Author Topic: Don't go lookin' for it!  (Read 1935 times)

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Offline gwindrider1

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« on: February 01, 2005, 10:20:27 AM »
Guys,  I've just spent a couple of hours browsing through this forum.  Some very interesting stories I have to say, but one thing is sticking in my thoughts; mostly from the stories of Dudleyville, CT., and the accounts of the cloven hove prints that were seen.

Personally, I believe that there is evil residing in this world of ours, just as I believe that there are angels who look after us.  I just want to say that I think it is a fools game to go looking for evil.  Leave it alone, and hope that it never finds you!

I commend you guys for your adventuresome spirits, but stop to think about what you might be getting yourselves, or your loved ones into.  Just not worth the risk I think.

Just wanted to express my opinion on this stuff.  God bless you all, and be careful out there!

Offline RedRyder21

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« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2005, 02:10:01 PM »
I have had a strange life and I have seen some wierd things. It is nothing I have asked for. I am just glad I have found this corner of the internet to talk about these things and not be lauged at.

One thing that should be left alone is EVP. EVP stands for electronic voice phenomenon. Basicaly many people have found that if you take a tape recorder, digital or cassete, record in complete silence, play it back, amplify it, you can all of a sudden hear voices.

I was very skeptical and I really lauged out hard until I was prove wrong. A friend of mine and I got together one night and made some recordings in his basement. We had not been drinking or anything like that. He took the recording and recorded them onto his computer. He slowed down the speed of the recordings and you could hear voices and the clearest one you could hear a voice say "this is my house".

Ever since I have left the EVP thing alone. Do not even attempt this.
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Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2005, 01:55:20 AM »
I've always been interested in Ghosts and haunted places. After hearing the local high school kids and my kids included talking about this place being one of the most haunted places on earth I figured I would like to investigate it to see if its real or not.  Its not only the cloven hoof tracks inside the human boot tracks in the snow thats only some of the proof that something is really haunting the place.  On this day too we used a cam corder too and on the film we caught something too.  On a few occasions what ever it is calls my dog from the up in the trees too.  It will call the dog many times from the same tree as we were leaving.  On another day it was from a little hill the dog would stop dead in its tracks and turn and look at the hilkl and stare as if something was talking to it.  The famous ghost hunters " The Warrens" went there and said its a very evil place and people shouldn't go there.  Well I went in a skeptic and after about 4 trips into the place I'm a believer now.  Everything you read on the net about Dudleytown you can bet its true!!  And the ones who say nothing happened when they were there had no camera or dog with them.  If you went in there with nothing you seen nothing expect in the snow with the cloven hoof tracks.  Things do dissappear and appear there too.  That day i seen the cloven tracks in the snow I was on a dirt trail and decieded to turn back to take a right turn and do a loop thats there. Like i said before my tracks were gone from when i turned back in the snow there was nothing there when i came out of the loop on to the trail were i first was.  When you enter that place you need to keep your wits about you and you must realize what it can do to you when it plays games.  I have no fear of it and i would love to go back and spend the night if the place wasn't closed to the public now.  Its all about research.
                                                                         BigBill

There was a film crew from hollywood there and they were filming for a few days and had camera problems.  They were filming an old foundation when something appeared out of it.  The film crew left right away.  When they got back to hollywood there was nothing on the film.

My camera would shoot 3 to 4 frames when it went off by itself each time, on every trip.  Whats there likes to play with camera's.

There's nothing to fear but fear itself!!!  

The BAD:  Ok I met the Devil we haven't talked face to face yet but we met maybe on the next trip.

Offline Loader 3009

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« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2005, 03:14:46 AM »
Spirit beings are not held to the same physical laws as man.  They can and do appear as many different entities.  Even though they are seemingly able to pass through solid objects, they are somehow able to interact with the physical.  Your examples of cloven hoofprints is evidence of that.  It takes very little imagination to see how they can also make LARGE sixteen inch footprints.

As I said in another thread....."Shoot one.  You will find no body."
Don't believe everything you think.

Offline Graybeard

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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2005, 07:05:29 AM »
Matt has tons of stories of ghost he has seen and known. I've been trying to get him to post in here. Perhaps if you guys PM'ed or e-mailed him he'd share some. Like the one who shared the place he now lives with him until he finally explained to it the gal he'd been living with who is a witch had moved away. Hey his story not mine.


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Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2005, 02:56:07 PM »
Matt you have some ghost  :eek:  stories too and your holding out on us??  Thats sad that you don't trust us enough to tell us!!!                  BigBill

Offline dbuz

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« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2005, 05:15:59 PM »
I agree with gwindrider1. Some things in this world are not meant to mess with. Back in my younger and foolish days of high school, some friends and I came across a ouija board. My friend would swear he was not moving it and I know I was not moving it. It never worked until we went to an old house in the woods at the end of a long dirt road. After playing with it many times, the board(evil spirit) told me to come up to the house by myself. I still get chills when I think about that. Thank God nothing happened to me and I never ventured off into the occult. A few years later I surrendered my life to Christ and broke and burned the board. I know what RedRyder21 is talking about. There are evil spirits(demons, fallen angels) that can manifest themselves in many ways. To mess with a believer in Christ they have to have permission from God. But if you do not KNOW Christ as your personal savior they can torment you and even possess you. Stay away from evil spirits(ghosts, orbs, U.F.O.s?). The best way to learn about evil spirits is by reading the KJV Holy Bible.
If you can earn it, why did He have to die?

