Author Topic: 30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat areas?  (Read 2931 times)

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Offline STW

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat areas?
« on: December 28, 2004, 10:22:03 PM »
Wondering about the capability of 30-30 for self-protection when hiking and camping in mountains with wildcats. Would 30-30 be a reasonable for wildcat or should it be a dangerous game 45-70 kind of thing.

What are the legalities of carrying a 30-30 on hikes in public land and wilderness areas if not hunting?

Offline WD45

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2004, 01:23:18 AM »
I can't answer the legal issue but the ole double 30 will take care of mountain lion no problem. You don't need a T-REX load to kill one. Now if your in country where you may encounter the big bears ... Thats a different issue :grin:

Offline mnblaster

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2004, 06:06:23 AM »
For self-protection from 2 or 4 leg predators while in the back country I would suggest a 20" shotgun with a sling,  full of buckshot, slugs or birdshot, you pick the dose. In a high stress situation buckshot requires less precise accuracy compared to a rifle and packs a hell of a punch. A slug will do the deed to any bear in the lower states at close range. If a survival situation presents itself the birdshot could come in handy.

Offline snowdog

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2005, 08:55:36 AM »
30-30 will take out  ANY mountain lion God can put at you  within
  100 yards.    I would much rather have  a 30-30 lever than
  the formidable .44 Mag  pistol or rifle.
30-30....45/70...... does anything else matter?

Offline Uncle Ji

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2005, 10:46:38 PM »
I've lived in Idaho, and have been face to face with 3 full grown Mountain Lions all less than 30 feet from me.  Honestly a large Cougar is 150 pounds about the size of a meduim man, and thin skinned.  Realistically a short barrelled 12 gauge loaded with OO buckshot is hard to beat in this situation, and the prefered choice of African Professional hunters pursuing wounded Leopard in tall grass.  That would be my first choice though in almost 30 years my Marlin 1894 with 10 rounds of 240 grain 44 mag JSP has not let me down even on charging wounded Wild boar over 200 pounds which I would fear over any cat under 150 pounds.   MY 2 CENTS...   :grin:

Offline pastorp

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wildcats
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2005, 07:14:24 PM »
Perhaps I am not understanding the question. He asked about wildcats not mountain lions. All the wildcats I've seen were 20-30 lbs, much smaller than a mountain lion. If the poster is indeed grouping all wild cats into his question then a 30-30 is still plenty. Get real fellas, you don't need a 45/70 for a 100-150 lb. animal.

I lived in New Mexico for 16 years ,and traveled the Gila National Forest on horseback and on foot, I usually carried a S&W kit gun in 22lr. and felt perfectly safe. Must of worked, I'm still alive.

I think we make entirely to much of this self defense against animals topics. You are in much greater danger in the big city than in the wilderness, especially if you have been around animals any and know the do's and don't around them.   Regards, Byron
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Offline southern utah

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2005, 07:37:31 PM »
STW, the ol 30-30 has been used on game up to elk . factory loads of 170 gr bullets should work on about anything incountered in Utah, I usually pack a S&W 629 mtn gun with Starfire 240 gr bullets.

Offline STW

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Re: wildcats
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2005, 10:14:38 AM »
Quote from: pastorp
Perhaps I am not understanding the question. He asked about wildcats not mountain lions. All the wildcats I've seen were 20-30 lbs, much smaller than a mountain lion. If the poster is indeed grouping all wild cats into his question then a 30-30 is still plenty.


