Author Topic: Yukon river trip (Read 1673 times)

379 Peterbilt · « **on:** January 12, 2005, 08:09:42 PM »

I've got it in my head that my 16' Crestliner fish-hawk w/50hp Honda 4 stroke prop will get me, and limited hunting gear, from the haul road down river 300 plus miles (and back) for a moose hunt. Has anyone here made this, or a similar trip?

I would love to hear any tips you have.

I've asked this on some other boards, but would like to hear from you guys.

(Daveinthebush, I recieved your story, THANKS!!!)

Sourdough · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2005, 10:35:31 AM »

Eyesore: Since you are not an Alaskian, I have to ask this question. Have you ever seen the Yukon? As for running it, yes I have. I go out from Circle and go upstream to the Kandik river. We run twenty foot boats or larger. 16ft is too small for the Yukon.

First: You can't haul enough fuel, and it's a long way between places to get fuel. Yes four stroke Honda's have a better range, but not that much better. I don't think you have the range to get from one fuel stop to the next.

Second: You don't have enough freeboard, the Yukon is like the Missippi around Memphis. One minute it's flat and peaceful, 30 minutes later four foot waves. We blew an engine one year and drifted down to the Yukon, as soon as we hit the Yukon the wind started pushing us in the wrong direction, up stream. I used two five gallon buckets as sea anchors just to hold us in place.

Third: The Yukon and Tanana are very different from the rivers down south. They are loaded with silt, you can't see the gravel and sand bars through the water. They are fast. You have to have experience reading the water to avoid underwater obstructions. I've seen many boats impaled on broken spruce trees that are aimed up stream. Yes I know that sounds ridiculous, a tree with the root system down stream, and the lighter top up stream, but that is the way it is. I can explain how that happens if your interested but I think it would take too long now.

Fourth: If you are not familiar with the area you don't know where you can camp, or where you can't. A lot of that land down there is owned by Native Corporations, they do not allow trespass. I've seen boats and motors shot after confrontations with locals. That leaves you up a creek with out a paddle so to speak.

379 Peterbilt · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2005, 04:43:14 PM »

Sourdough,

Thanks for enlighting me in your response. Not really what I wanted to hear but definately what I needed to hear.

On hauling fuel,
My boat is rated for 1200 pounds from the factory. Add 215# motor and 185# myself and that leaves 800 pounds left for gas/gear/meat. I have fuel drums that will hold enough to get me between Tanana, Ruby, and Galena

On waves & weather,
I am prepared to stay away from nasty water, when needed. In bad weather, you will find me ashore

On natives & camping,
I am well aware of their private land holdings and the tresspass issues. As far as any "confrontation" I will tell you that if there were to be any at all, it would be initiated on their part, as I have no intention of messing with them whatsoever. I know they resent people like me due to the color of my skin, and my geographic location.

As far as underwater spruce trees and on natives shooting other hunters boats & motors...I would like you to elaborate...

You have my full attention.

Respectfully, Eyesore

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2005, 05:48:30 PM »

Eyesore: One of the things that is not in my story is the nights. Many a time the banks were too high and finding a suitable camping site involved traveling extra miles. I would run into native land, posted, and the signs were not that well placed. One night I camped at an old fire, still smoldering and a couple of people, (natives?) asked if I was only going to spend the night. No hastle, but an interesting conservation.

Please re-read my story and kind of close your mind and imagine it as it is happening. I was really scared at times. No radio contact, did not know where I was or any clue where'd I'd end up.

If the motor fails there are about 12 native villages before you get to Russia.

Sourdough and I are just trying to help without becoming a part of a search and rescue team. :roll:

Sourdough · « **Reply #4 on:** January 13, 2005, 05:51:37 PM »

During Spring Flood large spruce trees get undermined and wash away in the current. Since the upper part of the tree is biggest it hangs up with the root system downstream. As the year goes by the roots get covered by silt and dirt. By winter it is firmly planted on the bottom, with the main part of the tree aimed up stream. Winter sets in with thick ice freezing around the upper tree. Spring comes with breakup, the river brakes up sometimes violently. Large chuncks of ice go down river, wiping anything out in their way. The ice that surrounds the tree has usually melted along the edges of the river. Large slabs of ice hit them and they snap off the tree trunk at the bottom of the ice (water level). Since the roots are firmly anchored the main trunk is aimed upstream, a direction you would not expect it. It impels unwarry boats.