Offline Loader 3009

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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2005, 02:48:44 AM »
Quote from: Graybeard
Matt has tons of stories of ghost he has seen and known. I've been trying to get him to post in here. Perhaps if you guys PM'ed or e-mailed him he'd share some. Like the one who shared the place he now lives with him until he finally explained to it the gal he'd been living with who is a witch had moved away. Hey his story not mine.
No such thingsas ghosts.  The Bible plainly states this.  There are evil spirit beings, however.  They often masquerade as "ghosts" to confuse people and to convince them that either God is a liar or that there IS NO God.  There is a war going on in the spirit world at the present time.  This war will determine YOUR future.

Spirits are REAL.  More real than man.  Spirits are immortal.  Man is mortal, therefore temporary.
Don't believe everything you think.

Offline Gallahad

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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2005, 09:42:32 AM »
DBUZ.... You said it!  Amen!  LOADER3009.... When God made man HE breathed HIS own breath, the breath of life into him, making his Soul immortal.(understand, i'm not dissagreein' with ya, no disrespect intended here, just hopin' veiwers understand) A soul that will either reside with Christ, or be tormented in the lake of fire for all eternity. Thats serious! Please everybody, get to know Jesus.  
       
        On a previous note, I was going to ask about the possibility of "big foot" being an evil spirit of some kind? I think someone touched on it a few posts up.  Iv'e read a few posts about them "dissapearing". a lot of russian reports apparently?  I just wonder if "bigfoot" sightings might be an attempt by satan to fool some into the false religion of evolution, by making them think there is a "missing link" between man and monkeys (Which any good scientist can tell you is a load of garbage, as there has NEVER been been ANY proof of such a thing. Boy I could go on for days about that subject, but if ya want info I think you can still find it at dr.dino.com   ) This really troubles me, because I read about a fella who seen one, and claims he seen it had a soul when he seen its eyes.  It would have had a soul if it was a fallen angle working for satan. And his little trick to make an intelligent divinly created man beleive in such a thing as an "upright ape with a soul of which he could have been decended"is working on those who dont know the gospel.  Another thought that I think goes with this is that there appears to be sightings of this nature virtually everywhere around the world.  ye-ren, yetty, sasquach, etc.  Even in North America, sightings are from border to border.  youd think an unidentified species of north american ape would be in only a few isolated ereas? Also,  I've herd the argument that nobody finds bear remains, because the crawl somewhere secluded, cave/den,to die. but what about getting hit by cars?  Now there may have been a report or two, but have you ever saw a dead one on the side of the road? NO!  I see 5-10 road killed bears a year if not more in northern WI.
Now I am in NO way saying people don't see bigfeet, They do.  But are bigfeet apes, or satans workers? If I knew that then i'd know whether to shoot, or rebuke in the name of Christ!  I think this is real interesting. any more thoughts? :D

Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2005, 12:53:47 PM »
I'd still like to spend the night there.                   BigBill

Offline Loader 3009

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« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2005, 01:43:35 PM »
Gallahad, nowhere in the Bible does it say man has an immortal soul.  What the Bible does say is that man IS a soul.  It also says that living creatures (animals) are souls.  Soul is a word for anything that lives and breathes.....in other words, life.

The Bible also says that the dead know nothing.  They are DEAD.....asleep.  If this is not so, why would there be resurrections at the time of and after the return of Christ? There are no ghosts.

Other than those fine points, I will agree with most of your post.
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Offline Gallahad

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« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2005, 06:32:26 AM »
Reloader 3009... Thanks for responding! Your post had me and the wife up late doing a Bible study. When you get into God's word, it's hard to put it down! If I could please respond!

Now as to what a soul is... soul comes from the Hebrew word Nephesh, which does essentially mean to have, or having life. My Strong's Concordance says the best definition is: All that is within a person (as found in Psalm 103:1). A verse that supports THIS definition of soul is Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." The word destroy here is translated from Apollumi meaning the loss of well-being in the case of the unsaved hereafter. This shows that the living body and the SOUL are two different parts of a man. This is the Soul I speak of. The Bible uses these two different meanings of the word, both something that is alive, breathing; and the part of a man that remains, when his body is dead, as in Matthew 10:28. It is the second ususage I was speaking of when saying man's soul is immortal.

Look at Luke 16:19-31. The rich man (in Gehenna) was dead. He did, however, know Lazarus, he was worried about his still living family, and recognized Abraham! His body was dead, but clearly he still had "All that was within him." This passage also hits on your comment of "the dead know nothing." The rich man knew much!

