Author Topic: where is the spine on a deer (Read 1723 times)

TrapperZach · « **on:** January 02, 2005, 04:41:40 AM »

next year if i get a shot at a deer i would like to take a spine shot so it will be at least right near where i shot it where is the spine on a deers neck. and if yall think it best not to take a neck shot were am i gona get a hart or double lung shot. i will be huntin with a H&R .243

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** January 02, 2005, 05:53:30 AM »

Ah yes, where indeed. That is the $64 question.

My advice is to forget trying to make a spine shot. Very low percentage shot. It's something that when done right is rather spectacular. When done wrong you will not find the deer at all.

You need to practice your shooting and learn the proper kill zones on a deer. The best aiming point will always be the heart/lung area. Sure they might run a bit but if you place your bullet correctly with a gun up to the chore you should find them at the end of a rather short blood trail. If you're not using a gun/bullet capable of leaving that blood trail then I'd suggest changing your gun/bullet to one that will.

The spine is a tiny target. At most well under 2" high. Miss hitting that little 2" high target and you'll not have deer in hand when the day is over. The lungs are about 10" tall. Which would you really rather be trying to hit? The best chance of being sure you hit the spine is just behind the head in the neck. BUT that head and neck are in near constant motion and small targets and not at all a sure thing.

Just accept what experience deer hunters long ago learned. Shoot for the heart/lungs.

TrapperZach · « **Reply #2 on:** January 02, 2005, 06:28:45 AM »

k so for that i should shoot behind the shoulder lower on the deer right.

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** January 02, 2005, 06:48:05 AM »

Here is an image I downloaded from somewhere long ago. I think but am not sure it came from the Remington Arms site. Since I got only the image and not the URL I have assigned it a GBO URL.

Study it and just aim to hit the heart/lung area.

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #4 on:** January 02, 2005, 06:52:38 AM »

Absolutely Correct

While you will find some that approve of a neck shot it is not the best shot to take. Trying to hit such a small target is best left for the experts.

Deer are seldom shot from a shooting bench. And, this is where most people base their shooting ability from. Sight in from the bench but then shoot offhand, sitting on the ground, leaning against a post, using your pack frame and see how you do. Base your abilities on PRACTICAL shooting, not a bench rest.

btracker1 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 02, 2005, 07:36:49 AM »

I have to absolutely agree with Greybeard as he said practice your shooting and learn the proper kill zones on a deer.practice,practice,practice makes a good shooter and hunter.I believe in Hunter ethics one of which is taking a high percentage shot that will make a quick and humane kill.
Neck shots are used by allot of hunters that are not patient enough to wait for a good broadside shot and they think they can shoot better than they really can some are so desperate to take a deer they let ETHICS fly out the window and take any shot they can get. If you cant make a good shot on an animal let it walk.

New Hampshire · « **Reply #6 on:** January 02, 2005, 07:46:12 AM »

Im with the crowd on this one. Similar spectacular results as the spine shot can be had with head shots. But same as spine shots they are extremly difficult, and your deer yends not to be pictuer worthy afterwards. If you are ahving troubles tracking then you might not be getting an exit wound. Try heavier bullets or think about a bigger caliber. The .243 is what most would call "marginal" for deer, but in the right hands it can take deer well. But be prepared for tracking deer no matter what round you choose. If you need help and tips for better tracking there are a couple of books out there on the subject, or you can talk to local archers (who make thier hunting careers on tracking deer.)
Brian M.

iiibbb · « **Reply #7 on:** January 02, 2005, 07:50:16 AM »

It was my first time hunting this year. I saw 15 deer. I took shots on 2 of them... both about 80 yrds, hit 2-4 inches behind the shoulder on each. First one ran maybe 15 yrds (180 grain .308), the otherone got no more than 30 (245 gr powebelt .50 cal muzzleloader).

I feel like I was plenty patient on both shots. Passed up many shots and a few deer to get a prime shot.

