Author Topic: deer in pa. ? none in east pa.?  (Read 1326 times)

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Offline CASE

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deer in pa. ? none in east pa.?
« on: December 09, 2004, 06:50:10 AM »
well ..... i went hunting  this morning in the  hawk mt  area of pa. and didnt see one deer ... deer hunting in this aera is the worst ive seen in  years no one is seeing any at all.. the only good thing is my  ruger super black hawk  got  some walking excercise today as i did the past  week and a 1/2 also ...lol im going back out at frenchcreek gamelands .. hopefully ill  finally see something ...i cant wait to shoot someting with  these 300gr, xtps  behind 18. grs of 2400 .... :shock:  anyone else in eastern pa. seeing or  not seeing deer ?  were they at? lol :roll:

Offline Graybeard

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deer in pa. ? none in east pa.?
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2004, 06:55:01 AM »
Blame it on Gary Alt. He changed the rules for you guys so now all you have are trophy buck deer. They are hiding behind every tree, ya just gotta look behind those trees.  :-D  Sorry just couldn't help myself.  :oops:

But I think I have heard more compliants since his rules went into effect than ever before.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline CASE

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pa.. and gary alt
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2004, 07:38:50 AM »
well graybeard ... hunting is at a all time low in pa. .. i think alt is fukk of it ... too bad  we cant  chase him down  in the woods .....hmmmmmmmm. he prob. doesnt even go out in the woods period!!!

Offline Graybeard

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deer in pa. ? none in east pa.?
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2004, 12:35:13 PM »
Quote
doesnt even go out in the woods period!!!


After all the complaints I've heard from PA since he got the new rules thru I'd think he'd be afraid to go out in the woods.  :-D Or even on the streets unless in disguise.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline gene4211

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east pa
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2004, 04:33:11 PM »
Spent 4 days hunting around hickory run state park in carbon county. Saw zero deer during daylight. The back yard had several does and one buck at night. Least amount I've seen in years. Enjoyed carrying the new g2 with 10 inch 30-30 bullberry barrel and bushnell holosight and 44 mag with 2x leupold. Sure beats lugging around the old 30-06 remington pump, especially since I like to hunt the thick stuff.

Offline trussmanypb

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deer in pa. ? none in east pa.?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2004, 02:27:52 PM »
I'm all for the new PA deer changes. Bringing the deer population to enviromentally sustainable levels is a good thing. I also like the idea that the buck I'm hoping to shoot will be a nice 8 pointer vs. a spike. The 3 points to an antler is producing some dandy bucks. As for the lack of doe,it's going to separate the hunters from the killers. Just one mans opinion.

Offline CJ

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« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2004, 03:40:35 PM »
As a longtime PA hunter, I will say this year I shot the biggest rack and bodied buck I have seen harvested in the area of Mckean Co where I rifle hunt. When I took him to the butcher, out of 7 bucks off to the side for mounts he was only mediocore. The antler restriction is showing results in rack size.
However I shot at 8:50  on the second day of the season, and this was the
FIRST deer I saw. Now in this area, coyote are getting common, and black bear are starting to be a real problem. Also the conspiracy theorists are sighting all the cougars that the PA Blame Commission or the paper mills or the car insurance companys are stocking in the woods to eat up the deer. I dont believe the stocking part, but I still believe I saw one 11 years ago up there. Seriously though, too many doe are being shot in the Northwest part of the state. All 4 guys in my camp bought doe tags this year and tossed them in the trash. Other camps fill tags and wives tags and kids tags and then complain theres no deer. Then I bowhunt in the SE part of the state, too many deer, and not much huntable ground.
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Offline cnTndr85

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deer in pa. ? none in east pa.?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2004, 08:31:00 AM »
CJ,
  Just curious as to what area of McKean Co. you're hunting in? I've been hunting in Keating and Lafayette Twp. near Bradford and all I've seen so far have been does......my brother had been seeing several nice bucks during archery season but they've all disappeared for now. There have been a few nice ones taken in the surrounding area, but nothing any more spectacular than the norm.
  We do seem to have an awful lot of coyote up here and I'm sure they're puttin a hurtin on the young deer. I haven't seen a big cat yet, but there has been talk.
  Only time will tell if Alt's on the right track or not, but for now it seems as there are far more against him than there are for him. I sure hope he knows what he's doin........One thing seems certain though, and thats the nuber of hunters in the area, definately at an all time low!
Mark
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Offline slilk 1

