Author Topic: Just curious Graybeard..... (Read 1347 times)

scienceguy · « **on:** December 08, 2004, 09:08:56 AM »

Sorry to hear you had a falling out with T/C. I wonder if the reason why they don't send out locking bolts anymore is to prevent club-fisted owners from killing themselves,- the whole liabliltiy/lawsuit routine. Supplying bolts in the past when the legal climate was different is one thing it is a whole different matter today. If I ran a company like T/C, I would choose to have an important mechanical part replaced in-house rather than by the individual. Just seems the smart thing to do, given what has happened in the courts lately. Your decision to be counted among the T/C bashers is, of course, your perogative, but it puts you in a very small group indeed. I wonder too if you tried a second time to explain your situation, you might get a more cooperative answer. Don't give up yet. Sometimes it takes a little extra effort to get results. I really enjoy Graybeard Outdoors,- hate to see the boss perturbed.

Thomas Krupinski · « **Reply #1 on:** December 08, 2004, 09:20:41 AM »

For some time now there has been a trend at T/C to become less customer friendly. I believe that it is due to the attitude or belief at the top of the organization that their customers will continue to purchase their products no matter what hoops they are put to jump through.

It's almost impossible to get in touch with anyone in senior management, they don't have a toll free phone line, and they insist that e-mail is not a productive method of communication. That indicates that they just don't care what their customers think.

I have noticed this with other parts where they asked for the broken part to be returned before shipping a replacement. I was told the policy was was due to their belief that customers were stockpiling parts.

Now I am tending to think that it's not the ambulance chasers, but rather the bean counters that are the cause for these policy shifts. In the end it's going to cost them as excellent past customer service is what made up for deficiences in design and production.

scienceguy · « **Reply #2 on:** December 08, 2004, 10:00:48 AM »

Tom,

Good points! I bet the whole situation is a combination of legalities, lack of top management leadership, and the bean counters you mentioned. Just hate to see stuff like this happen. The shooting industry has traditionally been very good at working with customers, unlike other companies providing consumer goods and services. I have always tried to treat others the way I wanted to be treated. Wish everyone would do the same.

scienceguy

HogFan · « **Reply #3 on:** December 09, 2004, 06:24:04 AM »

Over the last year, I have dealt with 3 firearms related compnaies. I would have to say that T/C was nicest and easist to deal with. They took care of my porblem a lot quicker than they stated me over the phone. The worst and rudest I dealt with was Savage. They ticked me off enough that I will probably not by any of their products again, no matter how cheap they sale for. I hope the incident with T/C with GB and mine with Savage were just a once in a blue moon thing and not the norm, but I do understand him not wanting to support them again.

HogFan

armory414 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 09, 2004, 09:00:50 AM »

I have heard varied things over the last few years about TC's customer service. The pattern I seem to see is, it depends on who you talk to. If you get a customer service person, they seem (from the comments I've heard/read) to know little about customer service or the products. From those I've talked to who had problems, their best results came when they asked to talk to one of the technicians who actually work on the guns, not one of the people they hire to answer the phone. I've heard of guys who've talked to the gun techs, and have received replacement screws, extractors, etc., within a few days. Maybe if you try that approach you will get better results.

ms · « **Reply #5 on:** December 09, 2004, 10:09:39 AM »

I'am sure if grey beard was Bill Jordan. THEY WOULD HAVE LISTEN. TC SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT THIS WEB SIGHT CAN COST THEM ALOT OF MONEY. IF CUSTOM SERVICE GOES ON LIKE THAT! :lol:

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** December 09, 2004, 11:30:36 AM »

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From those I've talked to who had problems, their best results came when they asked to talk to one of the technicians who actually work on the guns, not one of the people they hire to answer the phone. I've heard of guys who've talked to the gun techs, and have received replacement screws, extractors, etc., within a few days. Maybe if you try that approach you will get better results.

I spoke with both. Got same party line from both.

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I'am sure if grey beard was Bill Jordan. THEY WOULD HAVE LISTEN. TC SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT THIS WEB SIGHT CAN COST THEM ALOT OF MONEY. IF CUSTOM SERVICE GOES ON LIKE THAT!