Sorry if it wasn't clear--I was using the name wildcat as we commonly hear it here meaning the same animal as mountain lion or puma. Not concerned about lynx attacking, nor about the pesky feral cats that live around here. I know you guys in Alaska have more serious stuff to worry about than wildcats. :-)

Quote from: pastorp
I think we make entirely to much of this self defense against animals topics. You are in much greater danger in the big city than in the wilderness, especially if you have been around animals any and know the do's and don't around them.   Regards, Byron


I wouldn't want to make too much of SD in the woods either. Don't find myself in the big city much, and I haven't generally been concerned about wildcat/mountian lions in the mountains I live in. I've made serveral sightings though in the last couple years, and there have been some attacks or killings in similar terrain in the lower 48 recently, so it seems like something I should know more about. I hike with my daughters on high altitude wilderness and remote trails on BLM land, and my girls like to wander ahead or behind, which I don't allow anymore since a 40-80 lb. child is just about the top of the mountain lion's menu as long as I'm not in sight or close by--and a child in the CA mountains was killed by a mountain lion a few years ago when he dawdled behind his parents on a trail not far from the parking lot. Not that carrying a 30-30 is going to mean I could allow children to wander up the trail, but if it's enough of an issue to keep my kids within 5 yards of me, then it's enough of an issue to know the legalities of carrying a rifle too.

We live in an older house right on the edge of the national forest, and deer wander accross the backyard sometimes and a couple of times I've seen a pair of mountain goats walk through the back yard, so it's not unthinkable that mountain lions would have an eye on my backyard too, and be prepared for what Uncle Ji described nearby in Idaho.

Hey, Southern Utah: do you know the legalities of carrying handgun or rifle (for non-hunting) in Utah in National Forest or Wilderness areas?

Offline southern utah

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STW
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2005, 01:29:31 PM »
Utah is a right to carry state. Do it  all the time. You should have NO problem with open carry of pistol or rifle on public land except the National Parks, Post Office, Court House or Church buildings. Schools are still in litigation. Got a warning a few years ago coming down from Kolob when I went thru Zion with rifle ( unloaded) in pickup gun rack. Real turd of a ranger. I was using an Encore rifle and he wasn't going to let me go until I took the bolt out.  Ya right.....like it has one. They don't even want to see a firearm so I just put it behind the seat. I always have something with me when out in the bush. Get you a small game licence , this gives you a good reason to have a firearm with you. You might get a shot at a Jackolope or a yote........LOL

Offline Loozinit

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2005, 04:37:56 AM »
Never faced down a cat.  But a friend of mine did over on the east side of Washington State.  He said it was about 40 yards and he was bow-hunting deer.  He yelled and flapped his arms and danced around like an idiot while the young male just crouched there staring at him like he was sizing up what part to eat first.  Finally, it came down to it.  My bud aimed for the throat when kitty took a step forward.  When he let fly the cat ducked!  The fletching grazed the top of Bootsie's head as the arrow went over and that was what sent him running!  So, my choice for SD ONLY - if I couldn't carry either 1)short pump 00, or 2)levergun in .44 mag, or 3) .30WCF, would be a stick with feathers on one end.
Loozinit

Offline WD45

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2005, 01:35:19 AM »
Stick with feathers ......
I didn't know mountain lions were ticklish :shock:  :-D  :grin:

Offline Lloyd Smale

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2005, 09:38:28 AM »
3030 wont kill anything bigger then a squirel just ask about half the gun writers out there :)
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Offline Lawdog

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2005, 12:09:22 PM »
Quote from: mnblaster
For self-protection from 2 or 4 leg predators while in the back country I would suggest a 20" shotgun with a sling,  full of buckshot, slugs or birdshot, you pick the dose. In a high stress situation buckshot requires less precise accuracy compared to a rifle and packs a hell of a punch. A slug will do the deed to any bear in the lower states at close range. If a survival situation presents itself the birdshot could come in handy.


Forget the shotgun idea for protection against bear, Blacks or Grizzlies!  Buckshot works fairly well on humans but is the pits on tough game animals.  It is a miserable failure on Leopards/Lions in Africa.  Read the article at http://www.african-hunter.com/Rifle_Choice_4_Dangerous_Game.htm for yourself.  If it works so poorly on Leopards why would anyone chance it on an animal about the same size(Mountain Lion) or even bigger(bears).  The .30-30 will kill any Mountain Lion walking and will do against Black Bears.  On a Grizzly Bear I wouldn’t chance it.  That is where cartridges like the .348, .45-70 and .450 Marlin shine.  Lawdog
 :D
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Offline Pinkerton

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2005, 06:01:25 PM »
I remember some years back reading some handgun hunting articles that stated the 22lr was plenty of gun of mt lion.  Like a cat the bone structure is light and the skin thin but I think the hunting they did was with dogs and poping treed cats.  