Now please do correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that "the dead know nothing" come from the NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION of Ecclesiastes 9:5. I do believe this was translated incorrectly. The King James vesion states "but the dead know not any thing." Notice, any and thing are two separate words. The word "know" here is translated from the Hebrew word which has several meanings; but most pertinent to our passage here would be: learning about a thing through contact with it. I think you would agree should you read through verse 9. It doesn't matter what knowledge we have of the "things of this earth" when our bodies die because we will be nothing except for our soul. Soul as referred to in Matthew 10:28. Also pertaining to the dead knowing nothing is 1 Samuel 28:3-20. We know Saul had done an abomination to God in calling up Samuel, but was Samuel a "Ghost." I don't know.

I never said there WERE ghosts. Satan can't use or touch the dead. I was wondering if perhaps "Big Feet" were simply Satanic/Demonic beings. Fallen Angels perhaps, doing Satan's bidding. OR maybe Satan himself; Read Job 1:7.

Anyway, thanks again Reloader 3009 for discussing with me! So to you and all my friends and brothers in Christ I say, "I really hope I didn't stick my foot in my mouth in this post. If I did, will somebody please pull it out!  :D

Offline SAWgunner

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« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2005, 09:27:08 AM »
There is a well documented incident in England in the late 1800's of hoof prints found in a fresh snow.  Supposedly they covered about sixty miles, and were found on top of walls and roof tops and even made a leap across a wide river.  The paper even stated that at times the hoof prints walked up to several front doors, and then walked away.  Wooohhh!!!!  Talk about attending church more often.  The English paper made a point to state that it was a bi-pedal "animal" that made the tracks.  The only other known documented case of this was in Antartica.  I forget the Colonel's name, but it was one of the first expedtions there.  They landed an found hoof prints in the snow and followed them until a rocky outcrop made it impossible to track.  The party assumed it was a mule from a ship wreck.  The author states that, "One wonders what they may have found if they caught up to it.


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Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2005, 12:26:34 PM »
I was out of film by the time i seen the cloven hoof tracks hidden inside the boot tracks in the snow but they both disappeared after a while like everything else there does.  Dudleytown is a very strange place  because its said that things disappear and appear all the time and i have to agree.  I orginally went to the find the place at night around 11pm. and there was an overhead sign that was missing the next morning.  I don't know how such an awesome place could be so haunted.  I just wonder why its so bad and what orginally happened there to make it so bad.  While there is sites that discredit whats going on there thats totally BS I know for sure the place is haunted.  I think they just don't want anyone to go there.  They also say don't take anything home from there too.  One one of my visits there was 3 kids and one of them (a girl) had a funny shaped rock in her hand that she took home with her.  I was going to warn her but i didn't and i wished i had her phone number to find out what happened with it.  They say the bad spirits can come home with you thru those rocks or anything else you may take home out of there.  We also visited the local cemertary there too where the Dudley's are buried.  Its not where dudleytown is, its across on the main road away from the place.  The last report i heard from there the spirits were slapping and kicking people lately.                                                  BigBill

I don't think that bigfoot has anything to do with satan.  Back in the crusades if the dam churches didn't burn so much of the books and records we would know more about the civilizations that they didn't want us to know about.

Offline Loader 3009

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« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2005, 12:26:49 PM »
Gallahad and others, when I make a statement contrary to your beliefs, I am always ready to back it up.  Some years ago, I offered a $10,000 reward to anyone who could prove that man has a soul.  I ran an ad in the local paper for a full week.  No takers.  I still have that $10,000.  I have offered here for a bigfoot, dead or alive.  No takers.

Now, getting back to the subject at hand.  Study the history of the King James Version and you will see that there were no Godly men amongst the writers.  King Jimmy was, as you probably know, light in his loafers.  This, in itself, should set off alarms to the righteous.

Everyone has had family or friends who have passed away, and it's quite natural to wonder what happened to them when death occurred. Where are they now? Are they somehow still conscious? Are they alive and dead at the same time?

The example of Jesus Christ clearly answers the question. The Son of God  was born as a normal physical human (Hebrews 2:14-17). After He was brutally killed His body was placed in the tomb  where He remained dead until He was resurrected to life. His resurrection would not have been necessary if He had been alive while He was dead.

 What does The Bible actually say about what happens when humans die, and more importantly, what does The Word of God say about how and when they stop being dead?

"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing" (Ecclesiastes 9:5 RSV)

"For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity. All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again." (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 RSV)

"Brethren, I may say to you confidently of the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.... For David did not ascend into the heavens" (Acts 2:29,34 RSV)

"No one has ascended into heaven but He who descended from heaven, the Son of man." (John 3:13 RSV)

"But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at His coming those who belong to Christ." (1 Corinthians 15:20-23 RSV) (see The Return Of Jesus Christ)

"Thy dead shall live, their bodies shall rise. O dwellers in the dust, awake and sing for joy!" (Isaiah 26:19 RSV)

"But we would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet The Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with The Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 RSV)

"Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years." (Revelation 20:4-6 RSV)

"for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment." (John 5:28-29 RSV)

"And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2 RSV)

"Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it; from His presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:11-15 RSV)

So, you see, there is a great difference in what the Bible says and what man teaches.  If you like I will preach a short sermon on evil spirits for the benefit of the ghost and bigfoot believers.  BTW, sorry to keep you up so late last night. :wink:
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Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2005, 12:40:49 PM »
I believe in god but not in church or some of the bible because it was rewritten by the church to suit the church.  If any other business which the church is, molested little boys like the catholic church did, they would of been shut down like they should of been and all jailed for the crimes yet they continue to do business.  My faith is no longer with the catholic church.  I turn my back to them.  Now they will suffer the wrath of God and of the people by losing their followers.  One by one the churches are shutting down and thats great.  The more i hear there shutting down churches because of law suits makes me think there really is a god and he'll take care of the problem.  "Remember Vengeance is Mine said the Lord"  and i believe it!!!!!   I think everyone is responcible all the way to the pope who is so willing to comment on everything else but what goes on in his own back yard.  Well so much for religion.           BigBill

With that said i fear a catholic priest more than a cloven hoofed creature.

