Author Topic: Recoil - 7 mm Rem Mag vs. 30-06 (Read 1731 times)

lilabner · « **on:** January 22, 2005, 06:00:52 AM »

According to an article in the current American Rifleman, the 30-06 with 180 gr. bullets generates significantly more recoil than the 7mm Mag with 140 gr. bullets. It is risky trying to interpolate but I'd guess that the 160 gr. loading for the 7mm would approximate the 30-06 with 180s. You can't ignore rifle weight and bullet weight when considering recoil. I have a scoped 30-06 that weighs in at a couple of ounces over 9 pounds and it doesn't lift off the bags with max. hunting loads. Light rifles shooting heavy bullets can be nasty without a muzzle brake.

Sask_Hunter · « **Reply #1 on:** January 22, 2005, 08:46:38 AM »

stock fit and a good recoil pad make a lot of difference

Zachary · « **Reply #2 on:** January 22, 2005, 08:55:57 AM »

I wouldn't be surprised if a 30-06 with 180 grainers kicks more than a 7mag with 140 grainers - all else being equal.

Your theory of 160 grainers in a 7mag equaling the kick to 180 grainers in a 30-06 may sound right, but in reality it may be different.

To me, my 7mag seems to kick more than my .30-06, but that's probably in part because of the stock fit and weight as mentioned.

Zachary

mountainview · « **Reply #3 on:** January 22, 2005, 08:10:00 PM »

Seemed to be about the same to me and not all that bad in either BUT as Sask_Hunt pointed out, and this can not be overlooked, is the fact that the rifles fit me really well.

Saaafe shooting.

Dave in WV · « **Reply #4 on:** January 23, 2005, 02:32:56 AM »

I read the article and it stated the 30-06 has more free recoil fired from a 8.5 lb rifle than a 7mm Rem mag . I don't buy it since the 7 mag uses a good bit more powder. If you run a recoil calculator it shows the 30-06 has less free recoil.

swecology · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2005, 05:41:42 AM »

Quote from: Sask_Hunter

stock fit and a good recoil pad make a lot of difference

This topic really interests me.

How would you define stock fit? I'm not arguing, but asking. I have a new 7mm WSM in a M70 Featherweight that I had fitted with a Limbsaver recoil pad, after having back surgery last summer. I haven't shot the 7mm yet, because quite frankly, after six months of hell in recovery I am a little shy of the recoil.

I usually shoot a 165 gr. in my 3006, and haven't worked up any loads yet for the 7mm (probably will end up developing loads for 140, 150 and 160 grains each). The recoil from the '06 was easy to manage before the surgery with a PAST recoil shield and the factory Win. recoil pad. Is the recoil from the 7mm going to be similar to the '06, worse, or better, with the length of pull set and the addition of the Limbsaver?

I had the length of pull set to 14", which seems to "fit". I'm just wondering if there is anything I've overlooked, or haven't thought of in terms of "fit" and dealing with the recoil.

Any thoughts or ideas? I guess I'm looking for piece of mind...

Thanks,
Matt

Dave in WV · « **Reply #6 on:** January 23, 2005, 05:49:44 AM »

I'm 5'10" and I'm a prosperous 215lbs and a 13" LOP is good for me with my winter hunting clothes on. I'm not a stock crawler to get on my scope and shoot with my head more erect than most seem to. Your shooting style is just as important as your body make up to get a good stock fit IMHO. A recoil pad will help reduce "felt recoil" but not "free recoil". Try shooting a .243 from the bench. If that doesn't aggravate your back move up to a harder kicking rifle.

BackCountry · « **Reply #7 on:** January 23, 2005, 07:55:54 AM »

I have a model 77 stainless in both 30-06 and 7mm Rem, and I also have a 7mm Weatherby mark V deluxe. Being that the first 2 rifles are almost identical, except that the 7mm has a 2 in. longer barrel, from my experience I can say the 06 definetley kicks more, the Weatherby kicks the least but this could be due to the fact that it is much heavier. I shoot 160 grain bullets out of the 7mm and 180 out of the 06. The 7mm has more powder, but the smaller diameter helps in giving you less recoil.

litman252 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 23, 2005, 01:35:41 PM »

I know that the 30-06 kicks hard out of a 760 with a steel pad.
You could say it comes off the bags.

