460 S&W

[Jay HHI6818]

I see S&W has come out with a new cartridge on the 500 S&W frame named the 460 S&W. 200 grain bullet @2300FPS!!!  JD's sure was quick to chamber Encore barrels for it.

http://www.sskindustries.com/460.htm

[L-Roy]

Have you seen the pressures that thing operates at?!  I'd just as soon get a 454 Casull. :-)

[jro45]

The max pressure is the same as the S&W500 65000 psi,  I think. That pressure is the same as one of my rifles.

[RicMic]

The 460 is 65K psi, the 500 is 50K psi, and the 454 Casull is 60k psi.

[mbartel]

The SAAMI spec is 60,000 psi max for the .500 S&W magnum.  S&W wanted CorBon to develope the new ammo with a 50,000 psi limit.  So the 50,000 psi limit is a CorBon thing. Below is an interesting link to the 460 mag.  The article refers to the 460 mag as having a 5,000 psi higher limit than the .500  65,000 vs 60,000

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_handguns/sw460_072905/

[Tom W.]

But L-Roy, if you get the .460  you can shoot the .454's from it, as well as the .45 Colt.

[RicMic]

S&W charged Cor Bon for the designing the cartridge, and said the bullet could be no bigger that .500, pressure no more that 50K psi, and at least 2200 ft-lb of energy.  Have a read......

http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/firearms/1277336.html?page=3&c=y


Then read this


http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/monster_1103/index.html

[454Puma]

Jay HHI6818
  Well I'm going to have find out if I can get some of those pointy 200gr bullets to shoot out of my 454. Since I can get a 240gr out at 2000+ fps getting those pointy 200gr to 2100-2200fps easy!  That's only 100 fps or so slower then the 460- game animals will not know the differance! So that makes getting a 460 a mute piont doesn't it!  And my SRH doesn't weight 88+ ozs either!
 :grin:

[Redhawk1]

Jay HHI6818
  Well I'm going to have find out if I can get some of those pointy 200gr bullets to shoot out of my 454. Since I can get a 240gr out at 2000+ fps getting those pointy 200gr to 2100-2200fps easy!  That's only 100 fps or so slower then the 460- game animals will not know the differance! So that makes getting a 460 a mute piont doesn't it!  And my SRH doesn't weight 88+ ozs either!
 :grin:

454 Puma, the 460 Mag uses 10 more grains of powder over the 454 Casull so it does make a difference. You can't get enough powder in the case of the 454 Casull to get the velocitys of the 460 Mag.  No need to try to down play the effectiveness of the 460. If you don't feel a need for it, don't buy it, but don't try to make your 454 Casull a 460 Mag because it is not.  :wink:

[Lloyd Smale]

hell pal with enough bullseye i bet you could at least once!!!

Jay HHI6818
  Well I'm going to have find out if I can get some of those pointy 200gr bullets to shoot out of my 454. Since I can get a 240gr out at 2000+ fps getting those pointy 200gr to 2100-2200fps easy!  That's only 100 fps or so slower then the 460- game animals will not know the differance! So that makes getting a 460 a mute piont doesn't it!  And my SRH doesn't weight 88+ ozs either!
 :grin:

454 Puma, the 460 Mag uses 10 more grains of powder over the 454 Casull so it does make a difference. You can't get enough powder in the case of the 454 Casull to get the velocitys of the 460 Mag.  No need to try to down play the effectiveness of the 460. If you don't feel a need for it, don't buy it, but don't try to make your 454 Casull a 460 Mag because it is not.  :wink:

[Redhawk1]

Lloyd Smale, some times I have to smile when I read your posts.  :-D

[454Puma]

Lloyd Smale, Redhawk1
   Funny I have load data sitting here in front of me 240gr H110 39gr 2090 FPS. W296 38 gr 2004 FPS! This at only 53-5400 psi.So if you knock of 40 grains of wieght from a bullet  2100-2200 fps is very feaseable to achieve in the 454 Casull with a 200 gr bullet, so the 460 isn't the only one the can get there.  