Offline Loader 3009

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« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2005, 12:56:09 PM »
BigBill, the catholic church is to become the driving force behind the beast of Revelation (the rising EU).  "The Woman dressed in scarlet who rides the beast" refers to the catholic/pagan church, the beast being the Holy Roman Empire resurrected for the LAST time.

"The false profit" will head that church.  Study the history of that church.  It was founded by Nimrod, it is Pagan in origin.  The Bible, in reference to the "Great Whore and her daughters" is speaking of that church AND those that sprang from it.
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Offline dbuz

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« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2005, 08:00:25 AM »
Amen Gallahad. Loader 3009, the Holy Bible (KJV), denies the claim you make that Christ was in the grave for 3 days and not alive. Read Matt.12:40, 1 Pet. 3:18-20, Jude 6, Eph. 4:8-10. He went and preached to the fallen ones and took those in Abrahams bosom to heaven(Luke 16:19-31). They were covered by the blood of bulls and goats and lambs and not washed by the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ. This goes along with Matt. 27:51-53. Also, Heb. 4:12 says we have a soul, spirit, and body. Like Gallahad said, the rich man was in flames waiting to be judged and thrown into the lake of fire to be tormented day and night forever and ever (Rev. 20). There are also some in Rev. 6&7 that are dead but don't have their bodies yet so they are given a white robe.
  Back to the discussion at hand, it is interesting to study the word  "nephilim" in Gen 6:4 and Num. 13:33. They were giants on both sides of the flood. Some believe they we offspring of fallen angels and humans. Others believe they were the result of genetic engineering. Some could have possibly escaped the hand of David and migrated north and eventually crossed the Bearing Strait to come to the Americas.
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Offline Loader 3009

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« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2005, 01:49:12 PM »
dbuz, you are confusing parables and verses taken out of context with what the Bible  actually says.  There is only ONE verse in the whole of the Bible that seeming supports your argument and it was mis-punctuated.  It was corrected in later translations.  

As for roasting in hell, the Bible says that the evil will be consumed, they will be ashes under the feet of the righteous........ in other words burned up....destroyed....the second death.  What kind of loving God would cause someone to be tormented forever?  This is part of the Babylonian Mystery Religion.  Paganism.
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Offline dbuz

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« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2005, 05:04:21 PM »
It was ''corrected" in later translations? It sounds more like it was sugar coated in later translations. See, that's the problem with the newer bible versions. Take a verse out here that deals with salvation, take the title Christ away from Jesus here and there, take away Christ's deity here and there. Satan is wise. He wants people to believe they can live in sin and they are going to be burned up. No punishment for sin. God is a loving God. One could use your argument to ask why God lets children get cancer and hundreds of thousands die each day in tragedy. God gives everyone a chance to be saved (Rom. 1). Anything that happens to the person after is his or her own free will. God let's us choose our own destiny with punishment or reward. And you didn't clarify what verses I "took out of context" or where I "confused parables". They read pretty simple to me. Even a child can understand them. The fallen angels are spirits. A lost man has a spirit. Both will be tormented forever and ever (Rev. 20:10). And no, I am not talking about purgatory.
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Offline Loader 3009

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« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2005, 11:57:08 PM »
I really hate to confuse you with facts but for the benefit of those that have not yet been brainwashed I will attempt to explain about "hell".

Hell was an Old-English word that, at the time when the fine classic King James Version was translated in 1611, meant simply the grave, or a hole in the ground. The word hell was used by the KJV translators, and many others ever since, for a number of different original Hebrew or Greek words of The Bible. Not all mean a place of fire.

The Hebrew word pronounced she-ole meant the grave e.g Psalm 16:10 from various translations:

King James Version:
"For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."

Revised Standard Version:
"For Thou dost not give me up to Sheol, or let Thy Godly One see the pit."

New International Version:
"because You will not abandon me to the grave, nor will You let your Holy One see decay"

The Greek word pronounced haw-dace, was the equivalent of the Hebrew word sheol - it too meant the grave.

"For thou wilt not abandon my soul to Hades, nor let thy Holy One see corruption." (Acts 2:27 RSV)

"he foresaw and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that He was not abandoned to Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption." (Acts 2:31 RSV)

As the Scriptures above describe, Jesus Christ was in "hell," the grave in The Garden Tomb, for three days before His resurrection.  And He was DEAD.