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deer in pa. ? none in east pa.?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2004, 03:25:31 PM »
Hello fellas:  I like the idea of 3 on a side, as one gentlemen put it, it seperates the hunters from the killers. I saw 3 legal bucks during pa season, and saw a dandy buck (guessing--- 16in inside spread, and all he had was 2pts on each side!!!!!!!!!!!!  Big Body weight, too. He came right by me about 30 yds and had 4 doe with him. I also had a doe permit, but chose not to use it, as I killed a nice 6pt with the 6.5 jdj the week before. If I didn't shoot anything in ny, I was going to try out the 309jdj today. Saw a total of 3 deer today, all does, not much shooting in the surrounding areas, and it was the last day of firearm season!!!!!!!!!!! No one hunting at all anymore. It was a very miserable day, the weather was lousy, but still spent the day in the loggy bayou stand. Better than a good day at work anytime.   slik 1 :-)

Offline CJ

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« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2004, 03:47:12 PM »
Mark,
I am just outside of Smethport, I can see the Keating gun club on 46 from the cabin. I'd say we are in the same neighborhood at least. Absolutly less hunters in the woods, I dont really mind that too much though.Across the road a young lad got all spoiled and took a huge 10 pt this season.
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Offline SingleFan

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CASE I BET IVE BEEN RIGHT THERE WITH YA
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2004, 06:45:55 AM »
Case,

I have hunted the Hawk Mtn. area for years now with reasonable success.  Guess what my dilemna was opening morning?  My buck tag was filled from archery and at 9:30am I saw the biggest buck I've ever seen on the ridge below the fire tower.  With an FA83 and only 35 yards between us, that was hard to pass up.  A serious keeper.  Hunted yesterday and saw him again so unless the flintlockers take him down...I've got a job to do next year.

Say what you want about Alt.  The nay sayers will be eating crow (and venison) in a few years.  My observation is it is working...all the spike shooters are the main complainers.  And I definitely believe the stat that most of the deer previously shot on opening day were 75% spikers...I've seen it year after year.

I lived in Oregon for a number of years and hunted several Western states during that time.  All Mr. Alt has done is incorporate what many other DFW's have been doing for years.
When the heart is light the feet are swift.

Offline cnTndr85

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deer in pa. ? none in east pa.?
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2004, 08:52:52 AM »
Quote from: Graybeard
Blame it on Gary Alt. He changed the rules for you guys so now all you have are trophy buck deer. They are hiding behind every tree, ya just gotta look behind those trees.  :-D  Sorry just couldn't help myself.  :oops:

But I think I have heard more compliants since his rules went into effect than ever before.


Well, it looks like Alt is out. PA Game commision announced his resignation yesterday.
Mark
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?Q=162956&A=11
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Offline knight0334

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deer in pa. ? none in east pa.?
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2004, 10:27:19 AM »
Quote from: cnTndr85

Well, it looks like Alt is out. PA Game commision announced his resignation yesterday.
Mark
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?Q=162956&A=11



oh my!  there is a god after all...

This year was horrible in the Clearfield, Jefferson and Elk County areas.  I didn't see one deer at all during the rifle season.  Even the road/highway kill count is way down.   No blood splattered I-80 or Rt.28 like years before.

I can care less about point counts or antlers in general.  Those are for trophies.  ..I dont hunt for sport or trophy.  I've seen doe bigger than most of the buck around this area.  They need to weed out the little deer and let the "trophy" buck live(just my opinion).  

...my stance is,  first legal deer to have the misfortune of walking out in front of me is dead.  I wont hold out for the umpteen point mega buck thats rumored to wandering around.
RIP ~ Teeny: b.10/27/66 - d.07/03/07

Offline PA-Joe

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« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2004, 11:17:10 AM »
I was out 6 days during the season and nothing. Last Monday I had three doe in the back yard.