The 30-30 would be just fine on mt lion, and to be honest with you I'd feel plenty well heeled for an encounter with one with a clip full of stingers in a Ruger MKII.  

I can empithize with you about the mt. lion and children thing. I live in the Black Hills of SD and this last summer we've had a lot of mt lion trouble.  Whenever my family was out and about in the woods I'd pack my single six with 22mags and my chesapeake bay retriever, I often times think a good dog is some of the best protection you can keep around, (warm, friendly, loyal, and a ranger never stops and tells you to take the bolt out and make sure it's unloaded  :)

Offline handirifle

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2005, 07:05:42 AM »
I personally CANNOT see how a 12ga loaded with 00 Buck would be ineffective on a mountain lion.

Each pellot carries the energy of a 38 special and you have NINE chances of hitting him, instead of one.  

Ever read how many times guns are fired in gun fights compared to how many hits are made?  It's usually about 100 to 1.

I don't think a lion is going to often provide you with the kind of standing still shot like the lucky bowhunter above got.

Nearly every attack and most often kill, made here in CA by lions has been sudden and quick.  The lions are usually waiting along a trail and spring at the victom.  Not much chance to aim, no matter what type of sights.  A shotgun with a short barrel will give you higher odds of a hit.  I personally would not worry about a full out stop.  Mountain lions are not known for their tenacity to stick it out once shot, unless cornered by dogs or something.  They'd usually prefer to leave.  Experienced lion hunting guides correct me if I am wrong on that point.

All I have read of attacks, the lion has ALWAYS left once he has been hurt, even a little.  That said, you stand a better chance of hitting him with the scattergun.  And for the record, if he is crouched about 50yds out you have no business shooting him anyway.  Not a lion lover, but that far away he might more easily be scared away.  If he wants you, he'll be closer than that.  If he is within 20yds the 00 buck WILL kill him.

The cops here use 223's to do it with.  Several have been killed with 357's.  Three or four hits with 38 sp energy 00 buck will surely kill him.
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Offline victorcharlie

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2005, 12:13:46 PM »
Can't really use to big a hammer on this!  The 45.70 with a 300 grain hollow point at 2300 fps should make a big hole in a mountian lion.  The only mountain lion I have seen went the other way when it saw me.......I understand some are more aggressive, but the one I saw was darn happy to exit stage right..........
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Offline leverfan

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2005, 12:39:29 PM »
Buckshot kills, but it can kill very slowly.  I've seen two does that needed to be shot 3 times with loads of buckshot into the chest and neck before they fell.  The guys that did the shooting swore off buckshot for good, now they use slugs when hunting in shotgun only areas.  The round shot has a tendency to glance off of the areas that you most want it to penetrate.  

At the close ranges of an actual attack, buckshot will have no chance to spread out, so you might as well be shooting a rifle.  If you think that it's impossible to miss with a shotgun when firing under stress, just go to a cowboy action shooting match.  Nobody is scared, there's just a timer to provide stress, the targets are big and close, but even top shooters with customized shotguns miss a surprising amount of the time.  They would have missed with a rifle, too, but the point is that a shotgun has no advantage when it comes to scoring on a critter at close range.

Round shotgun pellets don't penetrate very well compared to bullets, which may be part of the problem when it fails to stop a target.  Buckshot works pretty well when you dump a load of it into an unprotected human torso at across-the-kitchen type range, especially if most of the pellets go center chest.  Then again, dang near anything works when you hit center chest.  

Rifles, shotguns loaded with tough, penetrating slugs, followed distantly by large bore handguns, would be my personal choices for defense against dangerous game, ranked in the order that I've listed.  The 30 WCF, with 170 grain bullets, will solve any lion problem you're likely to have in the USA, if you do your part.  