The Hinnom Valley is a deep, narrow ravine located in Jerusalem, running south from the Jaffa Gate on the west side of the Old City, then eastward along the south side of Mount Zion until it meets the Kidron Valley which separates the Temple Mount from the Mount of Olives on the east side of the city. It is named from a certain "son of Hinnom" who apparently owned or had some significant association with the valley at a time prior to Joshua 15:8.

 The Valley of Hinnom had a very horrendous history in ancient times. It was used as a place where the pagan worshipers did all sorts of vile and wicked things - including burning children alive as sacrifices to the idols Moloch and Baal. One section of the valley was called Tophet, or the "fire-stove," where the children were slaughtered (2 Kings 23:10). It was a place of tremendous evil for many years.

After their return from the Babylonian exile, the Jews turned the Hinnom Valley into the city dump where garbage and anything deemed unclean (including the bodies of executed criminals) was incinerated. For that purpose, a fire was kept constantly burning there. Even though it was no longer used for evil worship, with all the filth and thick smoke it remained a very dark and dreary place.

The Hebrew name Hinnom when translated into Greek is gehenna. By the time of Jesus Christ, the deep, constantly-burning Valley of Hinnom was also known as the Valley of Gehenna, or Hell, and had taken on a popular image as the place "down there" where the wicked would eventually be cast into the flames for destruction.

Jesus also figuratively used the original word Gehenna in His dire warning to unrepentant sinners, but He obviously wasn't referring to the fires of the Valley of Hinnom - He was talking about the future lake of fire that will be used to destroy the enemies of God (Revelation 19:20, 20:13-15).

The lake of fire is the real "Hell" which some love to rant about.  Sounds a lot like the Muslim religion...... using fear, not love to further their faith.

"And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who sits upon the horse and against his army. And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulphur." (Revelation 19:19-20 RSV)

"Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:11-15 RSV)

What happens when one is thrown into a lake of fire?  They are BURNED UP.  They are DEAD for eternity.  The Second Death.

The First Horseman of the Apocalypse represents "religious deception".  He must come first,....before the other three.  The Bible says that the whole world will be deceived....... not just the Methodists, Muslims, Catholics, Baptists, Hindus,etc.  Think about that.
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Offline Bigfoot Researcher

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« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2005, 02:44:08 AM »
I am currently reading the Naf Hammadi transcripts, and the Dead Sea scrolls, the original writtings translated directly into english.
By reading this e-mail i recieved from a friend, you'll see why.

***********

In the early 4th century AD, Rome was in turmoil. The empire was held together and forged into the Byzantine Empire by Constantine, who used Christianity as a tool for recruiting and urban pacification.



Christianity was one of two cults of the era that were competing with the Roman pantheon (derived from the Greek) for worshippers. The other cult was Mithraism, whose followers worshipped the god Mithra. There was more than one form of Mithraism, but for our purposes today we’re just going to look at Roman Mithraic tradition.



Today, it’s believed that Mithraism was an astrological religion, based on what’s known as precission… the path through the sky which the constellations take, as observed from the earth through different eras. Every 2,160 years, we enter a new astrological ‘Age’, and the cycle is completed every 25,920 years as we pass through all 12 symbols of the Zodiac.



www.well.com/user/davidu/mithras.html



David Ulansey, the author of The Origins of Mithraic Mysteries, has put together a logical theory on Mithraism that’s supported by both modern astrophysics and the archeological record. What’s interesting about the Roman Mithra is his story, which parallels that of the modern story of Jesus in some remarkable ways…



www.locksley.com/6696/CHRISTmas.htm

“Mithra, by the way, was born on December 25, of a virgin. His birth was witnessed by shepherds and magicians [magi]. Mithra raised the dead and healed the sick and cast out demons. He returned to heaven at the spring equinox and before doing so had a last supper with his 12 disciples (representing the 12 signs of the zodiac), eating mizd, a piece of bread marked with a cross (an almost universal symbol of the sun). Any of that sound familiar?

Constantine was faced with a serious dilemma. He needed to find a common ground through which to unite the fragmented Roman Empire. He chose Christianity as the unifying force, but as you can see from the passage above, concessions were made to appease Mithraism and those who worshipped the Roman Pantheon. The concessions to the Roman pagans will be discussed later.



The historical account says that Constantine claimed to see a vision in the sky of the Labarum, along with the words “Conquer with this” (in Latin of course).



The Labarum was depicted as either a burning cross, or a skull and crossbones very similar to the one used today by the Yale Skull and Bones, who use the pirate skull and crossbones with the number 322 beneath it. The skull and bones version can be found on ancient Byzantine coins, along with the words Spes Pvblic Const.



After this ‘vision from the sky’, which no one can be sure actually happened; Constantine officially adopted Christianity as the state religion, and made the paying of lip service respect for Christianity the law of the land. But there were some problems…



Much of Christian doctrine was too hard for most decadent Romans to swallow. There were too many fundamental differences between Christian ideals and Roman ideals for Constantine’s bid to succeed, unless some compromises were made. Rome was an empire that lived off the exploitation of others. Slavery was prevalent. Fractional banking had been incorporated into society, through the mixing of coins with non-precious metal alloys. Temples, architecture and the cult priesthoods were all booming industries.



