, 2005, 03:37:40 PM »

I don't read anything about using Randy Garrett's .45-70's . Nobody like them or just don't want to pay the price? According to his writeups, his 500gr hammerheads will go through anything that walks the face of thte Earth ............... lengthwise !

A Marlin lever in .45-70 and Ruger SRH in .44 both loaded with Garrett cartridges.

cobrad · « **Reply #29 on:** April 28, 2005, 01:24:34 PM »

I have a 6 lb .338 ordered from Match Grade Arms just for this sort of thing. Yes, it will have a muzzle break, and a 22" barrel. I want it to be handy to pack around.