As for the Natives, It seems every year I hear about someone having problems with young natives down in the area you are talking about. About four years ago a group of four people (non Alaskians) were floating the Koyokuk, up stream from Galena. They ran into a group on armed young local men. Rafts were punctured, guns and meat taken. And a lot of intemidation at gun point. The four men were left sitting till rescue came and got them. They were unable to wait around till the troopers could track down the assailents to press charges.

Every year I hear stories about confrontations with locals along the Yukon. It's just as bad upstream as it is downstream.

Like I said going down would not be the problem. Coming back with a load, would be hard. A lot of people ship their meat out of Galena, that way they only have their camp and fuel to haul back up river.

I really don't mean to sound so negative, I'm just trying to be honest. I've seen lots of people have to leave their boats along the river due to motor problems, or they rip a hole in the boat. Often the cost involved with going back to get it is more than it's worth. Sometimes when they get back, motor and all gear are missing, sometimes the whole boat. Never to be seen again.

If you really want to go it would be a great trip, just make sure you go with another boat. Also make sure the people in the other boat are experienced river men. I've seen GIs from Fort Wainwright get into some awful messes out there.

379 Peterbilt · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2005, 06:20:22 PM »

Daveinthebush & Sourdough,

Thanks again for the help. No negativaty taken on my part. None at all. I really prefer the "No B.S" responses, as opposed to any sugarcoating.

I may reconsider this, but at the same time, its one of those things in life that a fellow may regret not doing, later in life. I've been planning this trip for a long time, so it will be damn hard to talk myself out of it.

I wish I could find out a little more on the aleged "harassment" (to put it nicely) that you speak of, Sourdough. I have no doubt that you know what you talking about in regards to natives, by the way.

I can remember a time when bears were the primary concern. :eek:

Again fellas, thanks for your input.

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2005, 07:39:40 PM »

Some, not all, natives of Alaska and probably other areas of the United States, resent the whitemans intrusion onto what was their land. You would be in Athabaskin Indian terroritory. Some are militant and some are my friends and I would help them in a heartbeat. Some consider their land, to be where ever they are currently standing.

Back in I think 98, some hunters coming back for a hunt on the Koyukuk were assulted on their return trip. I don't know the whole story but actually met two of the guys in 99. Yes, the natives were caught and sentenced to jail time. Worse case, maybe.

Lots of people run the Yukon. Canoests, kayakers, boaters, hunters...... I have not heard of one person having a problem since I moved to Alaska in 99. If I get the chance to do it again I will.

We have one friend here, Dabigmoose, who is a native Alaskan. I will PM him and ask him to answer your post here. He may be able to enlighten you some and provide assistance.

None of want to smash your dream. We just want to see you have a safe one.

379 Peterbilt · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2005, 07:51:47 PM »

Thank you Dave. I eagerly await any response this gentleman may have. I would really enjoy a native's perspective on this matter. I have the utmost respect for their ways, traditions, and lifestyle. Hopefully, its a 2 way street.

dabigmoose · « **Reply #8 on:** January 14, 2005, 02:35:24 AM »

Well were to start the river is dangerous for anyone who goes there
locals are lost every year so heed the warnings about the mighty Yukon.
The locals are for the most part are friendly but ya got to remember they
only have been brought into the modern world in the last 40 years

Some of the elders resent the way of change and the alcohol problems brought by this change to their lifestyle so it filters down to the youth. Also
outside Trophy hunters have put tremendous pressure on game reserves.
It is not as bad as it used to be the koykuk incident use to be worst but ya have a village up there of 60 people who live year round and some have never left there to know the outside world my wifes great uncle Andrew Edwin 83 and still uses dog team .But you will not be down tis far.

I would listen to Dave and sourdough this is not a novice trip and
you will never make it back haulin 900lbs of Moose Meat and remember
its athabaskan indian not ( half a gas can).hope wife dont see this!!!