From the Nag Hammadi Transcripts and the Dead Sea Scrolls, which are the only existing documents in the original Coptic and Aramaic that Jesus spoke, and which are also the only existing records from Jesus time of his actual words and deeds, we see a far different picture of Jesus than the one we have today.



The Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Truth and the Gospel of Philip is against the building of temples. He’s against organized religion, tithes, and a fat and happy clergy. He’s against charging interest on loans, and against any form of discrimination. He’s against the abuse of slaves, and sounds more like a Buddhist and a socialist revolutionary than the Jesus found in today’s Bible.



www.webcom.com/~gnosis/naghamm/nhl.html



For Constantine, this simply would not do. How was he to convince people to convert to Christianity, when it was so diametrically opposed to Roman ideals? Constantine needed a way to make Christianity jive with people’s worldview.



As a result, in 322AD Constantine ordered the scribe Eusebius to compile an “official” collection of Gospels, translated mostly from Greek (NOT from Coptic) to Latin and edited for a Roman audience. MUCH editing was done on the original texts that weren’t entirely thrown out.



This is important to understand, so let me make it clear: when you read the words in today’s Bible, you are NOT reading the words of Jesus Christ. You are reading the words of Eusebius, scribe to Constantine, who was ordered to compile an official collection of gospels that would be acceptable to a Roman Audience, three hundred years after the death of Jesus.



The Bible as we know it is NOT the word of God, or of Jesus Christ. It’s a translation of a translation of a translation, purged of inconvenient facts and so heavily edited that there is not one single gospel consistent with either the archeological or historical record of the age of Jesus Christ. So unless you’re willing to accept that either Constantine or Eusebius were, in fact, a reincarnation of Jesus, which goes against Christian tradition, then what we know today as Christianity is a false Roman doctrine, and not the beliefs of Jesus himself.



Today, Eusebius’ edited version of the Gospels is the backbone of what we know as the New King James Version of the Holy Bible.



Eusebius made massive changes to the Gospels. Some were thrown out in their entirety, and all the remaining Gospels were edited for a Roman audience. We can observe the more obvious changes simply by observing Jewish and Essene traditions during Jesus’ era.

*************

And King James roughed it up even more.



--------------------

THE ENTRENCHMENT OF SLAVERY



The other reason for the rewrite of the gospels was to appease the ruling class, and to assure them that just because Constantine was adopting Christianity, this in no way would infringe on them as slave owners and tyrants under their own roof.



Nowhere in the Dead Sea Scrolls or the Nag Hammadi transcripts does Jesus order slaves to obey their masters as is found in modern Bibles. According to the Gospel of Philip, Jesus didn’t condone using slaves as sex toys, as was common practice in Rome… “A bridal chamber is not for the animals, nor is it for the slaves…”



Compare this to the modern Bible…



Colossians 3:22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favour, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.



Note the chapter and verse… 322. 322AD, the year Constantine editing the gospels. 322 BC, the year Demosthenes fought a revolt against Alexander the Great to entrench slavery in Macedonian culture and do away with Alexander’s policy of racial integration and racial intermarriage. 322, the number of the Yale Skull and Bones.



Perhaps the truth is peeking through in mysterious ways…



But why this change affecting Saturnalia and slavery?



Perhaps it was a carrot offered to fence-sitting Pagans. During the time of Constantine, the most popular holiday celebration was the Pagan festival of Saturnalia, which was celebrated on what is now Christmas day, Mithra’s birthday. Constantine the Compromiser managed to give all three religions their cake, and eat it too. Literally.



Constantine officially ordered Saturnalia banned and replaced it with Christmas in 324AD, two years after the editing of the gospels began. This is a documented historical fact, and is not in dispute.



Saturnalia was a celebration with which we’re familiar, but with a twist. Great feasts were held. Presents were exchanged, and good cheer abounded. The twist was that during the day of the Festival of Saturnalia, the masters would become slaves, and the head slave would become master of the house. The Romans would serve their slaves, and exchange gifts with them. It was forbidden for the master to put the head slave to death afterwards.



This pagan festival had wisdom to it. It maintained some semblance of humility amongst slave owners who through the merits of Saturnalia understood, at least in part, the burden of slavery. It taught slave masters to treat others as they’d have others treat them.



And it was one of the first things Constantine did away with.



One other thing of note… Saturnalia was a ONE-DAY affair. But now we have the twelve days of Christmas… the hard partying Romans got to trade in their day of humility and celebration for a twelve-day party without the humility! Remember, it WAS the Romans who invented Bread and Circuses as a method of mind control. This type of compromise has many historical precedents in Roman history.



After the change from Saturnalia to Christmas and the editing of the gospels, slave owners no longer had to serve their slaves or pander to them during the Winter Solstice. Thanks to the changes in wording made by Eusebius (and others) in Colossians and everywhere else, slavery was now entrenched as the word of ‘God’ (aka Constantine). Thanks to the complete and total purging of the Gospel of Philip, masters could now feel good about using their slaves as bed warmers. The slave owners now had license to continue having their parties and feasts, without having to bow to their slaves.