Offline CASE

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ALT BACK TO THE TURKEYS
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2004, 08:59:10 AM »
well ,  graybeard  looks like  gary alt is finally out . yes  christmas comes 2  times this year !!!  dont get me wrong guys  .. im not a blood thirsty killer as one person hinted around at , from ( n.y. )  im just saying we spend our ,hard earned money .. vacation time from work,  and all the time  and effortit takes to get ready for the season .. we spend as much time in the woods  hunting  ...yes i said hunting  not killing ,,, but enjoying our sport  as we can!  and not seeing anything at all !!!  somethings wrong here guys or it was wrong !yes i like to shoot does for  meat  to eat and yes i like to shoot a big rack buck  also as i have done both a lot of times  with my handguns and my bow .. but there is almost as many times i had opportunitys to  harvest a animal but just watched  the beast go about its daily  routine  and letting it go . and getting full enjoyment  of watching said  animal . and thinking , ( hey i could have eaken that deer etc, ) but i let it go !! sooooo my finale word is ....... gary alt should go back to the tiurkeys were he belongs and  fits in with them  :) .......!! lol   hunt hard  hunt safe  and hunt to enjoy  ........ case!!! :D [/i][/u]

Offline JR5

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deer in pa. ? none in east pa.?
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2004, 02:09:05 PM »
CJ & cnTndr85,

Good to see your remarks. Our camp is on Rt. 6 between Smethport and Hazel Hurst--- right where Keating, Sergeant and Hamlin Townships intersect. No one has got a deer out of that camp to date and the sightings have been few and far between. The coyotes are visibily thicker and the bear sign is always more evident.

have a Merry Christmas!

Offline CJ

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« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2004, 05:19:12 AM »
And a Merry Christmas to you JR5.
 Know of a good place to get deer processed out there? I used Reiters before, but this year they wanted me to skin and bone the deer before they would accept it. If I'm going to do that I dont need them. Not happy with who we are using {right in Smethport}. Lots of hard bits in the ground meat. Maybe I'll just have to buy a grinder and do it myself.
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Offline BCB

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« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2004, 09:36:02 AM »
I’ve been hunting at the same location in Clarion County for 40+ years.  Much of the property I now own.  I don’t even purchase licenses anymore—it is just simply too complicated.  I do hunt with my dad, now in his late 70’s.  His property borders some on my properties and I just go to his house the 1st day of buck season and have a cup of coffee early in the morning—it is sort of a tradition that just won’t go away until there is no reason to go for the traditional coffee—time will take care of that.
On my property is an annulled township road that is about .6 mile long.  It is grown up in grasses that I keep mowed and on this I have a shooting bench/range.  I am in this area many hours per year.  I just am not seeing the deer of days gone by.  With the 4 point on one side restriction, it is very tough to get an antlered deer.  Not that it matters to me, but to some people it is quite important.  Seems it was important to me many years ago also!
Regardless, I shot my biggest buck ever in 1980. It was a 17 point (14 points were even so it technically was 7 on each side) with a spread of nearly 22”.  There were NO restrictions or insane seasons back then, just antlered season then antlerless season.  In the early 60’s, I would run home from the bus stop, grab my Model 70 and hunt the same area that was to become my shooting range.  On several seasons, I shot buck right at quitting time.  Antlerless season was the same, but Clarion County got 2000+ licenses as it allocation, not the million (!) or whatever it is now.  It was great if one got antlerless license, yet one could only shoot a buck or a doe—not 2 deer.  The Model 70 mostly gathers dust except for the few times each year that I take it to the range and confirm how accurate that darn 270 Winchester can be with Hornady 140 BTSP bullets!  I have taken my last ½ dozen deer with handguns—SRH and T/C’s.
Times have changed, and I don’t know if it is for the better.  Alt resigned or retired although I am not sure he was the entire problem with the deer hunting as some people indicate. I think he might have been offered a job in another state—I don’t know that for sure.  I do know that the days of seeing nearly a hundred deer (some where the same deer, of course) during the 1st day of buck season are damn straight done where I have hunted my entire life.  And so it goes…BCB

Offline JR5

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« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2004, 10:16:30 AM »
CJ,

No I don't know a good processor up there. Except for a few choice cuts, we tend to bone everything and can it.