Tony

Ron T. · « **Reply #9 on:** January 24, 2005, 04:46:18 PM »

Both of my sons have 7mm Rem. Mags, one in a Remington 700 BDL (24" barrel) and the other in a n/s Winchester Model 70 (26" barrel).

My Godson has a Tikka Deluxe Whitetail Hunter & his Dad (my friend) has a Browning Gold Medalion, both rifles in .30/06.

I've fired all four rifles off the bench rest at my club... and both 7mm Magnums shooting 150 gr. factory-loads seem to have slightly more recoil than the two .30/06's shooting 150 grain factory loads. The "sensed recoil" is not great, but the "difference" SEEMS noticable to me.

However, NEITHER caliber has what I would call "objectionable" recoil like my pre-'64 Model 70 in .338 Win. Mag. has off the "bench"... and my Model 70 weighs 10½ lbs with the carrying sling, 3x-9x scope and 4 rounds of ammo.

Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

BackCountry · « **Reply #10 on:** January 24, 2005, 05:31:45 PM »

For those of you interested, I found a table on recoil. here is the link.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

lilabner · « **Reply #11 on:** January 25, 2005, 08:20:46 AM »

Stock fit involves length of pull and drop at comb. Length of pull would be a concern in countering heavy recoil in that you must be careful if pull length is so short that the scope will come back on you during recoil. This would most likely be a concern shooting from prone. Your 14 inch pull should be long enough to do the job. Stocks with considerable drop at comb tend to lift the barrel on recoil while those with a straight comb will push back straighter with less muzzle lift. Monte Carlo combs may accentuate felt recoil. Scope eye relief is a consideration as if the scope is back too far, there is danger of eye contact on recoil. You will shoot more relaxed if the scope is as far forward as possible while still retaining a full sight picture. Relaxed is generally good as your body can yield to the recoil which softens the blow. Finally, shoot lighter bullet weights using well constructed bullets that will hold together and penetrate. They will generate less recoil and still kill effectively. It is purely psychological, but the less noise the gun makes when it goes off, the less I think about recoil. I like to wear ear plugs in addition to shooting muffs to block out as much noise as possible. Hope this is helpful.

High Brass · « **Reply #12 on:** January 25, 2005, 08:22:29 AM »

I think that all things considered, each one will affect a different shooter in slightly different ways. In other words, you'd have to shoot the two of them and them decide. I figure that for most folks the 7MM Mag would kick more but then again, I've been wrong before :eek:

Bart Solo · « **Reply #13 on:** January 25, 2005, 09:31:47 AM »

My son has new savage 110 G in 30-06. His father in law has a 25+ year old savage (I don't know what the model is but it is similar) in 30-06. The older rifle is heavier, but both tell me that the new rifle has a lighter recoil. I suspect the difference is the recoil pad. The old rifle has a recoil pad that should be replaced. Felt recoil is important because too much of hurts the shooter.

I notice that between the 308 and the 30-06 the 308 has noticably lighter recoil. Both seem to do about the same job. The 308 is a favorite of long distance target shooters. The 30-06 not so much. Recoil might be the reason.

Zachary · « **Reply #14 on:** January 25, 2005, 10:19:24 AM »

Quote from: Ron Byers

The 308 is a favorite of long distance target shooters. The 30-06 not so much. Recoil might be the reason.

Actually, there was an article on this same subject somewhere. From what I understood, recoil was part of the reason. The biggest reason, apparently, was that the 308 had a shorter, and thus more rigid, case than the .30-06, thus it was more "inherently" accurate. Well, in the beginning, most of the shooting competitions were won by the .30-06, but then, when the .308s were used, the .308 became the winner in almost all of the competitions.

Zachary

dude70 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 27, 2005, 06:42:15 AM »

It seems to me that there is little difference between the practical recoil of an '06, 7mm and 308. They are all quite managable if you shoot with anything like reasonable frequency. Uncle Sam gave everyone an '06 in WWI, WWII and Korea and it was sufficiently managable for 50+ years.

