Author Topic: Synthetic oil problem...? (Read 5157 times)

TM7 · « **on:** January 08, 2005, 10:05:53 AM »

I have a 1996 GMC 3500 4x4 with the 350 and auto trans. This truck only has about 40,000 miles on it and runs pretty good. I had been using petroleum oils in it on a regular interval. But a buddy suggested I switch to a synthetic oil which I did. We put a 5-30 synthetic in, not mobil One; I believe it was a Valvoline full synthetic motor oil. My problem is ever since switching to this syn oil I get pretty loud valve train noise for the first 15-20 seconds during the first cold morning startup and for 2 minutes or so the valves are noisey if you drive the truck until it starts to warm up. I think the lifters are taking a long time to pressurize with this oil. So the question is Should I drain it and go back to petroleum oils? or not to worry?

...........Thanx.........TM7

Paladin · « **Reply #1 on:** January 08, 2005, 04:51:48 PM »

sounds like the wrong oil filter to me

DirtyHarry · « **Reply #2 on:** January 10, 2005, 09:52:09 PM »

Even though the engine only has 40k, it's still 9 years old. It is generally not a good idea to switch an old engine over to synthetic as it will expose weakness's in the engine, such as the slop in your valvetrain. It also will clean the sludge build up around gasket material and will begin to leak. If you want to continue to run synthetic I suggest you go with a heavier weight synthetic at minimum, or if it was me I would just switch back to regular old dino oil....

SAWgunner · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2005, 09:26:08 AM »

He is spot-on about the leaking problem. My first car I bought while I was in the Army was a 1994 Probe GT (with the Mazda V-6 in it). I switched over to synthetic and immediately began noticing leaking around the cam covers and heads. It got to a point about 6 motnhs later, I had to have the motor rebuilt (62k miles on the original). That cost me $4400, and the thing still used oil after the fact (I attribute that to the shady character of a mechaninc that "rebuilt" my motor). Anyway after contacting the mechaninc in the family, he said the same thing. It is great in a new car, but, man, look out with a few years.miles under the hood.

SAW

Quote from: DirtyHarry

Even though the engine only has 40k, it's still 9 years old. It is generally not a good idea to switch an old engine over to synthetic as it will expose weakness's in the engine, such as the slop in your valvetrain. It also will clean the sludge build up around gasket material and will begin to leak. If you want to continue to run synthetic I suggest you go with a heavier weight synthetic at minimum, or if it was me I would just switch back to regular old dino oil....

SAWgunner · « **Reply #4 on:** January 11, 2005, 09:28:08 AM »

He is spot-on about the leaking problem. My first car I bought while I was in the Army was a 1994 Probe GT (with the Mazda V-6 in it). I switched over to synthetic and immediately began noticing leaking around the cam covers and heads. It got to a point about 6 motnhs later, I had to have the motor rebuilt (62k miles on the original). That cost me $4400, and the thing still used oil after the fact (I attribute that to the shady character of a mechaninc that "rebuilt" my motor). Anyway after contacting the mechaninc in the family, he said the same thing. It is great in a new car, but, man, look out with a few years.miles under the hood.

SAW

Quote from: DirtyHarry

Even though the engine only has 40k, it's still 9 years old. It is generally not a good idea to switch an old engine over to synthetic as it will expose weakness's in the engine, such as the slop in your valvetrain. It also will clean the sludge build up around gasket material and will begin to leak. If you want to continue to run synthetic I suggest you go with a heavier weight synthetic at minimum, or if it was me I would just switch back to regular old dino oil....

MSP Ret · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2005, 10:52:03 AM »

OK, what do you guys suggest for me! I have a 96 Dodge Ram 318 I have had since new, 69K on it now and oil and filter changed (dino) every 3,000 miles since new with no problems. I switched to Mobil one synthetic about 500-600 miles ago. Should I go back to dino? Will it hurt to switch back? Do you think I could stay with synthetic or what if I just went to my next change for the synthetic (that would be about another 2.5-5K) and then returned to dino? The trucks running fine now... Opinions please...Thanks....<><.... :?