Heck, even my father in law was shot as close range with a shotgun full of pellets while he was a kid, and he's still around to tell the story.  He's a little guy, smaller than some big toms.

As has been stated, cougar hunt from ambush, often from behind, so keeping your wits about you is your best bet.  Cougar will also come to folks that are predator calling for coyotes.  Once a cougar hears you make a sound that it identifies with a food source, their behavior can change radically from the usual furtive, turn-tail and run reaction to humans.  They will start hunting you, and they won't necessarily stop once they've seen you.  I'd want more than a .17 caliber rifle at that point, maybe that's one instance where packing a revolver along could really help out.  Callers are usually set up to see the game coming, so you'd have a chance to take a big bore handgun out and take good aim with it.  It's still cougar season here in Washington, so if I see one while I'm calling coyotes, I'll be sure to see how well a .30 caliber bullet stops one.
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Offline Georgian

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2005, 08:13:53 AM »
Well, this looks like the typical .30-30 bashing thread that is so common these days............... :(  Well, I sure wont feel under-gunned with my Winchester 94 .30-30. I reckon all ppl want these days are the Super-Wiz-Bang-Elephant-Gun-Magnums today, I guess thats what they call progress......... :(
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Offline leverfan

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« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2005, 01:26:59 PM »
Quote from: Georgian
Well, this looks like the typical .30-30 bashing thread that is so common these days............... :(  Well, I sure wont feel under-gunned with my Winchester 94 .30-30. I reckon all ppl want these days are the Super-Wiz-Bang-Elephant-Gun-Magnums today, I guess thats what they call progress......... :(


Counting your post, and Lloyd's tongue-in-cheek response, 9 posts say that the 30-30 is plenty for mountain lion, and seem to prefer it over using a shotgun.  4 posts seem to support the use of short barreled buck shot heavers, rather than rifles.  3 posts make a point in favor of using rifles larger than .308".  That's just an overview of what I perceived to be each poster's preference, and 30-30 supporters outnumber shot gun and big bore supporters 9 to 7.  There's plenty of folks that know the 30 WCF well enough to respect its abilities.

30 WCF bashers are plenty welcome, though!  That would make for a lively thread. :)  :)  :)
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Offline Georgian

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2005, 02:16:16 PM »
You got that right leverfan. Well, ppl put down lots of guns, and say that they have no power, but will they ever let anyone shoot them with it and see? lol :)
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Offline jhrosier

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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2005, 05:56:21 PM »
While I don't have a problem with the 30-30, performance wise, I would question it based on weight and size. It would seem to make more sense to carry a reasonably powerfull handgun with a heavy bullet in front of a stout load, if there is no legal reason for not doing so. The weight saved would be better used for more likely needed items and, a belt-gun carried under a jacket or shirt would not attract undo attention.
My personal choice, here in New England, is a Ruger Single-Six in .22 Magnum. My concern, aside from 2-legged predators, is rabid racoons. I don't feel under-gunned but I have (fortunately) not needed to use it yet.
In your situation, I'd probably trade-up to a 5-1/2" single action revolver in .44 mag or .45 Colt, with a heavy bullet at moderate velocity. With a little practice, you should be able to nail a pop can anywhere inside of 25 yards, every time.

Offline Prof. Fuller Bullspit

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2005, 06:49:28 PM »
Just to jump in with an opinion:

A the .30.30 will kill a mountain lion just fine. The chances you will see one are very slim. I would feel more comfortable with a handgun that is kept handy in a hoster and always with me rather than a long gun that gets set down because it's a pain to carry every minute of the day.

If I was to carry a long gun for protection it would be a short barrelled shotgun because as has been noted you are not likely to get a nice aimed shot at an attacking lion and if it is hunting you, you won't see it much before it is on it's way towards you. And just because it is a shotgun doesn't mean you don't need to aim.