One can imagine how many instant converts such a self-serving interpretation of the gospels must have made amongst the selfish agnostic set of the time… “Hey, forget me serving you slaves next winter. I’m now a Christian, and according to Jesus I have a divine right to own you, use you, and rape you, and you have to obey in all things, even when I’m not watching. See? It says so right here in Colossians Chapter 3 Verse 22,, and this religion is now the law of the land, according to the Emperor…”



Amen. And Jim Crow b*stards use the same word of ‘God’ to justify their behavior to this very day. For them, it’s more convenient to accept a lie that backs up their racism than to accept the true words of Jesus. This is why there are so many Americans converting to Evangelical and Southern Baptist churches today. (*disclaimer - his words, not mine*)



America is a nation emerging these last 30 years from 191 years of segregation. There are MANY who cannot shake their prejudices, or cannot see their racism for what it is. Naturally, they gravitate toward someone telling them what they want to hear as the ‘word of God’. It’s a lot easier to believe what Jerry Fartwell and Pat Robbed-You-Son say as being Gospel truth than it is to face the demons of one’s conscience, when our conscience tries to tell us that there’s something fundamentally wrong with our belief system. And there are plenty of b*stards out there ready to tell them exactly what they need to hear in order to feel good about themselves, and to stop wrestling with their conscience.



Any reasonable person can see that today’s Holy Bible is more akin to Holy Bupkis than the words of Jesus Christ. The book was edited to entrench slavery into the Roman culture, disempower the Vestal Virgins and Pagan worship, and to demonize Jews. The latter was done for purposes of raising an army to conquer Jerusalem and commit genocide against Jews, which Constantine most certainly did by all accounts, including the ‘accepted’ Christian histories.


Jesus - heir-in-exile to Jerusalem via Joseph of Arimathea. Led a revolution against Roman rule and the rome appointed monarchy. After failing to unseat the Romans, Christianity remained a religion of principle, THE ONLY ONE as far as I'm concerned for at least a few generations. But once Constantine got its hands on it he destroyed it utterly, twisting it into the most evil abomination ever forced down the throat of mankind. For proof of this, compare the words of Jesus from the Nag Hammadi transcripts to the so-called words of Jesus found in today's Bible. The Nag Hammadi transcripts and Dead Sea Scrolls are the ONLY contemporary source from Jesus' time, and they bear absolutely no resemblance to the Holy Bupkis.


Everyone has heard the saying, “the meek shall inherit the earth”.



This is found NOWHERE in the old texts from Jesus’ time. It’s a creation of the Roman editors 300 years later, or the Greeks who edited the gospels before the Romans. It was probably derived from these passages from the Gospel Of Philip…



In this world, the slaves serve the free. In the Kingdom of Heaven, the free will minister to the slaves:

"He who is a slave against his will, will be able to become free. He who has become free by favor of his master, and has sold himself into slavery, will no longer be able to be free. "

A minor change, but one that served a domestic purpose: urban pacification. A domestic population who believes the meek shall inherit the earth is much easier to control than one who believes in their right to be free. So we give the angry war-ready alpha males a ready made enemy by demonizing Jews and march them off to war, while keeping the domestic population happy by entrenching slavery and making them into useless pacifists not prepared to rise up against tyranny for their own sakes.



In summation, the result of Constantine’s adoption of Christianity and his editing of the Gospels was the conquest of Persia and the Holy Land, a united Roman Empire, freedom for Roman slave owners to be b*stards, genocide against Jews and Nomads, and credit for all time to Constantine as the modern founder of Christianity.



All this from declaring that he had a vision, followed up by a simple editing job, and a few political compromises for good measure.



Quite a bargain, eh?



Jesus left us plenty of warnings that were edited out of today’s Bible…

“…Most things in the world, as long as their inner parts are hidden, stand upright and live. If they are revealed, they die, as is illustrated by the visible man: as long as the intestines of the man are hidden, the man is alive; when his intestines are exposed and come out of him, the man will die. So also with the tree: while its root is hidden, it sprouts and grows. If its root is exposed, the tree dries up. So it is with every birth that is in the world, not only with the revealed but with the hidden. For so long as the root of wickedness is hidden, it is strong. But when it is recognized, it is dissolved. When it is revealed, it perishes. That is why the Word says, "Already the axe is laid at the root of the trees" (Mt 3:10).

It will not merely cut - what is cut sprouts again - but the ax penetrates deeply, until it brings up the root. Jesus pulled out the root of the whole place, while others did it only partially. As for ourselves, let each one of us dig down after the root of evil which is within one, and let one pluck it out of one's heart from the root. It will be plucked out if we recognize it. But if we are ignorant of it, it takes root in us and produces its fruit in our heart. It masters us. We are its slaves. It takes us captive, to make us do what we do not want; and what we do want, we do not do. It is powerful because we have not recognized it. While it exists it is active.

Ignorance is the mother of all evil. Ignorance will result in death, because those who come from ignorance neither were nor are nor shall be. [...] will be perfect when all the truth is revealed. For truth is like ignorance: while it is hidden, it rests in itself, but when it is revealed and is recognized, it is praised, inasmuch as it is stronger than ignorance and error. It gives freedom. The Word said, "If you know the truth, the truth will make you free" (Jn 8:32). Ignorance is a slave. Knowledge is freedom. If we know the truth, we shall find the fruits of the truth within us. If we are joined to it, it will bring our fulfillment…” – Gospel of Philip

From the Gospel of Thomas…

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

16. Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war.