[Redhawk1]

Lloyd Smale, Redhawk1
   Funny I have load data sitting here in front of me 240gr H110 39gr 2090 FPS. W296 38 gr 2004 FPS! This at only 53-5400 psi.So if you knock of 40 grains of wieght from a bullet  2100-2200 fps is very feaseable to achieve in the 454 Casull with a 200 gr bullet, so the 460 isn't the only one the can get there.  

If that were true the 460 would not of been designed.  Go order yourself some 200 gr. bullets and see if you can do it. Again the 454 Casull does not have the case capacity with the correct powders to reach that velocity. Also your cylinder in your SRH is not long enough to accommodate the longer 200 gr. bullet profile. Just be happy with your 454 Casull and don't try to make it a short 460 Mag. If you want 460 Mag velocity get yourself a 460 Mag.  

[454Puma]

Redhawk1
  Well I'd get some of those pointy bullets, but Hornady isn't selling them seperate -I could buy the 250 gr Muzzle load version, but that defeats the propose of the test! :shock:  I don't know what the length of those 200 gr  are but I would think they are not that much longer then my cast 230 gr TC ACP bullets? I ask you to pull a bullet - but they are to exspensive for that! Just the get the length to compare. By looking at the 460 rounds they are seated way deep!

[Redhawk1]

Redhawk1
  Well I'd get some of those pointy bullets, but Hornady isn't selling them seperate -I could buy the 250 gr Muzzle load version, but that defeats the propose of the test! :shock:  I don't know what the length of those 200 gr  are but I would think they are not that much longer then my cast 230 gr TC ACP bullets? I ask you to pull a bullet - but they are to exspensive for that! Just the get the length to compare. By looking at the 460 rounds they are seated way deep!

You can get 200 gr. Barnes bullets for the 460. I have 3 boxes sitting on my reloading bench. The over all length of the Barnes 200 gr. bullet is 0.820 about .200 longer than the 230 gr. TC ACP bullet.
Is it that important to you to try to make your 454 Casull shoot like a 460 Mag??  Is it that hard to believe that case capacity of the 454 Casull just falls short of the 460 Mag? :?

[454Puma]

Redhawk1
  No it's not that important :wink: I just like winding you S&W boy's up!
S&W thought just becuase they came out with the 500/460 they are now king of the hill-they're not!   :grin:

[Redhawk1]

Redhawk1
  No it's not that important :wink: I just like winding you S&W boy's up!
S&W thought just becuase they came out with the 500/460 they are now king of the hill-they're not!   :grin:

OK.  :gulp:

[Zen900]

Redhawk1
  No it's not that important :wink: I just like winding you S&W boy's up!
S&W thought just becuase they came out with the 500/460 they are now king of the hill-they're not!   :grin:

These new 454 and 460 king of the hill revolvers are not carry weapons. I've never seen a cop carry a Casull. The real KOTH revolver may still be the model29 although I don't recall ever seeing a cop carry a model 29 except in a movie. Funny how S&W only made 3000 mod29s for the anniversary gun. It's easy to see why semiautos took over as duty sidearms. The Glocks weigh in at half the weight of the revolvers and carry more rounds. Even the mod29 is darn heavy.  I have to wonder how anyone carried it at 49ozs. You could break a toe if you dropped a mod29 on your foot. Casulls and 460s are hunting sidearms in my opinion not duty revolvers. A gun nut where I work is buying a 460 because they told him that it carries more punch than a 30-06 up to 200yds but I dont see him selling his rifles though.

[Redhawk1]

Redhawk1
  No it's not that important :wink: I just like winding you S&W boy's up!
S&W thought just becuase they came out with the 500/460 they are now king of the hill-they're not!   :grin:

These new 454 and 460 king of the hill revolvers are not carry weapons. I've never seen a cop carry a Casull. The real KOTH revolver may still be the model29 although I don't recall ever seeing a cop carry a model 29 except in a movie. Funny how S&W only made 3000 mod29s for the anniversary gun. It's easy to see why semiautos took over as duty sidearms. The Glocks weigh in at half the weight of the revolvers and carry more rounds. Even the mod29 is darn heavy.  I have to wonder how anyone carried it at 49ozs. You could break a toe if you dropped a mod29 on your foot. Casulls and 460s are hunting sidearms in my opinion not duty revolvers. A gun nut where I work is buying a 460 because they told him that it carries more punch than a 30-06 up to 200yds but I dont see him selling his rifles though.