Offline luv45

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2005, 06:43:31 AM »
Quote from: Georgian
Well, this looks like the typical .30-30 bashing thread that is so common these days............... :(  Well, I sure wont feel under-gunned with my Winchester 94 .30-30. I reckon all ppl want these days are the Super-Wiz-Bang-Elephant-Gun-Magnums today, I guess thats what they call progress......... :(


I think putting the 30-30 down is quite funny. Over the years in Idaho I have carried one for over 50 years now. The little 94 has put down Deer, Elk and a Moose. A lot of the times I would rather have had a bigger rifle but the 94 was the one I had with me. The last few years gettin older and slower I have lost a few Elk not being able to pick the scope up fast enough on my 300 win. I will not be ashamed to go back to the 30-30.

Offline mnblaster

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2005, 07:18:03 AM »
Quote from: Lawdog
Quote from: mnblaster
For self-protection from 2 or 4 leg predators while in the back country I would suggest a 20" shotgun with a sling,  full of buckshot, slugs or birdshot, you pick the dose. In a high stress situation buckshot requires less precise accuracy compared to a rifle and packs a hell of a punch. A slug will do the deed to any bear in the lower states at close range. If a survival situation presents itself the birdshot could come in handy.


Forget the shotgun idea for protection against bear, Blacks or Grizzlies!  Buckshot works fairly well on humans but is the pits on tough game animals.  
 
:D
No one said anything about using buckshot on a bear.

Some great shotgun ballistics  

http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/ballistics.html


Shotgun Ballistics
Wounding is a function of the type of shot, or pellets, used in the shotgun shell. Weight, in general, is a constant for a shell so that 1 oz of shot would equal either 9 pellets of double O buckshot or 410 pellets of #8 birdshot. A 00 or "double ought" pellet is essentially equivalent to a low velocity .38 handgun projectile. The spread of the pellets as they leave the muzzle is determined by the "choke" or constriction of the barrel at the muzzle (from 0.003 to 0.04 inches). More choke means less spread. Full choke gives a 15 inch spread at 20 yards, while no choke gives a 30 inch spread at the same distance. (DeMuth et al, 1976) A "sawed-off" shotgun has a very short barrel so that, not only can it be concealed more easily, but also it can spray the pellets out over a wide area, because there is no choke.

A shotgun shell is diagrammed below:


At close range, the pellets essentially act as one mass, and a typical shell would give the mass of pellets a muzzle velocity of 1300 fps and KE of 2100 ft/lb. At close range (less than 4 feet) an entrance wound would be about 1 inch diameter, and the wound cavity would contain wadding. At intermediate range (4 to 12 feet) the entrance wound is up to 2 inches diameter, but the borders may show individual pellet markings. Wadding may be found near the surface of the wound. Beyond 12 feet, choke, barrel length, and pellet size determine the wounding.

If the energy is divided between the pellets, it can be seen that fewer, larger pellets will carry more KE, but the spread may carry them away from the target. Pellets, being spherical, are poor projectiles, and most small pellets will not penetrate skin after 80 yards. Thus, close range wounds are severe, but at even relatively short distances, wounding may be minimal. Range is the most important factor, and can be estimated in over half of cases, as can the shot size used. (Wilson, 1978) A rifled slug fired from a shotgun may have a range of 800 yards. (Mattoo et al, 1974)

Shotgun slugs can produce significant injury, because of the slug's size and mass. At close range, survival is rare. In treating shotgun injuries, it is necessary to remember that the plastic shell carrier and the wadding (which may not appear on radiographs) can also cause tissue damage and may need to be found and removed. (Gestring ML et al, 1996)

Offline willysjeep134

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2005, 08:51:25 PM »
I know 00 buck, the only size I think is worth using, can go through a deer and lodge under the skin on the other side at close ranges and often penetrates completely. Number 4 may have a better pattern density, but I feel it lacks the much needed mass to penetrate as well as 00, leading many people to lable all buckshot as a poor game killer.