I would try a different route like west of fairbanks on the yukon
Dive to Manly hotsprings and put in there the people are very friendly.
But respect there native ways on the river and posted land .This would be a better idea for the lone hunter also you need to beware of the barges on the river they swamp small boats all the time.remember alaska waters hypothermia will get you before you swim out.

here is a link to some of the regional native corps doyon is the one you
will be around plus numerus village corps and they dont have computer links. manley is beanridge village corp and tanana is tozitna corp.
you can contact the manley hotspings road house and lodge
for some info ask for bob lee.

Dabigmoose

http://www.doyon.com/links.html

379 Peterbilt · « **Reply #9 on:** January 14, 2005, 03:09:54 AM »

Dabigmoose,

I like yer name. Thanks too for your perspective on this. Thanks to all of you who recomend not doing this trip, as you've just ensured me on drawing DM827 or DM829 koyukuk. Ha ha.

Anyway, sound river advise as per the Yukon. I'm starting to think I am hard headed (normaly not) as every body of water I've been on gets mega wind/waves...Also, people canoe this year after year. I have a much better ride than any canoe. (sorry to sound this way)

Dabigmoose, there is no way I would attempt to haul 900 pounds of moose. I would donate a couple quarters to the local folks.

Well, time to rethink my roadhunting plan again. :wink:

Again, thanks fella's. I mean that.

379 Peterbilt · « **Reply #10 on:** January 14, 2005, 07:21:46 PM »

Dave, you still have that 17' Lowe, or something comperable? If this trip is to be made by myself, I think your all correct in advising that I go with a "drafting partner" so to speak. Soooo...

Quote from: Daveinthebush

If I get the chance to do it again I will.

Dave, by "chance" did you mean "invitation". I Cant think of a better "wing man" (2nd boat) than someone who's already made the trip !!! :-)

I just don't give up, do I?

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #11 on:** January 14, 2005, 07:41:24 PM »

It is so tempting but as I teach I can not get the time off. I sold the Lowe to a VPO (Village Police Officer) when I left Nulato. Actually, fully loaded with a 30 hp Honda it did not have the power against the mighty Yukon going up stream. One of the reasons I did the trip is that once I started I could not go back, not enough power. :eek:

My suggestion is: Watch the other forum to see who wins a draw for the area. Contact them to see if you can go with some other people. Many people apply for that hunt every year and a team goes, draw tag or not.

When the winners are anounced, there should be a pfd file listing the winners and their addresses. I would find some in your area or just start calling everyone to see if you can get more people together as a group.

Yes this has problems as you don't know who you are hunting with. I would go with the other forum first.

379 Peterbilt · « **Reply #12 on:** January 14, 2005, 09:08:09 PM »

Quote from: Daveinthebush

My suggestion is: Watch the other forum to see who wins a draw for the area. Contact them to see if you can go with some other people.

Good idea. I have thought of that. About a month ago, I printed off last years "draw winners" PDF for the very reason of asking questions to guys that made the run. I printed it off because once the new winners are anounced, there will be no record of previous winners.

Yeah, whats riskier? Runnin' the Yukon with my little boat, or finding hunting partners off the internet? Ha ha

Can anyone tell me if my 20' dodge 4x4 will make it up the steese........

Just kiddin' Ha ha

Once again, I thank you all for the tips/help that you've given me!!

Sourdough · « **Reply #13 on:** January 20, 2005, 08:15:45 PM »

Eyesore: Just to let you know what kind of boat I use. I have a 16" Lowe, standup center console, twin Mercury 40s with San Leandro jet pumps. I also have a set of oar locks up front next to the front seat. That way I can sit on the front seat of the boat with a pair of oars and a rifle across my lap. I drift down stream, keeping the back of the boat aimed downstream to see what is coming up. The reason I have such a small boat is to get up the small creeks and streams, and be able to turn around to come back. The reason for the twins is I can at least come home on one engine. I can't haul anything with one engine, just me fuel and boat period.