And exactly what is your point? It is no secret the 454 Casull or 460 Mag are hunting firearms and yes the 460 Mag is a 200 yards gun if one is proficient enough to make the shot. No one here said a 454 Casull or 460 mag are duty or service firearms.  :roll:

[Zen900]

Redhawk1
  No it's not that important :wink: I just like winding you S&W boy's up!
S&W thought just becuase they came out with the 500/460 they are now king of the hill-they're not!   :grin:

And exactly what is your point? It is no secret the 454 Casull or 460 Mag are hunting firearms and yes the 460 Mag is a 200 yards gun if one is proficient enough to make the shot. No one here said a 454 Casull or 460 mag are duty or service firearms.  :roll:

I watched a show where S&W explicitly stated they built the 460 as the new king of the hill firearm in order to regain that bragging right that they had back in the model 29 days. My point is that the model 29 is and always was the king of the hill because if you get any bigger than the mod29 then it isn't a sidearm duty revolver. It's something else. The new 460 is just the king of large caliber revolver hunting guns not king of the hill duty revolver. Not even S&W can top the model 29 is my point.

[Redhawk1]

Redhawk1
  No it's not that important :wink: I just like winding you S&W boy's up!
S&W thought just becuase they came out with the 500/460 they are now king of the hill-they're not!   :grin:

And exactly what is your point? It is no secret the 454 Casull or 460 Mag are hunting firearms and yes the 460 Mag is a 200 yards gun if one is proficient enough to make the shot. No one here said a 454 Casull or 460 mag are duty or service firearms.  :roll:

I watched a show where S&W explicitly stated they built the 460 as the new king of the hill firearm in order to regain that bragging right that they had back in the model 29 days. My point is that the model 29 is and always was the king of the hill because if you get any bigger than the mod29 then it isn't a sidearm duty revolver. It's something else. The new 460 is just the king of large caliber revolver hunting guns not king of the hill duty revolver. Not even S&W can top the model 29 is my point.

If you knew you Smith & Wessons, the 500 Mag was the Shith & Wesson's  answer to get back to the king of the hill, and they did. The 460 Was to acheave the fasest. But no where did anyone refer to the 460 Mag as a duty revolver. It does not take a rocket sicentes to see S&W did not make the 460 Mag with the intention of a carry duty revolver.

[454Puma]

Zen900
  Actually a 454 Casull could be a carryweapon, I,ve CCW mine on ocassion, shoulder holster of course! :grin:  And if one was to have there's cut down to say 5.5" or less it could very well be carried-Ruger Alaskian? Now I wouldn't be running full snort 454's thorugh it- no need just some stout 45 LC 250gr XTP's would be more than plenty to put the stop to any agressive behavior of a BG!!  Now the 460 I doupt anyone would cut there's down, then it becomes just a 454 again! :shock:

[Zen900]

Zen900
  Actually a 454 Casull could be a carryweapon, I,ve CCW mine on ocassion, shoulder holster of course! :grin:

     I'm stunned.

[Lloyd Smale]