DirtyHarry · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2005, 04:35:43 PM »

MSP, If you are running synthetic now and have no problems, you will not have any. The problems occur with old and /or high mileage engines which have problems already. If it were me I would definately stay with the synthetic.....

MSP Ret · « **Reply #7 on:** January 14, 2005, 01:16:31 PM »

Thanks DH, I'd like to stay with it and most likely will after what you said. I was having no problems with my engine or truck and would like to keep it that way....<><.... :grin:

HogFan · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2005, 05:35:55 AM »

MSP,

My Ford F150 has 76,000 miles on it, and when I bought it it had 60,000 on it. My first oil change was to Mobil 1 5w-30, and never had any problems. I also ran an 85 Chevy I had with Mobil 1 with no porblems either. If you are not experiencing problems yet, probably will not have any then. Stay Synthetic. I run Castrol GTX in my wife's Camry but unlike my truck it stays in the garage which is aroung 55F even when it's -28F outside. My truck sits outside, so that is why I run Mobil 1.

HogFan

MSP Ret · « **Reply #9 on:** January 26, 2005, 04:02:07 PM »

Thanks Hogfan, it's still in the truck and it's still running great so I guess it looks like oil changes every 5-6k now with synthetic instead of every 3k with dino....<><....

poncaguy · « **Reply #10 on:** March 06, 2005, 06:41:56 AM »

My 98 Z71 had 110,00 when I bought it. Use Mobile 1 15-50w, have 147,000 now, uses no oil at all.

leadbutt · « **Reply #11 on:** March 06, 2005, 11:33:06 AM »

I switched my 98 F-150 over to Mobile -1 at 42,000 and haven't had any trouble, but the shop did warn me about it,, but we did an engine flush and let it set for 4 hours, before going back with the Mobile-1

mrlizzzard · « **Reply #12 on:** March 06, 2005, 12:51:04 PM »

Mobil engineer told me to use Mobil ! in a new car but only after 30,000 miles thereby giving engine time to wear in.
lizzzard

MSP Ret · « **Reply #13 on:** March 06, 2005, 02:57:41 PM »

Thanks guys, These are all great posts and excellent information...It looks as if it's synthetic from now on, and into the lawn mowers and equipment when it's drained!!!....<><.... :grin:

msorenso · « **Reply #14 on:** March 08, 2005, 07:01:51 AM »

Have a 96 Camaro SS with a LT-1 350 with 310hp. Always used Quaker state 10-30 sythetic. The only diff is this engine came with Quaker Stte sythetic and factory suggested using sythetic. The moter now has 101,000miles on it still gets 27-30mpg in 6th gear and has many open runs up to 150-155 mph. Which equals 5,500 rpms in 5th gear. Runs just like the day it was new.

DirtyHarry · « **Reply #15 on:** March 09, 2005, 09:55:07 PM »

mrlizzard, are you sure he told you 30,000? because most camshaft break-in recommendations are for about 20 minutes, and rings are seated at less than a couple hundred miles. However on a new vehicle or piece of equipment, I generally run the oil that came in it until the first recommended change and then switch to synthetic.....

Brett · « **Reply #16 on:** July 14, 2005, 04:43:56 PM »

My brother has a 1973 International Harvester Scout II that he bought new and has run Mobil 1 in since his first oil change. Not sure how many miles he has on it but well over a 100 thousand anyway. A few years back he tore the engine down to make some modifications, not because he was having any problems. He told me that there was no sludge in the oil pan at all, all interior parts looked like new and measured well within specs. showing little if any wear. That sold me on synthetic oils.

