another rifle explodes

[mr.frosty]

I thought you all might want to know about this

http://www.reloadbench.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getannounce&ForumNumber=1&Start=2453331.99&End=2453371&Session=

[Graybeard]

From the photo this one is clearly different from the other Sako that went Ka-boom. Rat now you couldn't give me a Sako or pay me to take one and fire it. I think Sako has done a really poor job of getting the word out on the rifles they know went out with substandard steel in barrels. Don't think they are taking this nearly seriously enough. Maybe after someone is killed or loses both eyes and sues Sako/Beretta for enough money to become the new owner of the oldest corporation on earth they will then wish they had listed. Maybe they think being a foreign company they are immune to such suits. Maybe they are. If so, folks are fools to keep buying from them tho.

I'll stick with my Remington rifles thank you.

[tripod]

Hi, I agree Sako should be more aggressive. I heard about it and called the hotline with my serial number and was told it was fine.  Part of the reason I own Tikka's is because of the decades old problem Remington knowingly refused to fix even on the advice of their own people. The Remington has killed and maimed many people resulting in lawsuits. My model 700 bone stock discharged when my wife chambered the first round for sight in check on the bench. Needless to say I don't own it anymore.

[Patriot_1776]

I see....  Seems that some of the best rifles can be summed up in TWO words: Weatherby, and Remington.  Geez.... Looks like another poor Leupold almost bites the dust too.  Pretty strong scope and mounts I must say; you can still see part of the action on the front scope ring.  At least, that is what it looks like to me.   Patriot

Weatherby and Remington: American, and made in America!

[tripod]

Hi, Are Weatherby's American. It is my understanding some are, some aren't  and some are both.  I thought the one I sold last year was German. I thought the Vanguards were at least part Japanese depending on year and model.

[270Handiman]

Does anyone remember if the other one that exploded was a fluted barrel?  I can't remember.

[Graybeard]

Yes the other was fluted.

I've heard folks talk about Remington discharges but I've yet to be convinced one went off that had not had unauthorized trigger work done on it. I've been using Rem. 700 and Model 7 rifles pretty much exclusively for the last 35 years. Never had one go off by itself and do not know anyone personally who has. All cases I've seen investigated their had been tampering with trigger sear setting by folks who didn't know what they were doing.

[wlmccann]

I agree on the Remington discharge problem. Other than triggers that someone had improperly adjusted, the only ones I have seen with a problem were 2 of the 600 magnums that were so gummed up in the trigger assemblys that the seat and trigger wouldn't move.  Consequently, the striker followed home when the bolt was closed. A little bit of proper maintainance would have prevented this.

[Big Paulie]

Don't mean to go into all of this again, but in my family, we have have had two Remington 700s (a .243 and 7 mag), and one Remington 7 (in .243) go off accidently without any trigger work or tampering whatsoever.  All were bought new, all had no trigger work of any nature whatsoever.

    Occurred in each instance when:   (i) it was very cold outside (below 30 degrees), (ii) during the hunt, the trigger was previously squeezed with the safety on, and (iii) later, when the safety was slid forward to the off position, the rifle immediately discharged.

    These are facts that personally happened and are known to me.  No conjecture.  

     I just offer this for what it is worth.

Big Paulie

[wlmccann]

I meant to say SEAR and trigger on my last post. Big Paulie, please note I don't believe that it can't happen as it has obviously happened to you, but that I haven't seen any other than the 2 I mentioned that had not been improperly adjusted. I have adjusted a batch over the years and corrected a batch that someone else has messed up. I make my living as a gunsmith and some of the things  people do to firearms are really scary .

[skb2706]

Even an accidental discharge from a Remington (assuming that it has happened) could be controlled by proper gun handling and keeping the barrel pointed in a safe direction at all times. That Sako there doesn't appear that pointed in any direction would save you skin ....so to speak. Think I'll just stick to my 'dangerous Remingtons' that have never ever been a problem.

[Vern Humphrey]

Even an accidental discharge from a Remington (assuming that it has happened) could be controlled by proper gun handling and keeping the barrel pointed in a safe direction at all times. That Sako there doesn't appear that pointed in any direction would save you skin ....so to speak. Think I'll just stick to my 'dangerous Remingtons' that have never ever been a problem.

Well, yeeeesss, it could.  And simply by not chambering a round until game was sighted, keeping the muzzle pointed in the right direction, and so on, you wouldn't NEED a safety.

But the Remingtons HAVE safeties, and safties ought not to fail.  And when they do -- and do it in several different rifles -- that's a real problem.

[skb2706]

I must be blessed as I have never owned a gun that had a safety that didn't work, shot 8" groups at 100 yards with decent ammo, blew up for no known reason,  had the bolt handle fall off, was made of inferior materials (to the best of my knowledge) or even failed to go bang at the appropriate time.
If someone locates the mystery Remington that exhibits these traits....and they can not be traced to either poor maintenance, botched shade tree gunsmithing or abuse please contact me immediately as I would like to make arrangements to see the gun.

