25-06 in Ruger, Tikka, Savage, Browning?????

[Grubbs]

BackCountry, The steyr is a Pro-hunter in .270.  It is black synthetic with a parkerized black matte twisted barrel.  You can see the twists on the outside of the barrel which looks awesome (I understand this is a Steyr trademark or something like that).  The trigger is perfect the way it came so I don't know if it's adjustable or not.  The action is extremely smooth, almost as smooth as the Tikka.  It has a detachable magazine (which I like) that is the rotary type.  I've never seen a rotary magazine on a big game rifle like this.  It shoots sub-moa with Hornady light mag factory ammo.  I topped it with a Pentax Lightseeker 3-9x42 which is an awesome scope.  I really love the rifle.  I bought it 7 years ago (I think) for around $700.  It doesn't come with mounts or rings.  It is a real looker and a real shooter...a pleasure to carry in the hills.

[9x23w]

The SBS is a pretty unique action with 4 lugs (2 in back of 2) and a 60 degree bolt lift.  The trigger is adjustable but most come with pretty good triggers and there is no info on how to do it (might be a USA thing).  If you go to John Schaefer's Steyr Scout Site (http://www.steyrscout.org/project.htm) there is a lot of info on the Scout much of which applies to the SBS (like how to adjust the trigger).  The barrels are hammer forged but Steyr does not remove the outside hammer marks which give the barrels a unique look.

What I like:
Accurate:  1" groups are defintely doable.
Well made:  Everything fits (Winchester, are u listening???)
Safety:  There is a 3 position safety.  In the safest position the bolt is locked and if you push in the bolt handle and locks in the stock so very little sticks out.  If you take off the safety the handle pops out.  Very cool.
Trigger:  Better than most US triggers
Stock:  Length is adjustable - there are 2 spacers, you can remove one or both easily.

What I don't like:
Bolt lift:  John's site explains it the best - the firing pin spring is very stiff for a short lock time and the bolt lift is only 60 degrees.  The result is that the bolt lift takes a lot of effort.  Coupled with the traditional Steyr 'butterknife' bolt handle it makes operating the bolt from the shoulder a real effort.  At least on my gun.
Stock: It could be a little fuller in the comb
Bolt Handle: In addition to the lack of a knob, the handle has a convex shape where it bends (like a military 98 handle).  Makes it hard to mount a scope low because the eyepiece has trouble clearing the bolt.

In addition the bolt is pretty stiff on mine but is loosening up as I use it.  There is almost no play in the bolt when it is in the gun.

Re - Grubbs post - I think he has an older Model M because the SBS's DO NOT have the rotary magazine - they have a standard removable staggered clip (like a Remington 7400).  He also says his action is very smooth - this would be a Model M.  Incidentally I beleve Model M's were made in 25-06 but I have not seen one for sale recently anywhere (you can bet I'm looking).

The SBS has not been a great seller and the prices are pretty good.  I've seen new carbon steel ones for under $500, SS for about $600.  

FYI they take Browning A Bolt mounts  but the mount spacing is not the same so you must use 2 piece mounts.

Good luck.

[Grubbs]

You're right, I don't have the SBS, I have the model prior to that....it is a fantastic rifle.

[clyde72]

As for the Triggers they are quite easy to improve (either by a local gunsmith or by the shooter skilled in such things). There is a set of instructions on the net for improving the Ruger Trigger, and if followed to the letter it is amazingly easy to get a really good SAFE Trigger Pull of down to 2 pounds (if it is desired that light).

SD,
You wouldn't happen to have the address for that article would you?

[Lawdog]

clyde72,

Go to http://www.centerfirecentral.com/77trigger.html and it has instructions, including drawings.  But if you don't feel as if you can do the work right, go to a gunsmith and turn the job over to him/her.  Also installing a Timney adjustable trigger isn't as hard and afterward you have a trigger that is adjustable, thus increasing the value of your rifle.  Lawdog
 

[Grubbs]

The previous two posts are examples of one of the huge plus's of the Tikka T-3....fully adjustable trigger.  I can do it in 5 minutes at my house with an allen wrench.

[Shamus99]

Well for me there's no question, I say get the Tikka.  