The Powder Keg · « **Reply #17 on:** May 21, 2006, 01:15:33 PM »

Quote from: DirtyHarry

mrlizzard, are you sure he told you 30,000? because most camshaft break-in recommendations are for about 20 minutes, and rings are seated at less than a couple hundred miles. However on a new vehicle or piece of equipment, I generally run the oil that came in it until the first recommended change and then switch to synthetic.....

If engine break-in was a problem with synthetics, manufacturers would not use it as a factory fill. See www.mobil1.com for some good info on synthetics.

DirtyHarry · « **Reply #18 on:** May 22, 2006, 06:58:49 PM »

There is no problem using synthetic for break-in on a modern production engine.. I simply said I run the factory fill up until the first recommended change then switch to synthetic. If the factory fill is indeed synthetic, thats what I run. My SRT4 came with mobil1 5w/30 synthetic from the factory so thats what I ran, I still run synthetic in it, but at a different weight and from another manufacturer..

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #19 on:** May 25, 2006, 11:56:03 PM »

dont buy into the breakin deal. The vette i had came from the factory with syn. oil and every new truck ive bought has got it on the first oil change. Total flushing isnt nessisary either as synthetics are compatable with regular oil. If they werent they wouldnt be able to sell blended synthetics. A camshaft is broke in the first time the motor is started and with the materials and close tolorances they use in manufacturing new motors these days theres no need for motor breakin either. IMO your best bet with a new vehicle is to run the crap out of it right away. If somethings wrong its going to show up while its still under warantee. I remember back when mobil one first came out. A buddy of mine had a rep from mobil in his garage and they showed two brand new out of the box chev 350s one had mobil one one had convetional oil. Both ran wide open for 24 hours straight and then were tore down. The convetional oiled motor was using oil and showed significant wear. The syn. oil motor showed now wear what so ever. All parts were tore down and measured. Another little demo he did was to dip a screwdriver blade in each and have you pick them up with two fingers. the syn oil dipped one you couldnt hold on to. He then put a torch to the syn and the convetional and couldnt get the syn to deteriorate but the conv. oil turned to slug in a couple minutes. Im a firm believer in it. I live in the north where it gets below zero and with syn. oil my truck cranks over like its 70 degrees in the morning with syn. As far as price i can buy syn and change my own oil as cheaply as going to a quick lube and having it done for me with conventional oil.

magooch · « **Reply #20 on:** May 27, 2006, 05:16:05 AM »

In my working years I was a mechanic in a very large industrial plant. At one point the management was talked into using some very expensive synthetic lubricants. An outside research firm was given the task to test various types of lubricants and then report their findings.

I won't go into all the details, but what they determined was that a good quality petroleum based lubricant performed at least as well as the very high priced ($100 per gallon) synthetic. This varified what our practical experience had proven over many years.

While it is true that synthetics have a wider heat range and the molicules are more durable, in the end it is contamination that really makes the difference. And the best defense against contamination is to change the lubricant and filters at shorter intervals.

The bottom line is that you can have good results with synthetics, but if you don't change it as often as you would petroleum based, then you're fooling yourself if you think you're coming out ahead.

Actual tests have shown that most internal combustion engines will probably start leaking oil through the various gaskets and seals and thus will need repairs, long before the bearings etc. wear out if regular petroleum oil is used and changed at regular intervals. My experience is that the oil starts to darken around 2000 miles; on newer engines, maybe 3000 miles. That's when it's time to change it.

I've seen very impressive tests done with certain additives that would absolutely benefit any base lubricant. I wish I knew exactly what the additive is, but the outfit wouldn't divulge it. There certainly isn't any lack of additives out there--if you're into that stuff. I've used some of it, but I'll never know if it did any good, because I've never worn out any of my rigs. I usually trade them off, or my wife wrecks them before they wear out. One of my pickups is nearly 40 years old and it's still going strong. I never used anything but regular Valvoline in it. I change the oil and filter every 2000 miles.

ihookem · « **Reply #21 on:** May 28, 2006, 11:54:37 AM »