I'm still batting 1000

TrapperZach · « **Reply #8 on:** January 02, 2005, 08:31:52 AM »

thanx yall i even might end up goin with a 06 or 308 but duno

greenjeans · « **Reply #9 on:** January 02, 2005, 12:38:40 PM »

Trapper, I agree with all that has been said. Normal heart/lung shot you will have to track some, but not always. My best friend's 13 yr. old grandson got two on consecutive afternoons this week. One large doe and a great 8 point. Perfect heart/lung placement on both with 130 grain Ultra Core Lokt's out of a .270. Both deer dropped intheir tracks. Practice with a gun you are comfortable with and be able to hit where you aim. Trying to decide is just part of the fun.

ogo · « **Reply #10 on:** January 02, 2005, 12:57:46 PM »

yEP ER, Kilt many a deer with the ole 'spine' shot tney drop like a ton of brick's just one thing I was not trying to hit the spine'''''' Take the behind the sholder shot, you'll be way better off*************ogo

JPSaxMan · « **Reply #11 on:** January 02, 2005, 01:24:32 PM »

If you're using a .243, here's a tip. I just tried ballistic tips this year. When I shot my doe @ 20 yards in the heart/lung are she dropped in her tracks. No need to follow a blood trail in that instance :wink: . And as others have said, if the deer does run, there will either be a blood trail or in most cases w/ my deer, the deer goes only 20 yds or so. Which ain't that far!

It's the best spot to shoot b/c it's a fairly large area and there is margin for error, but less so than for a spine shot.

Oh by the way if you decide to go w/ the ballistic tips pick up 95 grain bullets.

goose7856 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 02, 2005, 06:50:58 PM »

Im JW about neck shots.........say you are using a ballistic tip or a fragile bulle that breaks when it hits the animal.....if you shoot in the neck, and the bullet break into a bunch of pieces, isnt there a large chance that deer is going to drop, or something vital is going to be hit?? I mean, if you hit the Trachea, jugular, or the neck the deer will die, and you will find it.....and theres probably alot of other arteries in there that will cause death but thats the only ones I can remember :lol:

I always take shoulder shots or right behind the shoulder, but I am just wondering why those shots wouldnt be just as sucessful as a behind the shoulder/in the shoulder shot??

TIA

Graybeard · « **Reply #13 on:** January 03, 2005, 03:07:30 AM »

Quote

I mean, if you hit the Trachea, jugular, or the neck the deer will die, and you will find it.....and theres probably alot of other arteries in there that will cause death but thats the only ones I can remember

WRONG! Go straight to jail, do not collect $200. :-D

If you hit the wind pipe or trachea you ain't ever gonna find that deer. Yeah it will die but you'll never see it. Jugular sure you might find it but there will likely be no blood trail so how good a tracker are you? There is a lot of non vital tissue in the neck and it's all muscle. Not the proper place to be shooting deer.

iiibbb · « **Reply #14 on:** January 03, 2005, 04:19:37 AM »

I've been reading a few articles about kill shots. You want the deer to run/suffer as little as possible... that is if you want it to taste the best. Apparently the adrenaline dump and lactic acid buildup are not condusive to the best flavor.

This really makes me wonder about dog drives too... I mean besides having to share with 10 other guys... the deer has been run to death. I wouldn't think it tastes the best.

The conclusion of the article was that although there are more instantaniously lethal shots... heart/lung was the quickest and most reliable shot.

BnSC · « **Reply #15 on:** January 03, 2005, 04:50:38 AM »

I'll agree and disagree... The neck shot will put 'em down in their tracks. However, choosing when to take that shot is also a must. My dad and I have used that shot on numerous kills. Note that the vast majority of these kills are inside of 100 yds, w/ many being inside of 50...