For there will be five in a house: there'll be three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father, and they will stand alone."

Misguided Peacenik, or revolutionary?

34. Jesus said, "If a blind person leads a blind person, both of them will fall into a hole."

68. Jesus said, "Congratulations to you when you are hated and persecuted; and no place will be found, wherever you have been persecuted."

69. Jesus said, "Congratulations to those who have been persecuted in their hearts: they are the ones who have truly come to know the Father.

Congratulations to those who go hungry, so the stomach of the one in want may be filled."

Clearly a man who respected the seeking of knowledge, and had no time for ignorance or blind faith…

73. Jesus said, "The crop is huge but the workers are few, so beg the harvest boss to dispatch workers to the fields."

74. He said, "Lord, there are many around the drinking trough, but there is nothing in the well."

A capitalist, or a socialist?

76. Jesus said, "The Father's kingdom is like a merchant who had a supply of merchandise and found a pearl. That merchant was prudent; he sold the merchandise and bought the single pearl for himself.

So also with you, seek his treasure that is unfailing, that is enduring, where no moth comes to eat and no worm destroys."

77. Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.

Split a piece of wood; I am there.

Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."

78. Jesus said, "Why have you come out to the countryside? To see a reed shaken by the wind? And to see a person dressed in soft clothes, [like your] rulers and your powerful ones? They are dressed in soft clothes, and they cannot understand truth."

Sounds like Buddhism to me. Is this a man who would approve of a rich clergy dressed in silk and gold, or who would approve of billions being spent on places of worship instead of being used to help the poor?

95. [Jesus said], "If you have money, don't lend it at interest. Rather, give [it] to someone from whom you won't get it back."

100. They showed Jesus a gold coin and said to him, "The Roman emperor's people demand taxes from us."

He said to them, "Give the emperor what belongs to the emperor, give God what belongs to God, and give me what is mine."

Clearly a man who was against capitalism, banking and taxes.

109. Jesus said, "The (Father's) kingdom is like a person who had a treasure hidden in his field but did not know it. And [when] he died he left it to his [son]. The son [did] not know about it either. He took over the field and sold it. The buyer went plowing, [discovered] the treasure, and began to lend money at interest to whomever he wished."

110. Jesus said, "Let one who has found the world, and has become wealthy, renounce the world."

Clearly, he’s speaking in plain words about fractional banking based on the exploitation of mineral rights, and evils of such a system, which was already existent in Jesus’ time. He sounds more like Siddhartha than the Jesus of the 700 Club.

This is why the Catholic Church has tried desperately to keep the Dead Sea Scrolls and Nag Hammadi transcripts from the public these last fifty years. They’re shown to be charlatans, exploiters, and the diametrically opposed to the true words of Jesus of Nazareth. The same can be said for all forms of Christianity that reject the Gnostic Gospels as sacrilege
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Offline Loader 3009

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« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2005, 05:22:27 AM »
I think I'll let you fellers "discuss" that while I watch. :-D  :-D  :-D
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Offline dbuz

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« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2005, 09:08:08 AM »
Loader, I guess we can agree to disagree. But you sound like the one who is brainwashed. Are you reading straight out of "Reasoning with the Scriptures"? I study with prayer. But for you to say Jesus Christ, the creator of the universe (Gen 1:1,26, Jn.1:3, Col. 1:16) and the Force that holds all things together (Col.1:17), even down to the smallest atom, and is God in the flesh (Jn. 1:1,14, 20:28, Heb.1:8, 1Tim 3:16, ect...) was dead in the grave and knew nothing is almost, if it isn't, blasphemy. The world would have fallen apart without His hand holding it together. From the scriptures I have given earlier, you can see where He was from the cross to the resurrection.
If you can earn it, why did He have to die?

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« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2005, 12:26:20 PM »
Not just dead,...... completely, stone cold, graveyard dead.  For three days and three nights he remained in this condition.  He was then resurrected by the Father......... on Saturday, the Sabbath.... the Sabbath that He kept.  Not your Pagan Sunday.
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« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2005, 02:05:12 PM »
People,

Please try very hard not to argue religion here.

Thanks,

Dave 8)
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« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2005, 03:04:37 PM »
If you wish to discuss religion in depth you really need to move it to the forums established for that. I have no problem with discussing or arguing it as long as you stick to topic and don't make it personal.

BUT you need to be aware when you think you're the ONLY one with the correct answers most folks are gonna think you're a kook. Yeah probably me included.

I have convinced Matt to drop in with some of his ghost stories. I warn you in advance, Matt is NOT the nice easy going guy I am. If you enter his threads play by the site rules. Stay on topic, make it personal and he will make you go away. Far, far away. Now he loves to argue and discuss but don't turn it to personalities, stick to the subject being discussed.

You regulars here who are sharing your stories gonna be amazed at some of the stuff the boy posts. Those of you who think this is the place to cast aspertions on the reputation or character of the story tellers best be moving elsewhere for awhile cuz the boy ain't got no patience at all for that and this forum has been declared off limits for that anyway.


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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!