[Questor]

I assume that the Remington 700s must be pretty good because it's the most popular gun of its kind and it's been around for a long time. But I must say that the safety and extraction mechanisms on my 700 seem toy-like compared to my CZ 550's.  I'd rather have a safety that stops the firing pin.  I can't figure out how or why the extraction works as well as it does.

[Vern Humphrey]

Remington could easily adopt a 3-position, firing-pin blocking safety.  According to a friend who manages a Remington plant, the reason they don't is because it could be seen as an admission there was something wrong with the old safety.

The most recent fix, eliminating the bolt hold-down feature, has really turned me off on Remingtons.  I don't want to get a "click" when I call for a "bang" because I've inadvertantly lifted the bolt handle slightly.

[mr.frosty]

and to think I was considering a Sako before I got my Winchester

[Lawdog]

The problem with the Sako/Tikka's is a metallurgy flaw in their stainless steel.  It is affecting both the barrels and the receivers.  The Remington safety problem is much worse.

Remington knew it's Model 700 rifles had safety problems. They even launched an internal program to develop a safer rifle. And they did develop a safer rifle, but chose not to market it.

How do we know all this about Remington Model 700 rifles? Because the victims of the tragedies that have resulted from Remington's design defect have come to trial lawyers for help. Trial lawyers have uncovered the internal documents showing Remington's knowledge of this problem, and of their knowledge of safer alternatives. Trial lawyers have secured judgments against Remington, to aid those harmed and to try to get Remington to accept its responsibility for its defective product.

To the credit of Remington's new owners, the company is making changes. Remington is offering to replace the defective bolt lock mechanism. If you have a Remington rifle you can take it to a local gun shop to have the bolt lock replaced.

Thereason you have not heard about this is the secrecy agreements in previous litigation prevented much information about the dangers of the rifles from being made public. They are called "protective orders" or "confidentiality agreements."

Don’t take my word for any of this.  Ask Richard Barber, the father of Gus Barber, who was shot by his mother when she released the rifle's safety on her M700.  The gun firing was an unexpected event for Gus's mother, she didn't touch the trigger, she just released the safety.  Or just ask the many others that have had their M700’s discharge when their released the safety.  Check out http://pagunowners.tripod.com/public/gunsafety.html to see where Remington paid $17 million to one party.  Lawdog
 

[Graybeard]

Don’t take my word for any of this. Ask Richard Barber, the father of Gus Barber, who was shot by his mother when she released the rifle's safety on her M700. The gun firing was an unexpected event for Gus's mother, she didn't touch the trigger, she just released the safety. Or just ask the many others that have had their M700’s discharge when their released the safety. Check out http://pagunowners.tripod.com/public/gunsafety.html to see where Remington paid $17 million to one party. Lawdog

If she shot her son she should be going to jail. NOT collecting large sums of money from the gun maker. You don't point a gun at something you're not willing to kill. If you do YOU and not the manufacturer shoud suffer the consequences. I am so sick and tired of the sue first and ask questions later society that lawyers have developed int his country. Damn it if the released the safety with the rifle pointed at her son she must have wanted to shoot him. IF not she is too stupid to be allowed around guns to begin with.

[longwinters]

Well I have several Sako rifles and Remingtons and quite a few other brands.  Never had a "failure" with any of them.  I do find it interesting tho how a failure in any gun brings out all the nay-sayers that don't like that particular brand.  But they never seem to be aware or want to admit things about their own favorites  :eek:

Long

[Graybeard]

I resemble that remark.  :-D

But in my defense I can keep my rifle pointed in a safe direction and anyone who I hunt or shoot with will do the same or I'll not be around them again. I'd rather hunt with a person who knows safe gun handling and practices it with a gun with no safety than with one who keeps pointing their gun at me even with it unloaded and on safe.

BUT I can't control guns that blow up on me. That's out of my control and bothers me greatly. Folks dumb enough to point guns at others also bothers me greatly.

[Patriot_1776]

Longwinters Wrote:

Well I have several Sako rifles and Remingtons and quite a few other brands. Never had a "failure" with any of them. I do find it interesting tho how a failure in any gun brings out all the nay-sayers that don't like that particular brand. But they never seem to be aware or want to admit things about their own favorites

I regret to say, I spoke before I really thought; therefore, I have thought what I said over.  I don't mean, Sakos ARE CRAP!  I just mean, their apparent lack of action over the first incident has possibly led to another.  The last thing I want to ever see is someone here (like you Longwinters) to be posting a similar picture on this forum.  That being said, I just want everyone who owns ANY kind or brand of rifle, to make sure it is properly maintained, and cared for by qualified gunsmiths (or cared for by those who are familiar with working on their guns) who can ensure the saftey of the weapon for the sake of the owners and/or bystanders.  As it has been said, ANY gun can malfuntion just like any Cadillac or Porsche can have engine problems.   Patriot

P.S. Nothing can replace safe and proper firearms handling either!  Speaking of having safties on firearms, just like airbags don't alleviate the need to still use a seatbelt....  You know.