It is correct that the neck is a very "moveable" part on a deer. What will work w/o fail is to take a "quartering to" shot in the portion of the neck that is right in front of the shoulder. This allow the bullet to travel through the neck, spine, blood vessels, windpipe, and on into the vitals.

I will only take this shot on a still, preferrably feeding, deer. As far as being impatient and not waiting for a lung shot, I'll pass on the lung shot and wait for the neck shot if the deer is calm and feeding. I can't see how it would be unethical to put something down instanteously versus shooting it and having it run aways before expiring..

If I can brace on the tree or a rail, I'll take the neck shot. If there is any questions as to whether I can make the shot under the conditions of the day, I'll send it through the boiler room..

I sum it up like this, I've neck shot still deer @ 100 yds, but also lung shot moving deer @ 20 yds.....

I'll probably get flamed, but we've gotten way too many kills w/o losing any for me to say it is bad shot...

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 03, 2005, 04:52:22 AM »

Take the behind the shoulder shot, you'll be way better off and you have a larger target area.

I dropped 8 of 10 deer this season in there tracks with this shot. :grin:

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 03, 2005, 05:40:25 AM »

I like a high lung shot with the 243. Often if the shot is a bit high it will clip the spine. In my experience even if it comes within a couple of inches of the spine it clips the lungs and the shock produced appears to be enough to upset the central nervous system and knock the animal down long enough for it to expire from oxygen and blood loss. There are no major bones to go through and little meat is destroyed. In a neck shot often a shot just off the spine can knock the deer down only to have it get up again with little damage to any vital organs.

rockbilly · « **Reply #18 on:** January 03, 2005, 06:09:34 AM »

A young man shot a deer on my place this fall, hit it about midway in the spine, it went down. He had never field dressed a deer so he came and got me to help him. I drove the truck back over to the place he said the deer was located, no deer. We found the deer about 60 yards down the creek, still alive, trying to pull it's self along with the front legs. Had to shoot it again to kill it.

The moral of this story, the spine shot did not drop the deer where it stood, and it caused a lot of meat damage by being shot twice. The spine shot almost made mince meat out of the entire backstrap.

I hunt, probably always will, but I try to be humane in doing so. I don't like to shoot any animal when I can't make an instant kill, or at least as quickly as possible. I think you should stick to GBs advice and practice until you can make an effective heart/lung shop. In most cases they drop in their tracks. As for changing guns, thats not the answer. Stick with the .243, but learn where to place the shot and practice, practice, practice.

JPSaxMan · « **Reply #19 on:** January 03, 2005, 09:58:26 AM »

With my experience w/ ballistic tips, when I took the behind-the-shoulder shot, the exit hole was fairly large (in other words, BIG)...so I'm sure the shock from the bullet exiting will do the damage needed to do to kill the deer.

Grubbs · « **Reply #20 on:** January 04, 2005, 05:20:40 AM »

The same place it is on every other animal on the face of the earth.

bgjohn · « **Reply #21 on:** January 04, 2005, 08:15:22 AM »

If you look from the top the spine is right down the middle.

But seriously, I always take the brain shot. I'm sure most of you aren't as good a shot as me so don't you try it. :lol:
JM :wink:

TrapperZach · « **Reply #22 on:** January 07, 2005, 12:42:17 AM »

thanx yall and this has been a great help expicaly the deer vitals chart graybeard thank you all. i will proly be takin that lung hart shot im goin to my new place to shoot this after noon so i got rest of winter then spring and summer to practice. :grin: also if i hit the lungs right around the middle of em will this do the job fast or should i try for the lower heart lung shot.

Chuck White · « **Reply #23 on:** January 07, 2005, 01:16:49 AM »

TrapperZach; If you hit in the middle of the heart-lung area, your deer won't go to far! Sometimes they drop right where the are standing!