The reasons are too numerous to re-hash them all, but there really isn't a better rifle out there for under twice the money.  I own two now, and am anxiously awaiting the arrival of my stainless (gasp) steel/laminated 25-06, so you could say I've put my money where my mouth is.

As is relates to the Tikka/Sako recall issues, I'm not sure that there can reasonably be any confusion about this anymore.  It's been well documented here and about 20 other forums across the net as well as being independantly verified by folks in their local stores that Sako/Tikka HAVE figured out what the issue was, they've corrected it, and affected guns are being tracked down now.  

To determine whether the gun you are thinking about purchasing is affected by the recall, simply dial the 800 number for the recall and leave a message for Cheryl with the serial number.  She will call you back within 24 hours with an answer.

[Grubbs]

Shamus, well said.  I have 3 Tikkas (2 T-3's)..all are awesome.  At our deer lease in Texas i hunt with 3 buddies from Louisiana.  Several years ago I showed up with my first Tikka...a whitetail 7mag s/s.  My buddies all had their remingtons and weatherbys.  After looking over my rifle 2 of the 3 now have Tikkas and the 3rd guy just "borrows" my rifle when we are at the lease together because my Tikka "shoots better, is lighter, better trigger, etc  than his Weatherby"  He called yesterday wanting to know where to find a rig like mine....he just sold his Weatherby.  Quite a few converts at my lease, and I wasn't even trying.

[BackCountry]

Grubbs and Shamus,
i was wondering why you go with the tikka instead of the sako, is it price thing. Does the tikka have a short bolt lift also. is there any benefit of the t3 over the sako hunter.

Thanks guys

[Lawdog]

Grubbs,

"shoots better, is lighter, better trigger, etc than his Weatherby"

Are you talking about a Vanguard or a real Weatherby?  Lawdog
 

[superhornet]

If your desire is an accurate, strong, reliable precision tack driving rifle of excellent reputation and good for any Ungulate in North America---there is only one choice........Savage--as good as the best, and better than the rest.......try it--you will love it..........IMHO

[Shamus99]

Grubbs and Shamus,
i was wondering why you go with the tikka instead of the sako, is it price thing. Does the tikka have a short bolt lift also. is there any benefit of the t3 over the sako hunter.

Thanks guys

Yes, the Tikkas have the short bolt lift (70 degrees) like their Sako cousins.

I went with it because it's basically a Sako for 1/2 or 1/3 the price, same barrels, same techniques and attention to detail.   The machining is awesome, the trigger is unbeatable in a production gun and the accuracy is very very VERY good.   Value is important to me, as is durability, accuracy, features, and fit and finish.  To me, there isn't another rifle close to the price of these Tikkas that has as much going for it as the they do.  

I also went with the Tikka because it has some features and options that the Sakos don't.  

Here in NW Oregon where it can be a bit damp (read-very bleed'n wet) synthetic or laminate is really the way to go and Tikka has a couple more options to choose versus Sako in the synthetic/laminated hunting rifle ranks.  

I also consider the composite trigger guard and detachable magazine a plus rather than a minus in my climate.  They don't scratch, they won't rust and they are tough as heck.

Also, the Tikka T3 Lite SS/Syn is a little lighter than it's Finnlight counterpart (6.375 lbs versus 7.250 lbs in the magnums) and if you're humping up and down the canyons of Eastern Oregon in search of elk, every pound counts.

Another reason I had for going with the Tikka was something I read in one of the first reviews on the rifle.  It shares like 85% of it's parts along it's entire product line versus the Sako, which use almost no interchangeable parts.  Doesn't seem like a big deal until you're looking for a replacement piece 15 years from now.  The Tikkas will be both more common, and cheaper to maintain methinks.

The Sakos are incredible guns to be sure and they have their own benefits, but in the final analysis for me,  I couldn't justify spending twice as much for the Sako.

