Going to try the .223 again

[Sourdough]

Since I had such horrible luck with my .223 Handi, I put it away and forgot about it.  Well I have decided to try it one more time.  My goal is a maximum four inch group at 300 yards.  What I want to know is what brand bullets you guys are having good results with in 50 thru 80 grains.  So far the only bullet I have been able to get to shoot well is a 45 grain Hornady, and I want something heavier.  So far I have only tried Speer and Hornady bullets.  In 50, 60, and 70 grains.

[Nuttinbutchunks]

I've seen the guys around here say how great the Winchester white box ammo is in the Handis. About 45 grains I think. I'm waiting for my Handi to come back from NEF with a new .223 barrel, so I can't offer any personal experience yet.

[James B]

I know they shoot light bullets best. I just got a new one to replace the one that was stolen from me. I have not been out to shoot it yet. My old one would group the cheap WW's into 1/2 inch every time. I hope I can get the new one to shoot with heavier bullets. Someone on here mentioned that the 63 grain Sierra semi spitzer shoots well because theyare shorter than the pointed bullets. I can't find them around here but Midway has them listed.

[handirifle]

sourdough
I'm afraid to tell you but if you want to shoot 60gr and up bullets, you bought the wrong gun.  There is one 60gr that works in the handi but is WAS DESIGNED for slow twist rifles.  The handi comes in 1 in 12 twist.  To stabilize 65+ weight bullets you'll need at least a 1 in 9 or faster, just depends how heavy you want.

As far as a 300yd group, as I'm sure you're aware there are a LOT of variables there, including wind.  The heavier bullets are best for that.

45-50gr are going to be the rule in the Handi.  MOA groups or better should do what you want, provided you do your part and there is no wind.

[jeff223]

sourdough,how does your rifle shoot at 100yds and what have you tried for ammo so far?

how do you have your rifle scoped?what power?

[James B]

Which 60 grain were you refering to? Is it the Sierra Semi pointed? How does it shoot?

[DanielWGriggs]

About the best Load I came up with is the 53 gr Sierra Match King bullet over 27.2 gr of WW748 with Winchester primers and cases. I also use the same powder primer combo with the 50 gr BarnesX Not quite as accurate but still better than I can hold off hand.

[Paul5388]

The Hornady 60 gr V-Max says specifically it is for 1 in 7" through 1 in 12" twist barrels.  I have been using 27.0 gr Varget with CCI 400 primers in my standard Handi barrel with pretty good results.  I'm not through playing with it, but I think it will get better than what I have gotten it to do so far.

[JPH45]

handirifle, not arguing, it just strikes me that a bullet that is flying faster is subjected to wind forces for less time and therefore will be deflected less. I know the common wisdom is that heavier bullets buck the wind better, but I wonder if that is not a result of higher BC's rather than simple bullet weight. Do you have a copy of Speers reloading manual? In back they have an extensive ballistics table that also shows wind deflection. Give it a look. Bob Milek pointed out this curiosity many years ago in an issue of G&A (he was one of the few writers I've enjoyed) I'm sure there are exceptions on both sides of the equation, but he was speaking mainly of the 22 centerfires as a lot of his work was with TC's with 14" barrels.

[Donaldo]

DWGriggs,
Interesting what load you posted.  I have finally found a handload that shoots as good as the WW 45 JHP econo pak.  It is 27.0 of W748, WW cases, CCI 400 primer, SMK 52 grn bullet.  It shoot 3/8" to 5/8" but if you get off this by 0.2 grains either way it opens up to about 2".  Must be a sweet spot right there.  Mine is the 223 UM heavy barrel.

[JPH45]

handirifle, once again I am caught with hoof in mouth disease. The info I refered to as being in a Speer manual, is not in Speer 13. Don't know if it is in a earlier manual concurrent with the article date (late eighties) or if I remember the source of the wind drift tables wrong altogether. I do though vividly remember the article and it's conclusion that heavier bullets drift more as they are generally slower in velocity and are exposed to the wind for a longer period of time than their lighter, faster counterpart. I am going to www.realguns.com and do some playing with their ballistic computer, perhaps I can gleen a better answer there.

