Author Topic: Martini project barrel question (Read 2130 times)

Les Brooks · « **on:** December 10, 2004, 02:38:39 AM »

After a delay on my Martini project for the past 6 months, I need to know what barrel brand and what twist on a 17 HMR did anyone use to make a custom 17 HMR. I am planning on putting this project up on the board when I get back to working. The barrel will be machined on top for a grooved base to slide into and then the the scope rings will be Conetrol brand. I will make the base for the Conetrol rings. I have a very beautiful English blank that will have lots of black stripes. The action will have a trigger block sliding safety which will allow for a very good trigger pull by blocking the trigger on loading the shell. I plan on using this rifle for crows around peanut fields this summer up to 175 yards. My 17 Rem will take it from there on out to 300 yards.

Les

wlmccann · « **Reply #1 on:** December 10, 2004, 04:54:17 AM »

Would really like to see how you do the safety. I have a .17-.357 planned on a Cadet and a couple of 12/15 rimfires to play with later. Green Mountain Barrels has barrels listed for .17 HRM, but I don't remember the dimensions for sure. I think that they are a 1-10 twist with a .173 groove. On another another subject, I got your CD allright but haven't had the time to examine it thoroughly. I am pleased with what I have looked at so far. Cursory examination shows some similarity with CST used to teach and the duplicator looks very doable. The fact that it can be easily stored when not in use is a definite plus. Thank you.

Prince of Wales · « **Reply #2 on:** December 10, 2004, 06:03:18 AM »

wlmccann that 17/357 sounds very interesting. Who has dies and reamers for it? What rifles would you consider to be good candidates for this conversion in either single shot,lever or bolt? Thanks. POW

wlmccann · « **Reply #3 on:** December 10, 2004, 06:44:00 AM »

Prince of Wales. JGS does have the reamer listed as either the .17-32 (shoulder angle) or .17 Saunders for Dick Saunders in Iowa who has done a lot of work with the .17's. Dies are available from RCBS/Huntingdon or Redding. With the lever guns the pointed bullets would preclude its use in a magazine and the pressures are too high. I am not aware of any bolt guns made for .357. Any good single shot capable of handling the pressure should be suitable. Saunders seems to use the Ruger #1 quite a bit if I recall correctly. The Cadet action, High Wall and Low Wall, Contender and Encore, etc should work out fine. Bullberry has barrels available for the Contender I think. Ross Seyfried has one based on a converted martini rimfire action that he spoke of highly in an article in either "Rifle" or"Handloader". Dick Saunders recommends a tight neck and you have to turn necks . He also states the brass seems to last almost forever with any reasonable load which offsets the forming and turning operations. Load data is available fron Saunders on many .17's. His address can be found on either Saubier.com or at Small Caliber News website

Les Brooks · « **Reply #4 on:** December 10, 2004, 08:20:09 AM »

The safety is made like the old Browning Double Auto. It slides behind the trigger and is on safety in the down position. With the trigger finger in the guard it is easy to lift up the safety with the knuckle finger just before shooting. This blocks the trigger so when unlocking the breech block it keeps the trigger on the sear and will keep the gun from firing. This is a very fine adjustment on the trigger and sear, so anyone trying this will need to know how all these parts interact.
MAKE THIS CONVERSION AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!! I do not know your abilities. I will try to find a picture of this conversion in my files.

Les Brooks · « **Reply #5 on:** December 10, 2004, 10:33:44 AM »

Here is a shot of the Trigger Block on the Martini.

wlmccann · « **Reply #6 on:** December 10, 2004, 10:40:12 AM »

Thanks Les. I understand all too well that anything I do is at my own risk. There was an article in either "Rifle" or "Handloader" a couple years back on a modern Rook rifle built in .357 on a Martini that the gentleman had added a safety to . He built up the sides of the trigger housing so it could be drilled for a cross shaft operated by a lever on the right side of the action. Looked kind of like a cocking indicator as is sometimes found on the large actions. The shaft was fitted a little at a time until the safety lever would just go into position and allowed no movement of the trigger. Would really appreciate a posting of your sliding safety if you find a picture in your files. Thanks again.

wlmccann · « **Reply #7 on:** December 10, 2004, 10:48:59 AM »

Thanks again Les. Looks like I was drafting a reply while you were posting the picture. Safety looks relatively simple and unobtrusive. Will do some some figuring and probably incorporate it into my rifle if I ever get time to get it going. Far simpler than the one described in my last post.

Double D · « **Reply #8 on:** December 10, 2004, 11:07:15 AM »

Les,

I don't know who is making barrel blanks for the 17HMR maybe Dan Lilja. I just did a 17 Hornady Mach 2 on a 1215 using a Redman liner. It is a tack driver!

Folks I hope you know what an honor it is to have the likes of Les Brooks grace our pages. He is a legend when it comes to Martini stuff.