[Grubbs]

I'm not sure of the exact Weatherby model he had, but it is not a Vanguard.  It is a 7 STW, long fluted barrel, stainless/synthetic, and it is very heavy.  It also has a sticky action, fairly decent trigger, and a hideously ugly stock.  I think it was fairly expensive..around $1200 or so.  It doesn't hold a candle to my Tikka in any way shape or form.  He evidently agrees with me also.  He sold the gun for $1100 with a Leup VXII on it.  He will spend app $550 on the Tikka, around $500 on a Zeiss Conquest 3.5x10x44 and have twice the rig at no expense.

[Bart Solo]

I have been looking for Tikka on the web and am having a hard time finding a dealer with any in stock.  Where should I look?

As to Ruger's trigger pull, has anybody told Ruger that they are losing sales because of their trigger?  I know they think they are taking the advice of their lawyers and reducing risk, but if you think about it, if you reduce sales enough you have suffered the same damage you are worried about.  More importantly, by having an overly heavy trigger pull, Ruger is encouraging people to attempt to modify.  They have no control over the quality of the modifications.  Some might work wonderfully and some might be dangerous.  In the event of an accident, you can bet your ass that the victim is going to sue everybody in sight, including Ruger.  

Anyway an overly heavy trigger pull could lead to bad shoots being taken, which could lead to targets being missed, which could lead to some farmer's wife being hit with an errant shot.  If I was a trial lawyer, I bet I could create a liability theory based on their trigger pull.  If not for the negligent design of the trigger, hunter sam would't have missed the deer and mrs jones wouldn't have been hit.

Frankly, I have always loved the way Rugers look but have been reluctant to buy one because of the work you have to do to fix the trigger.  If you think about it, a standard Ruger is only about $70 more than a Savage 111G, but the standard Ruger comes with bases and rings and the Savage doesn't.  Bottom line, they are just about the same price when you throw in bases and rings.   Now a Ruger with an accrutrigger, that would be a good thing.

[Shamus99]

Hi Ron,

The Tikkas are only imported once a year from what I've been told so the dealers get them and then that's it for awhile.  Online they can sometimes be found on:

www.gunbroker.com (auctions) (great site for finding local FFLs too)
www.auctionarms.com (auctions) (ditto above)
www.gunsamerica.com (classifieds)
www.galleryofguns.com (under Beretta, model Series Tikka)
www.internetguncatalog.com/  (supplier for Wal-Mart special ordering)

There is also a dealer locator on the Tikka website ( www.tikka.fi ) and you can select your state.  Other than that, I usually just do google searches.  

One resource I use locally is Sportsmans Warehouse ( www.sportsmanswarehouse.com ) They've done intra-store transfers for me before and they have stores in states neighboring yours.

[Lawdog]

I'm not sure of the exact Weatherby model he had, but it is not a Vanguard.  It is a 7 STW, long fluted barrel, stainless/synthetic, and it is very heavy.  It also has a sticky action, fairly decent trigger, and a hideously ugly stock.  I think it was fairly expensive..around $1200 or so.  It doesn't hold a candle to my Tikka in any way shape or form.  He evidently agrees with me also.  He sold the gun for $1100 with a Leup VXII on it.  He will spend app $550 on the Tikka, around $500 on a Zeiss Conquest 3.5x10x44 and have twice the rig at no expense.

I have seen a number of Sako/Tikka's and I have never saw one with a smoother action than a Weatherby Mark V.  That includes the Accumark and Synthetic which are the only two models that are chambered for the 7mm STW.  If your friend's Weatherby had " a sticky action, fairly decent trigger" then he didn't know how to care for his rifle for it to have a sticky action or adjust the trigger as the Weatherby trigger is fully adjustable and one of the best in the business.  Even stainless/synthetic rifles have to be maintained properly.  If he treats his future Tikka the same way as he must have treated the Weatherby then it to will end up with a sticky action and a fairly decent trigger.  Lawdog
 

[Grubbs]

Lawdog, the comments by me that you highlighted are fact.  You're just assuming or hoping  that my buddy doesn't know how to care for guns (he does, always has).  He was a Remington man before this Weatherby came around.  After looking over his gun it became obvious that the Tikka was superior build, quality, smoother, more accurate, lighter, and about 1/2 the cost of this Weatherby, and it was SUPER UGLY.  The only thing I would have done differently is it wouldn't have taken me that long to get rid of it after checking out a Tikka.  You like your Weatherby and that's great.  If someone gave me one I would keep it.  If I have a choice I would do exactly what I have previously described.