[longwinters]

I can really appreciate concern for the "image" of the hunter, shooter and rifle manufacturer as well as the importance of safety for those who still have the freedom to use such tools in pursuit of the happiness that firearms can bring.  I just hate to see us resembling piranas going after fresh meat, like I have seen on a couple of other sites.  As you know I really like those Finnish rifles but it too bothers me that they could screw up like this on these.  Not only am I concerned . . . but a little embarrassed  :oops:  :oops: after all, I own some of these and have claimed their greatness far and wide. Of course every manufacturer figures they are checking for safety as far as they need to . . . until something like this happens and then we say "you obviously have not gone far enough"!!  I will have to say that if Sako changed something in their process and did not do enough testing before selling the rifles their reputation has gone down in my estimation.  

Hey, can we talk about Glocks now?  I just bought one and I hear they blow up too!!! :lol:

Long

[Rogue Ram]

Hey skb2706 and others, just happens there is a fellow in my office that has a brand spankin new Model 673 Guide Gun in .300 Rem SAUM that does in fact go "bang" when: A. the bolt is cycled with the safety off, or B: gun cocked, and safety taken off.   I just called him on his cell to verify this. He bought the gun new, and hasn't touched anything.  This condition is exactly what can occur when the trigger pull is adjusted wrong. Could be a factory person just screwed up.  Gun is at Remington being fixed and should be returned shortly.

see my post under the Glock forum.  I have pictures of the Glock 22 that sheared off the slide rails and came apart recently......in the hands of an officer using duty issue ammo. Bad things can happen to any gun and/or gun manufacturer. I have my Glocks and I have my Remingtons.......I'd dump the fullsize Glock (for a smaller one if given the choice), but I see no reason to get rid of the ones where I have a choice in the matter for anything else. That is unless an epidemic of grenading guns occurs like the Sakos.

 

RR

[Buckfever]

Gentlemen I am concerned we are giving the anti's another front to attack us.  Everything made has problems.  The ability for any and all companies to aggressively pursue and correct these problems show their commitment to the product and customer.  To error is human to not correct it and communicate ASAP is wrong and short sighted.  The Vendors need to take care of their problems immediately!!!  Nothing would show more commitment!!!!!!!!!      Buckfever

[Big Tom]

:shock:
Whew!!! I bought a Finnlite 300 WSM last year. It didn't shoot as well as I like (about 1.75"). I sold it and got a new Sako 75 in .308 Win. That one is like the rest of my Sako 75s....Great!

To my knowledge Sako has just recalled all the finnLites! Lets give them a chance to clear this mess up before we condemn them. If Beretta doesn't then action is waranted....and I'll be griping as loud as anyone. :x

[daddywpb]

I agree with GB on this one. If that woman had a loaded rifle pointed at someone when she clicked the safety off, then the result is her own fault, and in my opinion she should be charged with a crime. ANY MECHANICAL SAFETY CAN FAIL. Muzzle control is the first basic rule of gun handling.

[BackCountry]

Is the stainless the only one they are having a problem with, I was thinking of buying a model 75 deluxe, but not if this could be the end result.

[tripod]

Hi, Boy it was easy to stir this pot although not my intention. I bought my Rem 700 new in the early/mid 80's. It was never a great shooter and the safety was loud. Killed a couple deer and elk at close range. Had about 40 shots through it including sight in. Then my wife was taking a little interest in going hunting with me. I had heard about the safety problem from a friend who had one fail. I wanted things to be safe for my wife and had an authorized Rem gunsmith check it out and why the safety was so loud. Checked out fine and cost me $25. Went to the range and set up. Went through the steps showing my wife every step and fired at target. Then she chambered a round with the gun resting on the bags and as the bolt closed it fired. I was sitting right next to her watching every move. Shooting is over and bought her and myself a new gun.  At that time I had no idea the trigger could even be adjusted let alone try it.     Now I also agree the woman who sadly shot her own son should have pointed the gun at the ground but she didn't actually point it right at him, apparently it shot through a horse trailer where he was on the other side. Then while discussion started at their church about this 14 other people said their Rem had discharged also. Now my opinion about muzzle safety. This is the first an most important thing to be reiterated over and over. But I will be the first to admit that I have inadvertantly pointed my muzzle in the wrong direction before. Be it stupid, tired, a slip in the mud, the ignorance of where your partner is, or coming onto some one by surprise in camo, and on and on. I think it has happened to everyone who will admit it. I can't count how many times I have caught a glimpse of the muzzle from respected hunters or family and even law enforcement or game officials.  I could go on for some time about Remington's very poor record of trying to avoid this. One of their own techs said this could be fixed for .32 cents, but this was disreguarded probably for fear of admission of hiding decades old knowledge of the problem.

[Big Tom]

:shock: I guess now I know why Remingtons come with 8lb triggers GB!  

[Vern Humphrey]

As I scan all the posts in this thread, a little voice keeps saying, "Winchester, Winchester."

Especially the new Classic Model 70s.