Les Brooks · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2004, 02:17:26 PM »

Double D,
Thanks for the flowers. That action is one from the place that you put me onto about 6 or 8 months ago. I am wondering if a twist of 12 or 14 would be best for the 17HMR. I use a 10 twist on the 17 Rem. since 1972 with good results.

The safety above fits into a slot in the trigger guard of 1/4 in. I took small springs out of the pins that hold watch bands onto the watch to make the small detent and spring inside the safety. Two notches inside the trigger guard cut makes for a positive position for the safety. The trigger has a small recess milled to allow the trigger to move with the safety in the off position.
Back side of safety. Sorry for the large size, I didn't want to re-scan the picture if I could find it.

Hey guys start saving your pictures of your projects. My files go back to over 40 years. I wish I had made more shots of projects that you wouldn't believe. I made one of the first lever loop Win. 92's that went to Movie land.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/229499.jpg

wlmccann · « **Reply #10 on:** December 10, 2004, 06:27:38 PM »

Les. Thanks for the extra info on the detent arrangement and the link to the second picture. Also while checking on barrels, I found that Lilja and Shilen make .17 barrels that will finish to 26" and Pacnor to 24". The Green Mountain barrels have I believe a .173 groove diameter while the rest just mentioned are centerfire barrels with .172 groove. Check the websites to be sure of specs.

Prince of Wales · « **Reply #11 on:** December 11, 2004, 07:03:09 AM »

wlmccan I mentioned lever guns because I have a Marlin 62 that would be a good candidate for this conversion. Though its a lever its clip fed like a Win 88. It was originally chambered to 256 Win but is now a 357 Mag. Had`nt dawned on me that no bolt guns were available that would be suitable but on consideration I have to agree that would likely be the case.
Thanks for your input and information given on this subject. Very interesting. POW

wlmccann · « **Reply #12 on:** December 11, 2004, 04:28:39 PM »

P.O.W. I had forgotten the Marlin 62, probably because I don't ever remember getting one in for repair. That would eliminate the pointy bullets in a levergun problem, but I still wouldn't be comfortable with the pressure level of the .17-357. I have been thinking of this project off and on since "Guns & Ammo" did an article on a .17-357 that Steve Herrett had in the late '60's. I have had plenty of time to read and research. Still don't have it all the way figured out. Seems like the older I get, the more I am amazed at how little I know. Like Les Brooks says, you never stop learning.

Double D · « **Reply #13 on:** December 11, 2004, 06:13:07 PM »

Les go for a 1 in 10 twist for the 17HMR and 17 HM2. The bullets are only 17 grs.

Seems to work for me

Now if I can just stop flinching at the recoil...

wlmccann · « **Reply #14 on:** February 28, 2005, 08:27:21 AM »

Lester,
Have you made any progress on your .17 HMR?

Les Brooks · « **Reply #15 on:** February 28, 2005, 02:28:56 PM »

I have not made any progress on the barrel. I got caught up in moving into a larger place and when the days are nice out side I get to work on the yard.
The 17HMR sounds good, but am having second thoughts as to the range of this cartridge. I have been looking at the new 204 and the range it has for long range critters. The 17 Rem on a mini mauser is good for shots out to 275 to 300 yds. The 204 should be another 100 yds farther. I did look at the action and the wood today.

2520 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 02, 2005, 02:14:58 AM »

Question on barrels for a Martini project: I have a Martini Cadet rifle that is chambered to .22 K-Hornet. The problem is that this rifle has the proportions of a bench rest rifle-BIG barrel,stock and fore end. I would like to trim this down to something more portable. Figured to have the barrel turned down, new scope mounts installed, and restock the result. Suggestions on barrel profile/dimentions needed. Barrel is currently 1.125" without taper and is 22" long. Thanks in advance. 2520

Les Brooks · « **Reply #17 on:** March 02, 2005, 10:38:42 AM »

2520

I like to have a barrel about .650 at the muzzle and a nice taper to the area of the scope mount. A good round surface to mount the scope base is something that needs to be thought out in advance. My favorate way for a scope mount is to machine the base mounting plate into the top of the barrel and then make the scope base to use Conetrol rings.

The lighter barrels are much easier to carry in the field. Most of these lighter barrels will group about 1/2 in. in the calibers suitable for the little action. I am not one to spend a lot of time punching holes in paper. I would rather be out varmint hunting. Send me a PM and I will send some more details.

Les[/img]

2520 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 03, 2005, 02:42:32 AM »

PM sent

Lefty Behind · « **Reply #19 on:** March 07, 2005, 10:15:53 AM »

My cadet in 17HMR has a GM stainless fluted barrel. It worked out fine.
Lefty

Kiwi Rob · « **Reply #20 on:** May 22, 2005, 02:40:09 PM »

Hi , my martini is in .223 Rem uses a take off Winch Ranger barrel made the scope mount , I have put a plate between the action and barrel held as in Rem reciol lug ..
In my maratini it holds a bar from which the forend is suspsended so the barrel is truly free floating..

Shoots in the low threes mostly , sometimes gets to the low ,2's never over.5 , sure is hell on rabbits..Rob