A 30-30 would probably do fine as far as power, but if you are being attacked I think a handgun might be a bette defensive weapon. From what I have heard mountain lions stalk you and pounce when you don't expect it. A 30-30 slung on a pack would be much harder to get into action than a handgun on a belt or in a shoulder holster. A 4 inch .44 magnum would be easier to press up to a lions skull with one hand than a 30-30 carbine. I don't think there would be much warning before an attack.
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Offline Georgian

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30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2005, 03:51:28 PM »
Well, I ya prefer a handgun, be my guest. I just figured that a handgun was a second choice to a rifle on all counts. Handgun will never match the rifle on reach, power, or  accuracy IMHO. I'd feel more comfortable with a rifle anyway, but.....ppl use what suits them, thats what is great about this country, freedom to choose what you want :grin:
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Offline jgalar

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« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2005, 01:48:04 AM »
If I were walking with my children and a couger jumped one of them from ambush (as they normally do) I would hate to have to shoot a scattergun in the direction of my child. I would prefer a handgun or rifle. Just my oppinion.

Offline willysjeep134

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« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2005, 05:02:36 PM »
Quote from: Georgian
snip... I just figured that a handgun was a second choice to a rifle on all counts. Handgun will never match the rifle on reach, power, or  accuracy IMHO. ....snip   quote]

Handguns are definately not as good in accuracy, power, or range. Where a handgun is a thousand times better is in handyness. I figured that if a cougar had just tackled me to the ground from behind and was trying to eat my head I wouldn't be able to get a 36" long carbine into a 8" space and shoot the thing. Cougars are very stealthy, so I see any defense as a reaction after the cat attacks. In a tussle on the ground a handgun would definately win over a rifle, in my opinion. You're right, we both pick diferently because of the advantages each choice has. Freedom of choice.



EDIT:

But ya know, as I think about it, the shotgun or rifle has a few advantages too. Especially something like a light shotgun. It would be a lot harder to use while hiking, when you will be spending a lot of time walking trails with the gun on a pack, and when an attack is likely to be fast and sudden, but for loafing around a base camp mabey I might notice a panther before it attacked. A shotgun would also be better if small game seasons were open and the area was open to hunting. If nothing else it would be a very good excuse for carrying a shotgun. It would fly a lot better with a cop saying you brought your shotgun for grouse instead of panther attacks. If bear were in the equation I would put the shotgun about equal with the revolver. A bear is not as stealthy as a cougar, you might get some warning before one attacks. A slug would carry more authority than a .44 magnum bullet, but then again there is always the chance that you might be attacked before you got the shotgun in action and the extra length might be a problem. Choices...choices....choices.
If God wanted plastic stocks he would have made plastic trees.

Offline CornCod

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Mountain Lion
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2005, 08:26:38 PM »
For Mountain Lion I would prefer an early World War Two era 37mm Anti-Tank gun, towed behind my SUV. For larger dangerous animals like bear, a T-55 tank with 100mm gun is indicated. I understand they can be picked up for a good price at the East German Army Going Out of Business Sale.
 :D

Offline tom barthel

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Re: 30-30 for SD when hiking/camping in wildcat areas?
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2005, 05:10:59 PM »
Quote from: STW
Wondering about the capability of 30-30 for self-protection when hiking and camping in mountains with wildcats. Would 30-30 be a reasonable for wildcat or should it be a dangerous game 45-70 kind of thing.
 
What are the legalities of carrying a 30-30 on hikes in public land and wilderness areas if not hunting?  
 
You don't need anything unusual.  If you are like me you can miss with anything.  You will need to check locally as to the legalities.  What ever you get, practice with it.  It helps if you can afford to buy ammunition.  You can find .30-30 just about anywhere.  It's not expensive.  Others have voiced their preferences regarding dangerous animals.  All of the opinions are good.  
The question should be are you likely to encounter a lion or grizzly bear.  Most animals will run from you.  If you encounter one that doesn't run from you anything is better than nothing.  If a dangerous animal attacks, it will probably do some damage.  It doesn't hurt to be ready.  Practice practice practice and hope it never happens.
 
Good luck and GOD bless you and yours.
 
Tom