Good hearing protection makes a big difference in perceived recoil: so does staying away from the scope.

Julian Hatcher's Notebook has two good chapters on recoil and helps understand it.

Any one who shoots a 12ga shot gun can shoot these rifles just fine. They all have less recoil.

Gregory · « **Reply #16 on:** January 27, 2005, 12:30:51 PM »

You can calculate the recoil difference very simply:

http://www.siskguns.com/SISK%20RIFLES%20-%20Recoil%20Calculation.htm

In rifles of the same weight there is about 4 ft-lbs difference between a 30/06 and 7 mm Mag. Probably not enough to notice.

Kurt · « **Reply #17 on:** January 28, 2005, 11:15:20 PM »

Interesting, My Win 70 FW 280 is much milder than my 7mm RM custom montecarlo. I shoot 160 partitions in both. THe 7 weighs 10 pounds, 26inch tube and the win 280 is a hair over 8 lb, 22inch. Here's the kicker (yes pun) the 280 is 2900 or 2950fps on a hot day, and the 7 is only about 150 fps faster. Same powder 4831 IMR. Go figure.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #18 on:** January 29, 2005, 12:24:22 PM »

Dude70.

You make a couple of good points. First Uncle Sam issued the 06 to millions of soldiers and marines for over 60 years. Most of them were able to handle the caliber with training. More importantly a 12 gauge does kick more than an 06. I don't know about you, but I hardly notice a 12 guage's recoil. That might be due to the fact that the average shotgun stock is designed to be part of the sighting system. Pull your shotgun to your shoulder and see how the stock forces your eye down the barrel. Many of us have adjustments made to our shotgun stocks to further facilitate a quick point and shoot. I can carry and shoot my 12 gauge all day long and not really notice the recoil. That is because my stock is fited to me and my gun is fired from the same basic position time after time.

Often our rifle stocks are not as user friendly. Scopes don't help much. They force you to hold your head up higher than any shotgun or rifle with open sights. The big bell scopes that require high mounts are most unnatural of all. Anybody ever been hit in the eye by a scope? I was while hunting antelope many years ago. Bad scope, poor eye relief and poor scope placement forced me to creep up too much on the stock. Didn't do my shoulder any good either.

Dude70 good post.

while99 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 29, 2005, 12:41:07 PM »

I have Model 70 Classic stainless synthetic rifles in both 7 mm Remington Magnum and .30/06. I shoot 160 and 175 bullets in the 7mm and 190 and 200 grain bullets in the .30/06 and can't tell any difference in recoil.

dude70 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2005, 03:19:19 AM »

Ron:

I think we agree on this.

80-90% of shotgun shooting is mounting the gun (getting it to your shoulder properly) Rifle shooters so often ignor that step, especially off the bench and they pay for it. Its amazing how much variation in stock a person can sucessfully use without problems. I think you can shoot even a much less than ideal stock well if you concentrate on the basics of mounting the gun. It is a lot cheaper to learn to do it right than to try to get a stock customized. The first chore is to learn to mount the rifle. Then there may be little or no need to fuss with a new stock.

If you mount the gun properly, you'll stay away from the scope (if the scope isn't mounted too far back). Try shooting from prone or sitting with a sling. That tends to position you more realistically than from a bench and results in less recoil problem.

These calibers are all easily manageable and can be shot comfortably by everyone from adolecents to us old guys.

lilabner · « **Reply #21 on:** February 01, 2005, 05:19:04 AM »

It's true that most GIs were able to effectively manage 30-06 recoil. One reason is the Garand weighs almost 9 1/2 lb. with iron sights and well over 10 lb. in the scoped sniper version. Also, part of the gas generated is bled off to operate the action. The average GI in WW II was a couple of inches shorter and considerably lighter than today's trooper but somehow managed to haul that rifle and its heavier ammuntion long distances over difficult terrain.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #22 on:** February 01, 2005, 10:25:16 AM »

Before WWII even smaller GIs were able to handle the 03 Springfield. No gas bled off to reduce the recoil. Marines used the 03 Springfield during the first years of WWII exclusively. No wimpy autoloader for them.