Take Care & May God Bless in the New Year

Offline slilk 1

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« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2004, 02:32:37 AM »
There was no intention of anyone being a bloodthirsty killer or anything else for that matter. This is a forum and is open to discussion. No one if flaming anyone , and I agreed with another mans opinion. I also like to do more hunting than killing, so don't single a guy out. This is the guy from n.y. and i also hunt alot in pa and grew up in pa(northeastern Bradford Co)   slik 1 :evil:

Offline myronman3

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« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2004, 03:24:32 AM »
wisconsin is headed down the same path.   evidently they are using alt's method as a guideline.   we have gone from the best deer hunting imaginable to absolutely worthless in less than 3 years.   now i have a fourth season under my belt that again was terrible.   now they plan on raising license fees from 20 to 32; to sit in the woods and look at trees.  i at least like to see a deer once in a while.   whether or not i get a shot isnt the issue.   but when you sit a week solid and see nothing, that says alot.  
   some like big racks, others just like to see deer.  i dont think those that define a "trophy" as a deer with big racks only have the right to put lousy hunting on everyone else.   besides, even when deer were more common, i never had problems finding big bucks.  now, i can hardly find a deer.  
   a big part of the problem, i suspect, is the public vrs. private land.  there is alot of public, and to fill doe tags EVERYONE (including those with private land) go to the public land.    so what we have is private land teeming with deer, and public that is devoid of deer.
  i like seeing big buck as much as anyone,  but i aint willing to ruin deer hunting because some clown says my chances for a big one are better that way.   who the hell are they to decide that for anyone but themselves?  "big buck" hunting have ruined hunting in wisconsin.   at this point, i doubt i will be hunting deer next year.  time to start small game hunting and trapping.

Offline Cuernos1

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Support for the new rules
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2004, 09:36:11 AM »
Grew up in Pa..Moved with the Army for many years...Really thought I knew how to hunt till I met some good old boys in Georgia. Went hunting with them and shot a small 4 pt..After receiving the a$$ chewing of a lifetime, I was told that if I was hungry for meat shoot does. Little bucks need to be BIG bucks.. Made me think. Especially when I went back to my farm years later in PA and saw nothing but does and a few small bucks.

I shot my first deer this year after taking 6 years to set my farm up. I set it up and follow some real rules. No pushing, never enter the sanctuary area of 30 acres and only use a bow or muzzle loader. Nothing has been big enough for me to shoot for the last few years so I have waited. Last year, I saw 13 bucks the first morning all headed for my sanctuary area. During the season I was able to hunt as if nothing had changed on my place. This year saw 24 deer - 11 bucks and the rest does. Now what has changed??

I see more deer and the carrying capacity of my property is much better. The deer are healthier and the woods are coming alive...Before nothing grew as the deer ate it before it had a chance.

But what is different is the older bucks tend to be a bit smarter which does require taking more precautions..Additionally, I now live in Ohio where the hunting is great, too....

Another thing is that on most of my hunts around the USA, I tend to run into many Pennsylvannians and they are always complaining about the size of the bucks etc...Most farmers would not try to run 300 cattle in a 40 acre pasture...

So, bottom line is a thinner herd does reduce the risk of CWD and improves the overall health of the herd. It does make older smarter deer who may take a bit more effort than a yearling....Not trying to be harsh but all I ever hear when I am home doing work is complaining, mostly from folks who have never gone to another state to hunt. Try it you mite find out you have some really good hunting.
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Offline Tapper

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You're all mostly right IMHO
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2005, 02:28:01 PM »
For you who have private ground: It is apparent that you manage your ground with harvesting a nice buck in mind. Remember, however, it is you and you alone that determines which deer are taken. A food plot and 50 acres will do very well at pulling in good bucks and holding them there in your own sanctuary for you to observe and selectively harvest. Good for you, and good hunting.
I have some ground too, however, it isn't quite big enough to hold the deer, and they must travel across my neighbors' ground to get to me. The last nice buck was killed about 100 yards short of my son on a stand waiting for him. Oh, well.