I have often thought of going to Eagle, then going downstream. Stopping at the various rivers on the way down. Then taking out at Circle. That way you don't have to go back upstream. I have hunted the Kandik river, upstream from Circle about 90 miles. In a week and a half I only saw three Moose. Not a high concentration area there.

One other thing about floating rivers in Alaska. Yes the water is cold, and the automatic gasp reflex is so string that you can't help but intake water if you fall in. But more deadly is the silt. It is suspended rock dust in the water. The water travels so fast is does not settle to the bottom. If someone falls in their clothes soon become saturated with silt. In other words it's like having rocks in all your pockets, and stuffed downy your shirt and pants. It does not take long till your clothes are so saturated that no life jacket will keep you afloat. I watched a man fall in the Keni river, he tried to swim. When he had gone about 30 yards downstream in the current the silt weighted him down and pulled him under. This was at the mouth of the Russian river, where it flows into the Keni. There must have been over a hundred people fishing below, and most of them snagged him as he went by not knowing he was there. They could not hold him. His body was found a week later in Skilak lake. So like Dabigmoose said if you fall in it is imperative to get out quick.

379 Peterbilt · « **Reply #14 on:** January 21, 2005, 04:01:58 AM »

Sourdough,

I personaly do not have the experience with jet outboard motors like yourself, but I would like to add something if I may...

Quote from: Sourdough

I have a 16" Lowe, twin Mercury 40s with San Leandro jet pumps. I can't haul anything with one engine, just me fuel and boat period.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if ya convert a 40hp outboard prop to a jet, you just lost about 30% (hp) By my math, it means your 2 jets equate to about 55hp. Thats close to my max hp (50)

Not comparing apples with oranges (2 jets vs 1 prop) Rather the total max horsepower. All this leads me to the big question...

What do those 2 motors (w/jets) weigh?

My four stroke Honda 50hp prop weighs in at 215 pounds- pretty light in my book. My boat is rated (by Crestliner) for a max motor of 90hp, which would add 185 pounds more. I built this boat with this (weight savings) in mind, not to mention a $2,500 savings also.

My boat is rated to "haul" 1,200 pounds from the factory. Add a 215# motor, and 185# for myself, and that leaves 800# payload for gas/gear/meat. Not the best boat for an Alaskan moose hunt by any stretch of the imagination, rather one that I would like to think could be utilized, nontheless.

I dont want to appear as though I'm trying to turn the "Alaska hunting" forum into a "boating" forum, but I think this boat of mine is a hunting "tool" just like any other piece of gear...

As per your trip from Circle and up the Kandik, I bet it was an awesome trip, huh? I too have considered it due to its relative ease in access, but since I was led to believe there arent many moose in that area, I scratched it off my list.

I am starting to wonder how any of yall get any hunting done up there. By that I mean; BOATS=shallow/silty/dangerous waters. ATV'S=muddy/rutted/washed out trails. WALK-IN=long/demanding/strenuous hikes. PLANES= cloudy/windy/weather related delays. TRUCK= pavement/lack of game/waste of effort... :wink:

Sorry to sound condecending, that was simpley an attempt to arouse some humor. Ha ha

Well, as for moose hunting, I'm at a loss as to what/when/how, and most importantly WHY even do it. Ha ha!!! But, I will find a way. Its been awhile since I was last in N. Pole, but my "current" plans call for me to be in your neck of the woods at some point in Sept. It would be my privlige to buy ya a beer or a cup of coffee...

Take care...

Sourdough · « **Reply #15 on:** January 21, 2005, 07:34:13 AM »

Actually it depends on the weather as to what I use that year. If it's wet, I use the boat. I usually drift Salcacket slough. If it's an average year I use my Track Rig and go in on the Rex trail. If it's a dry year I use my 4-wheeler or Volkswagen Dune Buggy on the Rex. I also hunt down along the Denali highway, and on the Taylor highway. Again depending on whether it is a dry or wet year as to which rig I take to hunt with. I don't walk anywhere period. Bad back, bad feet, and bad knees. I pretty much stay away from the Dalton due to the restrictions up there. I'm not walking five miles just to shoot a Caribou again. Been there, done that, not again. The only Caribou I've ever taken with a bow was on the Dalton, I did not feel like walking that day.