I have used synthetic several times over the years and have not noticed any difference at all in performance or fuel mileage. I have Amsoil synthetic in my Duramax diesel now and not even a tenth of a mile per gallon increase in mileage or performance, but with a diesel I am going to use it in the winter for easier starts and less engine wear in hopes to not ever have an engine overhaul. In moderate temps I think it's a waste of money. This is why I think it is a waste. I just got rid of my 96 f-150 4.9 6 cyl., I parked it outside since it was almost new 24k mi. I used whatever oil was on sale and changed the oil and filter about every 6,000 miles until 180,000 miles and then every 10,000 miles until I junked it at 225,400 miles. The engine ran as good as new and the last days burned a quart of oil every 5,000 miles. The truck before that was an 86 Ford 150 4.9 6 cyl., bought new , parked outside it's whole life till I sold it at 213k . I ran synthetic once when it was new and then whatever oil was on sale. I averaged an oil and filter change every 4,300 miles through the life of the truck. At the end it burned a quart of oil about every 1,000 miles. I ran these motors hard too because the power just ain't there. So how can synthetic be so much better? Both the trucks were junk in almost everyway except the engine so the oil did it's job. I am sure I could have ran the 96 engine to 300k mi.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #22 on:** May 28, 2006, 12:24:01 PM »

I see one large advantage in the use of synthetic oil. I use mobile 1 0w30 for the winter months in my 2000 f150. In NW Wisconsin there are days the temp does not get above 0. With this oil the engine turns over and starts like a summer day. That alone make it worth its expensive price tag. DIY oil changes make it affordable.

Cheese

Skeeterbaymac · « **Reply #23 on:** May 28, 2006, 02:11:20 PM »

I have been using Amsoil for a good number of years. I put it in all five of my trucks, the wifes van, in every tractor on the farm, the bulldozer and backhoe as well. Gas motors, Diesel's you name it. All my current trucks were bought new, and they got it from day one. But back when I switched from regular oil to Amsoil most of those trucks had around 50-60 thousand miles. I never had leak problems back then. Heck I even use the stuff in lawn mowers, generators and the four wheelers. I got no complaints about the stuff.

We change the pickups and one tons about every 7500 miles and the tractors and heavy equipment get changed twice a year. Like others have said, the cold weather start ups are better with the synthetics. I know a guy that has a construction company and he uses Amsoil in all his heavy equipment. He NEVER changes the oil. He uses pre filters and all he ever does is change the filter and re- top off the oil. He has been doing that for years with no problems what so ever. I wouldn't even want to guess the hours he has on that oil in his equipment.

What I really like best of all is the gear lube! I put Amsoil gear lube in every gear box on the farm and they all run better and cooler! Especially gear boxes on things like hay mowers and brush hogs and such. With regular gear lube I could barely place my hand on a mower gear box, after all day use. I went to synthetic and even after 12 hours of running they are as cool as if I just started them.

The only gripe I have is the cost of the stuff. They have raised the prices about three times in the last year! We buy the stuff by the five gallon bucket and/or cases at a time and the bill is starting to be painful. If they raise the price much more I will have to start looking else where for oil. :cry:

BULLMASTIFF · « **Reply #24 on:** June 14, 2006, 04:04:08 PM »

I am a firm believer in AMSOIL. I'll give you just a quick example. I have a 78 Ford Bronco. Lifted and running 36" Super swampers. Now anyone who has owned a Ford truck knows the "whine" of the power steering pump. They are a notorious weak link. Put 36" tires on a rig, and you smoke the pump and gearbox in no time at all with conventional lubes - I know - 3 pumps and one gearbox. With the synthetic ATF in it, it would last 10 times longer than conventional ATF. It would eventually start the whine, but I got a whole lot more life out of the synthetic lube. I then read where truck drivers were running the new 0w-30 series 2000 in their power steering (yeah, dad is a AMSOIL dealer, so I get access to all the dealer literature stuff) so I thought, why not. This stuff is super slick. Stick your finger in it, wipe it off, and your finger is still slippery. So I put the 0w-30 in the power steering pump. No whine, the pump gets no where near as hot. That was over 5 years ago. Same pump - and still no whine. Did I get a really good power steering pump this time - I doubt it - it's still a Ford power steering pump