[Lawdog]

Grubbs,

I was comparing workmanship not price or anything else with my comments.  To me ANY rifle that is stainless/synthetic is SUPER UGLY and will never be found in my safe(s).  I don’t care what the make; Weatherby, Sako/Tikka, Remington, Winchester, Ruger, etc., etc., etc.....

My comparison was done using a new Tikka T3 Hunter in .300 Winchester to the Weatherby Mark V Deluxe in .300 Weatherby Magnum.  Not comparing weight, cost, caliber or anything else just workmanship, the Weatherby wins hands down.  Stock fit, action smoothness, bluing, etc., the Weatherby is just better.  While the T3 is a very good rifle, it is the low cost alternative to the Sako and doesn’t come up to the Sako or Weatherby in any department including workmanship.  I never said the Tikka wasn’t a very good rifle, they are but with that detachable magazine I won’t ever own one(personal preference).  I realize you prefer the Tikka and that is great but saying the workmanship of the Tikka is better than a Weatherby is just not true.  Have a great 2005.  Lawdog
 

[Shamus99]

On the Weatherby vs Tikka front, one comparison or situation doesn't necessarily make us all experts  :grin:  But I will say this...

From what I've not only seen myself, but read in many reviews - the Tikka plays in the same ballpark as the Sakos and Weatherbys in the accuracy department, trigger department, and bolt smoothness/precision  department.  

The Tikka may not have the same polished blueing luster or custom wood stock quality and the 20 coats of lacquer that the Weatherby costing 3 times the money has.  I guess my only comment is that it had better not!  For the cost of the Weatherby you better be getting those custom gun touches, and you are.

Each of us has our preferences... stainless vs blued, synthetic versus wood, candy coated wood vs oiled...

To those who to can afford it, and choose to buy a deluxe grade rifle, I say bravo!

[Barstooler]

Lawdog

I concur.   Classic walnut and blue metal is the way to go.

Dave from MN

Generate some testosterone and make up your own mind.

[Bart Solo]

All this talk about the Weatherby and Tikka comparison prompts me to ask a question, just what do you intend to do with the rifle?  If it is going to work for a living, then you buy a Tikka hands down. You might even buy synthetic.  If it is going to be a show gun, then you buy the expensive Weatherby.  I have been on too many hunts with guys sporting expensive guns not to realize that a beautifully appointed stock prompts a hunter to move differently than normal.  The only exception might be hunting prairie dogs off a rest.  Hunting anything else, after a certain point a pretty stock and an expensive gun is a hindrance.

[Grubbs]

Ron, I think you make a very good point.  I certainly do not buy Tikkas for their looks, although they look OK to me.  The Tikka Whitetail I've had for 5 years is very tough, a little scratched up, and still shoots like a new one.....awesome.  The Weatherby pales in comparison.

[Lawdog]

Ron Byers,

If it is going to work for a living, then you buy a Tikka hands down. You might even buy synthetic. If it is going to be a show gun, then you buy the expensive Weatherby. I have been on too many hunts with guys sporting expensive guns not to realize that a beautifully appointed stock prompts a hunter to move differently than normal.

Not really, I and many others that I know that own and use expensive rifles don't hunt any differently than if we were carrying a old beat up Army M98 mauser thru the brush.  Maybe we treat out rifles a little better as we don't treat them as some tool one uses then sets aside until it's to be used again.  Lawdog
 

[Dave from MN]

Barstooler,

Did you happen to read my post back on December 21st?  If so, you would have realized that this thread has taken on a life of its own.  I continue to check the posts because, with the notable exception of your reply, the posts are insightful and worth reading.  

Dave from MN

[DirtyHarry]

So, what did you go with Dave?

[Dave from MN]

Dirty Harry,

I chose the Tikka T3.  Although I was apprehensive about the barrel length, it doesn't appear to have a significant bearing on accuracy.  The rifle is light, smooth and has a trigger that breaks like glass.  Now I just have to make sure that the barrel stays in one piece!  

Dave from MN