379 Peterbilt · « **Reply #16 on:** January 29, 2005, 10:04:30 PM »

In continuing my research per the Yukon river- 2 quick questions;

1. Are all islands "public" or state owned, thus campable?

2. Is there any online sites I can visit that will show all state & federal lands along the river and tributaries?

Thanks

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2005, 04:27:19 PM »

1. No

2. http://www.akmining.com/boating.htm Go to the prospecting section, look for the links page. There are several sources listed for BLM, and other agencies listing maps and such. It might take some research to find the correct map. But there is a site there that will tell you.

Dand · « **Reply #18 on:** January 30, 2005, 05:17:40 PM »

In western Alaska I have used a rough rule of thumb: along rivers and lakes, public land is usually (not always) the land BELOW the ordinary high water mark. This often means that an unvegatated portion of a sand bar can be pulic lands. If the weather is real rainy and sand bar very low, be careful one can end up with, as one old Native guy said with a twinkle in his eye - "They woke up in a water bed!"

However, if one wanders onto vegatated lands to pee, gather firewood or enjoy the view, you may be trespassing on private lands. I think you might look over the Alaska Dept Natural Resources for some help too. Hot spots like one on Kodiak Island are being researched, mapped and put online to help folks. I haven't checked out lands along the Yukon.

Also the state is moving ahead in court to assert more of their authority over navigable waterways and adjacent lands. But it will take a while to get that sorted out.

HTH

379 Peterbilt · « **Reply #19 on:** March 29, 2005, 09:04:39 AM »

There has been a slight change of plans from my original thread starting post. That said, I would like some further advise perhaps...

I still intend on running the Yukon, 'cept now only a small portion of it. I now have a 12' Zodiac and need to get an outboard for it. Assuming the worse case senario; that being headed upriver with 1,000 pounds, what size hp motor would get the job done? I know the easy answer is go big, but I would like to go with a 15hp (2 stroke) or so, as motor weight and flying said gear is a concern. I am thinking that a 9.9 is on the small size, while on the other hand a 25 (while fine) may prove to be more that what is needed.

So is a 15hp doable upriver loaded?

Thanks

Moose-Hunter · « **Reply #20 on:** March 29, 2005, 04:36:49 PM »

12' Zodiac and a 15 hp outboard for the Yukon? Have you been on the Yukon before?

379 Peterbilt · « **Reply #21 on:** March 30, 2005, 01:55:05 AM »

No, I have not.

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #22 on:** March 30, 2005, 08:52:17 AM »

Eyesore: Which part of the Yukon do you intend on running. It would make a difference. If you put in at Dawson and ran to the haul road bridge you would only need enough power to get from channel to channel. Some one could drop off and pick you up at each point.

379 Peterbilt · « **Reply #23 on:** March 31, 2005, 01:42:01 AM »

Dave,

I wish it was all easy downriver traveling. But, the part of the Yukon I intend to travel is between Koyukuk and Galena, with some upriver travel (loaded) involved.

The easy answer is to opt for higher horsepower such as a 25hp, and I may end up going that route. The only advantage I can think of in running a 25 would be in speedy travel with full load when headed upriver.

However there seems to be many more disadvantages with that big of motor; namely cost, weight when flying and the associated costs, reduced payload (while minimal) and possible theft of a more expensive motor as opposed to a 15hp say.

I know of a guy that told me he did some upriver traveling (with a moose) on the Yukon with a 9.9hp, tho he did admit it was rather slow going at about 3.5 mph.

I know I at times appear to always want to go "under equiped" but, its as you say; A guy either brings to much, or not enough on hunt trips.

I guess what I was hoping for was someone that utilizes this type of gear under similar conditions that could state what works for them, or conversely, what has failed them.

I've been told that the natives that live on the Yukon run rather small craft, at least by everyone elses standards. I am sure you have witnessed this first hand while living down in Nulato (?)

Anyway, I have also considered hiring a river transporter for the haul back upriver as another option.

At least everyone should be getting a chuckle outta my trip planning. :-D