When you want it to drop right where it is every time, with less chance of wounding than the neck shot, a hit on GB's post, right where the yellow dot marked shoulder blade will do it!

nico243 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 07, 2005, 02:16:03 PM »

Quote from: New Hampshire

The .243 is what most would call "marginal" for deer, but in the right hands it can take deer well. But be prepared for tracking deer no matter what round you choose.
Brian M.

I am a professional deer stalker/manager over here in the UK.
although I do admittedly use .308 for large deer and 200yd+ culling (only when absolutely neccesary) I mainly use .243 for general stalking/accompanying clients etc. IMHO it is more than suitable for the job, easily taking even large red-deer out 200yds when neccesary, I did look into a 25-06 (as in an earlier post) but I will stick with .243 & .308 for now at least.

Shot placement is the all important factor, cario-vascular (heart'n'lung) shots are the best to go for (although even with this shot the deer may well "RUN-DEAD" for anything upto 100mtrs, due to adrenaline)

Upon the bullet striking the chosen target the beast's reaction to shot, if carefully observed will 9 out of 10 times tell you hit the desired aiming point or not:-

HEART/LUNG SHOT - deer will (usually) make a high bound forward/ or kick out with it hind legs, this shot will also produce a bright red frothy blood trail with pink/white flecks of lung tissue in it.

STOMACH SHOT - deer tends to hunch-up and staggers away into nearby cover with head held low, this shot usually produces a lot of green-splashes of rumen from the stomach content sometimes with a lot of pins (hair) and very little blood at all.

LIVER SHOT - deer tends to run with its head well forward and is usually dead within 100mtrs, the blood trail tends to be very thick and glutinous and very, very dark red.

I assume US deer (although a bit larger than ours generally) die just the same :wink:
I hope this may be of some use

rickt300 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 10, 2005, 04:55:39 PM »

I hate to give an alternate opinion on neck shots but they have worked for me many times. I usually shoot just in front of the lower edge of the shoulder blade on broadside shots, frontal shots being more obvious but still no higher than the shoulder blade. I have done ths on deer, elk and feral hogs with 100% drops. On the other hand a solid hit behind the shoulder makes meat every time too.

147 Grain · « **Reply #26 on:** June 02, 2005, 08:28:47 PM »

I don't recommend spine shots unless you're an expert marksman.

To do so, place the vertical crosshair on the front portion of the front leg and the horizontal crosshair about 66% up the body will do the trick on deer or elk.

Elk's Bone Structure - Deer are Similar

Following the forward portion of the front leg about 2/3'rds up to where the neck meets the spine. There are a lot of major support bones in this area that when broken, should anchor the animal very quickly.

Elk Anatomy Overview: http://www.bowhunting.net/NAspecies/elk2.html

Heart and Lungs

Slightly behind the front leg and near the top of the shoulder.

RCL · « **Reply #27 on:** June 03, 2005, 04:55:25 AM »

The spine is located right in between TWO OF THE MOST DELICIOUS CUTS OF MEAT KNOWN TO MAN! :grin:
Do you really want to blow a big hole right in the middle of them? :eek:

Aim for the lungs and ruin the burger.

LeadPoison · « **Reply #28 on:** June 03, 2005, 10:29:12 AM »

11 out of 12 deer I have taken have died on the spot. I have always aimed 1/3 down and center of the shoulder. But like everyone said if you put a hole in the lungs and/or heart they don't go far if at all. :grin:

rockbilly · « **Reply #29 on:** June 03, 2005, 06:43:15 PM »

Trapperzack, I have to agree with the heart/lung shot. Several places offer life sized targets with the heart.lung area clearly marked. Get several of them and practice, practice, practice until you can hit that spot from several distances, setting, standing and off-hand. Once you have convinced yourself you are capable of hitting the kill zone you will be ready.

As for the .243, stick with it. The gun will take any whitetail, most mule deer and even elk in the hands of a competent hunter. Remember, its not the size of the bore, but rather, how well you can place your shot.

I hope you can get plenty of practice in, and have a successful hunting season this fall.