As for engines - I change the filter every 4500 and then top it off with a fresh quart. I then do a complete oil change every year. I have a 99 Powerstroke w/ 147,000 + on it. The oil still has a clean look to it. Sure, you can see some blackness to it, but I've seen gas engines with fewer miles on them with darker oil that got changed every 3,000 with conventional oil. The secret is you have to change the filter and top off. You can do that with a Synthetic, not with conventional conventional oil. And true, contamination is usually what destroys an engine, but most synthetics have a high level of detergent in them, and as long as you change that filter, you will be fine. It is more important to change the filter on a regular basis with synthetics than the oil itself.

Sorry, I guess it wasn't a quick example after all.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #25 on:** June 27, 2006, 06:22:08 AM »

I am not going to spend a lot of time trying to convert anyone but there are a couple of things I would like to add to this forum. I have a background as a development engineer for an automotive company and retired after 39 years. I watched synthetics arrive and the first ones out were not all that good. Time has improved them and they do now have some benefits. Most valuable is slightly more stable viscosity with temperature variation and slightly less tendency to sludge. Standard petroleum changed at regular intervals (lower mileage on short distance drive schedules) will give all the engine protection you need. If you are running a high performance engine with higher than standard spring rates on the valves a friction and wear improving additive could be an advantage and synthetics rarely have any advantage in this situation. Measuring friction reducing capability with your fingers on a screwdriver blade is totally nonsense as you do not have any skin to metal situations in the engine. There are a couple of additives that actually work and it is not Slick 50 or any of the teflon based additives. I have found one that actually does work but it is expensive and generally not needed as long as you are using a standard engine on factory recommended petroleum oil changed regularly. End of soapbox.

ufgators68 · « **Reply #26 on:** December 01, 2006, 08:17:44 AM »

I've been using Castrol Syntec Blend since about '97 and I think it helps BUT I have had the same problem with the three vehicles I've run it in. The oil pressure switch starts acting up between 100k and 110k and it only does it in the winter. It'll either not move or fluctuate for the first couple of minutes it's running on cold mornings (less than 40 degrees F). I need to change out the oil pressure switch on my current vehicle as I type this, it's now doing that exact thing.

All three trucks were Ford Rangers with the 4.0L V-6 and all three were running Castrol Syntec Blend 10w-40.

dynodon · « **Reply #27 on:** January 08, 2007, 04:22:34 AM »

A little known trick used by some pro-racers. some of these motors make 800 HP+ "SHELL ROTELLA" This stuff is usually used in big diesel rigs, but has lots of anti-wear additives not available in typical "gasoline" motor oils. Get it at a good price from Wal-Mart or Sam's club by the gallon. Change it on a regular basis along with the filter (3000 miles). This stuff is really good!

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #28 on:** January 15, 2007, 12:13:20 AM »

I guess i still have to wonder why Chevy puts it in every new vette that comes off the assembly line. I dont think theyd spend one extra cent if they thought it wasnt helping them save money on warantee work down the line.

Casull · « **Reply #29 on:** January 15, 2007, 08:19:35 AM »

I'm with Magooch on this one. I've used nothing but Castrol GTX (various grades) of dino oil for the last 15 years or so. Change the oil and filter every three thousand and no problems, and I do alot of driving. Sold my Mazda a few years ago after it reached 196,000 miles (and still did not burn any oil), bought a Toyota Celica which now has 212,000 miles on it and doesn't burn any oil (my daughter is now driving that one). My current car (BMW) has 113,000 miles and runs like new (put in seven quarts at oil change, and seven quarts come out 3,000 miles later). Haven't seen any need or benefit to the expensive synthetics IMHO.