heres my thoughts on it. The ccw argument is silly. Ive carried my 4 inch 500 linebaugh vaquero consealed but mostly for a joke. If your life is really in danger theres better weapons for the job and id guess anyone that owns one of these has a couple other guns that will do the job better. Redhawk you know my opinion on 200 yard deer blasting with a revolver. NOT THIS GUY! But no doubt in the hands of a good shot it could be done. But in the hands of a good shot it could be done just as handly with a 44 mag or 45 colt.  Just a matter of knowning your gun and load. Is a 454 equal to a 460 HELL NO! YOu can shove enough powder in a 4570 to make it run on the heals of a 458 too. But you can do the same with a 458 and make it walk away from a 4570 but why? It allready kills at factory levels. In the old days I played like a kid too and pushed every gun to and past max safe levels. Shook a couple fine handguns apart doing it too. Personaly i have no use for a handgun pushing any bullet to 2000 fps. But thats me not you. IVe never seen where anything hit by a handgun with a good cast bullet at 1200 fps needed any more killing. Im not a big fan of the 500 smith the 460 smith or even the 454. But wouldnt be a bit ashamed to have a 4 inch 500 smith on my hip. There fairly packable and with a 450 grain bullet at sane velocities an accurate good killing weapon for any game on earth. No doubt smith played the velocity game when designing these weapons to sell them. SO WHAT! It seems to have worked for them. Some handgunners (alot of them missinformed) believe that velocity is the main ingredient in a gun! (redhawk before you slam me im not refering to you) To me the 460 is about the ultimate in uslessness. About the only reason i could come up for for owning one is silouette shooting. IT would take some of the guess work out of long range shooting  and ive yet to see a steel ram run off and die a miserable death. Why own one over the other. BECAUSE YOU WANT TO! Ive been doing this long enough that i dont feel i have to justify what i shoot to anyone. I shoot what i do because i enjoy shooting and owning guns. If i were a practical man i would have stopped buying guns after i bought my first super blackhawk. Meet me on the range with your 454s and 460s and id be more then happy to spend the day blasting up your ammo. People slam smith for comming out with a gun that encourages guys to shoot animals 200 yards out but those same guys bashing them will go and buy a 175 mile an hour motorcyle or a 120 mph snowmobile a set of leathers and think they can compete with a pro that would wax them on a bike or sled half the size. Bottom line is buy and shoot what makes you smile!!! The boys at smith need to eat too!

[Redhawk1]

Lloyd Smale, I would not slam you. You and I have had many discussions and I value your opinion. Like you said we all have our reasons for what we do. Did I need my 460 Mag's or 500 Mag's? Probably not, but I have them. Do I worry about pushing a 200 gr. bullet over 2000 fps? No I don't. But I do care about accuracy and the ability to use big and heavy bullets in them. My main concern is not making a 200 yards shot, but to make every shot count and be on target no matter the distance, be it 10 yards or 200 yards. Do I prefer a close shot over a long shot, I sure do.  

[Lloyd Smale]

redhawk you are one of the rare guys that i respect that do shoot them. Because YOU DO SHOOT THEM! You dont just use em for decoration or to impress your buddys!

[454Puma]

Zen900
  So why are you stunned? Carring a 454 loaded with 45LC is no different then someone carring a 44 Mag or 357 Mag for CCW. :wink:

Lloyd Smale
   Yes there maybe better chioces- but DA revolvers were the prefered carry weapon for a long time.  And they do go bang every time you pull the trigger.  :grin:

[Redhawk1]

Lloyd Smale, I have seen way to often guys buy handguns and say they are handgun hunters. They get there guns sighted in and shoot a box of ammo up and there off to the woods when the season opens. Last year was Delaware's first handgun season, I have seen guys go in the gun stores and buy a revolver a scope or red-dot and take the set up into the indoor range and sight the gun in at 25 yards and come out and say, I am ready for hunting.
Just like you said, there are those guys out there, then you have guys that put time in there handguns year around and shoot thousands of rounds like you and I do. I have been hunting with a handgun for over 20 years and have taken a lot of game with them. I have used 357 and 44 Mags and now the 460 and 500 Mags are my preferred handguns of choice.
 

[waynemorgan]

this will be my first season to hunt with a revolver and the first time hunting big game it texas most of my handgun hunting was in oklahoma with a contender in 357 max and a 762x39 .so i am looking forword to this year i just need to put about 300 rounds through it first.

[Redhawk1]

this will be my first season to hunt with a revolver and the first time hunting big game it texas most of my handgun hunting was in oklahoma with a contender in 357 max and a 762x39 .so i am looking forword to this year i just need to put about 300 rounds through it first.

The good thing is, you have already used a handgun. Now it is just to get familiar with that 460.