Public ground has become another story. Yes, there are some nice bucks out there, perhaps a little nicer than before the antler restriction. But there have always been nice bucks out there, one is on my wall across from my Dad's best buck, and was taken with the same rifle. It was taken the year before the antler restriction. There are, however, fewer of them in total. Can you find one? Yes, if you have a bunch of time to locate him, he'll be out there somewhere, just like before. Here the problem becomes time and gun season bad fortune. For me to scout my best area would take me an entire day to get there, sneak in, do some real observation, and get out and home. How many trips would I need to locate and pattern that big guy for the first day, or get within bow range. (Yes, I've done that, too, but it took alot of time. Yes, it was worth it.) As for ambushing him the first day - well, that's if someone doesn't suddenly show up with his gps about daylight, and set up 100 yards away, makes noise and smells and such and take all your careful scouting and dump it into the poor investment in time column. Or, that big guy gets nailed by some 'one day hunter' as he evades his way from the truck door slam noises toward your ambush. Then, where is your effort's payoff? I am sure this is where the complaints come from. And I do believe they are totally, without doubt, justified. Big buck hunters always had opportunities to take a good buck. (That's one of the main reasons I went to archery hunting.) Now he and everyone else MUST take a medium to good buck, and there are damn fewer of them.

I have gone to hunting with a handgun for the specific reason of portability after the shot and getting as far away from everyone else, into the nasties, as I can. Also, it makes it easier to get the harvested buck off the mountain. I spend time and work hard at it. The last buck I harvested is the one I mentioned that is on the wall.

This year, four family members spent about 5 or 6 days each on the mountain. We saw about 30 deer total. We tend toward taking good bucks, but do take the occassional freezer doe. What was disturbing was that we only saw 1 doe that was over 2 years old. We passed on her. We only saw 2 bucks. 1 pickle fork and one very nice 3x3. No shots taken at the 6 point.

I live very near a "Trophy Bass' section of a good small mouth bass river. Bass must be 15" to keep. Pressure has increased a great bit in the past ten years. Fish this section now and you'll catch 14 1/2" bass. I think we're going to see mostly "14 1/2 inch" deer, so to speak. Remember, when the guys or gal takes the spike, he leaves the woods and doesn't know about the better buck that snuck by 2 hours later. Now he stays until he takes the top end buck, or settles for a doe.

No farmer ever kills his cows to have more bulls.

I have more I could add, but I think you know by now that Gary is not on my Christmas card list. I will only add this for now. I am retired and have lived and hunted in a few other states and countries. I am glad to see Gary go, but it will get much worse before it gets better. The damage is already done in the public hunting areas.

Good luck,

Tapper

Offline Cuernos1

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Still support the Alt rules
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2005, 03:48:30 AM »
Bottom line is of course there are less deer that was the overall plan.. Are there any farmers out there.....?? You can not put 100 cattle on a 25 acre place, we all agree...That was the major problem with hunting in PA...
No carrying capacity for the land..The deer ate everything... Until a few years ago they even ate including the flowers on my deck...And my woods were trashed nothing would grow...I planted it they ate it...

As for managing my property, it does not work as there are no game laws in the state of Pa....The police never get there when someone is there and the game commission is nothing more than a welfare organization as it can not arrest for trespassing only after a game violation...Been down that road too many times...

Additionally, my farm sits between the brown and down zones.... Public land, and three private farms that shoot anything they want.... and pass a buck, are you smokin something...??

I hunt public parcels all over Ohio, PA, NC, and California....There are deer there the thing I am noticing these days is there are fewer deer but they are healthier and I need to work a bit more, not just sitting on my fat A$$ waiting...

Big deer in Pa.... Ihave gone to every antler display there is....Pa does have a buck or two... But I hunt some other states that are a bit more progressive than Pa and we see pigs.....Go to Cabelas in Wheeling WV, you will not see a PA buck there but you will see 10 other states....My biggest problem in Pa is all my life there have been more negative know it alls than the other direction.... Same guys are complaining about the deer that told me I was stupid going into the Army to get a college education. Same guys that told me I was stupid for moving for a job...Now, I did that and have a few farms etc...Not cause I sat and complained but acted....All I can say for my farm in PA is Wal-mart or sub-division....I am going to ruin about 1200 acres by putting one of the above there...then I am on the move to another state with enforcement rules and will not listen to loud old wheels...and there are plenty of them.... :evil:
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