[JPH45]

While it hardly covers the ballistic spectrum, I ran the Hornady 40 grian Vmax and 55 too at 32 and 3000 fps respectively, with 10mph cross wind, the heavier bullet drifts less at 300 yards by 1". Did the same with Speers 150 BTSP, 180 SP and 200 SP, at 2900, 2600and 2300 fps respectively, the 150 and 180 are the same at 300 yards, 3.3 inches, the 200 is 3.4" at 300.

[DanielWGriggs]

Donaldo, I've used the 27 grain load and the 52 SMK but mine (also the Ultra) get best at 27.2 I noticed that a few folks best loads are +/- a half grain on the 748 powder btw I use that same 27.2 for 50gr Nosler ballistic tips. I step it up to 28 with the 40gr hornady vmax moly but am still working on this load.  I would also like to load the cartridge down for medium sized critters like oppossum, and coon's I was hoping for a lead bullet with a flat meplat in the 45gr range at about 1550 to 2100 fps. Should hit em like a fist and be good for head shots on small game edibles too.

[dognot]

Funny you should mention 27.2grs w 748 50 gr ballistic tipi I shoot same load. One Handi shoots lights out with the load, the other handi is Marginal with the same load.

[handirifle]

JPH no argument taken, but in light of the article you mention, I find it very interesting that long range Hi Power competetors have gone to longer heavier bullets.  It's true the longer a bullet is in the wind the more it will be affected, but the laws of motion dictate an object in motion will tend to stay in motion, making a heavier bullet harder to deflect from it's path.

I think the ballistic coeffecient of the bullet has a lot to do with it as well.

The main point I was asking about the long heavy bullets was because sourdough specifically mentioned he wanted to use heavy bullets, 50-80grs in a Handi.

[stiff neck]

The effects of wind can be learned and "overcome".  But that has little or nothing to do with why heavy bullets are prefered at long distances.  

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that long range shooters used heavy bullets because they maintain their velocity over long distances better than light bullets.  On the 800 yard line, you don't want your bullet going subsonic at 725 yards or you're done.  The transition between sonic and subsonic flight plays havoc on little bullets, especially when inches and millimeters count.  Heavy bullets start off a little slower, but they maintain their velocity better, especially out past 500-600 yards.  Light bullets will peter out quicker.  

Bla bla plus heavy bullets are also longer and/or sleeker, giving them a better BC.  But really it's about the mass and retained velocity.

[handirifle]

Stiffneck said

but they maintain their velocity better, especially out past 500-600 yards. Light bullets will peter out quicker.

the laws of motion dictate an object in motion will tend to stay in motion, making a heavier bullet harder to deflect from it's path

In my mind that's a different way of saying the same thing. :grin:

You can't learn and overcome the effect a gust of wind down range has on a bullet.  If a steady breeze is blowing, yes maybe, but gusts are a different animal.  Our range goes to 600yds on a regular shoot and 1000 on special days, when we close the rest of the range(cause you shoot OVER the 600yd benches).  Believe me when I say the wind can gust in the midst of a steady breeze, for that, you want a heavier bullet with the best BC possible.

[James B]

I was looking in the Speer manual today and they list a 70 grain Semi Pointed bullet that they claim it accurate in twists as slow a 1 in12. Has anyone tried this one?

[Mitch in MI]

I was told that the difference between travel time at muzzle velocity and true travel time, multiplied by the speed of the cross wind, will give you the drift.
Let's say the MV is 3000fps. In a vacuum, you could shoot 1000 yards in a second. Now assume that the bullet really takes 1.3 seconds to get there, and the wind is blowing 90 degrees at 200 inches per second. Your shot is going to be displaced by 200x0.3, or 60 inches.

If there is a 70 gr bullet listed for 1 in 12 or faster, I'd like to know what MV is suitable for one in 12 twist. It might be something that only works well in a 220 Swift. When I bought a box of 7mm A-max, I found a minimum twist rate (think it was 8") printed on the box. I called Hornady, and talked to a guy who told me it would work fine at 3000fps in a 10" twist barrel, 2800 would be iffy, and 2600=forget it. Looks like I may need to ream my barrel to 280 AI if I want to use these bullets in my Handi.

[Sourdough]

I'll try the 55gr bullets.  If they shoot well I'll give them a try on varmits.  If they don't do as I wish I'll try a 22-250.