I'm sure you're right. But my name ain't Bill Jordan. But ya know what? I'd be willing to bet that if it could be quantified that GBO and it's membership has sold more TC products for them than any dealer in their network or anyone they pay to advertise with. More than the top 2-3 put toether I'd bet. A fact TC refuses to acknowledge.

Companies can ignore the internet if they wish. But they do so at the peril of their own company and it's long term profitability.

A company who refuses to provide prompt quality customer service when things go wrong risks losing their customer base also. Sure more new folks buy each day but repeat business is where all companies survive or die. Those who are serious repeat TC customers generally find their way to GBO sooner or later. TC has no clue what GBO membership means to their survival as a company.

I'm asking no one to do anything. I'm suggesting no course of action. I'm just stating what happened to me and others are dropping in their comments on what has become a very negative trend at TC. They've grown too big for their britches and forgotten how they got there. Generally folks like that end up getting taken down a peg or two. Already has happened to Taurus and for the very same reason. Quality dropped and Customer service has become mostly a joke. I went from being one of the most vocal proponents of Taurus on the internet to one of their most vocal detractors. Same as I did with S&W when they signed the agreement with the devil.

TnEncore · « **Reply #7 on:** December 10, 2004, 06:46:05 AM »

GB sounds like from your post they just want to fix it the problem themselves and not have somebody to try to who don't know what they are doing. I saw no need to get all mad about it and quit using their products. Im sure Remington, Savage, Browning etc....... would tell you the same thing.

Omega · « **Reply #8 on:** December 10, 2004, 07:56:43 AM »

If I follow this right you are mad because they wanted you to send your equipment in so they could correct the problem you are having. I guess I'm confused at where the bad service comes in. I may not feel that it takes a brain surgeon to change a bolt on my new Ford but if I want Ford to fix it, I have to take it to the shop and the certified tech does it.
Someone earlier touched on the real problem, the liability if the do it yourself fix goes awry. T/C is probably getting big enough to have had to defend themselves in a law suit and is insuring that they don't cause grounds for another.
Or are you mad becaus ethey don't credit you and this site for helping them sell guns?

Graybeard · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2004, 08:04:09 AM »

I've explained my postition on the matter in detail already. Just read it. I'm finished with this thread and any others started on the subject. You feel as you do and I'll feel as I do. I've asked no one here to do anything or believe anything. I merely made a comment as to my dissatisfaction with the way things are going with TC at this time. Bottom line I should not have to pay 20%-25% of the cost of a brand new frame to have it fixed so it will work. If you see nothing wrong with that then like PT Barnum said there's a sucker born ever minute.

I've not asked one single one of you to agree with me.

New Hampshire · « **Reply #10 on:** December 10, 2004, 11:32:32 AM »

Its too bad there sint a way you could get your bbls to me cheaply or at no cost cuz Im only a 45 Minute drive from Rochester and would be glad to bring them in for you. But alas, I guess shipping is gonna cost ya no matter what. A shame it has come to this. Im gonna tred lightly here and hope I never have a problem with my T/C or any T/Cs. If customer service is that bad Im hoping to never need it :? .
Brian M.

TnEncore · « **Reply #11 on:** December 10, 2004, 01:55:21 PM »

Sour grapes if you ask me.

22popnsplat · « **Reply #12 on:** December 10, 2004, 04:36:24 PM »

How many firearm manufactures will send you parts ?In The few experiences I have had I have never had one that would ship me a fitted part that would affect the locking of the action .

Graybeard · « **Reply #13 on:** December 10, 2004, 11:03:49 PM »

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Sour grapes if you ask me.

No one asked you as far as I know. I suggest you let it lay.

In spite of my previous comments let's take ONE MORE LAST look at this.

From day one when the Contender came out the concept was simple and ALL advertising has centered around the same theme. Barrel interchangeability and how quick and simple it is. All ads promise all you have to do is take out one or two screws as the case might be and one pin and viola you have a new gun ready to go in seconds. Every thing says all barrels fit all frames and still applies to G2 ads. So the entire selling point of the Contender/G2/Encore concept is quick change and full interchangeability. This is the ONE SINGLE selling point always driven home by them.

So now every time I buy a new frame I'm to be expected to pay from my pocket a sum roughly equal to 20%-25% of what I paid for it to have all the barrels custom fitted to it so it will do what all ads say it will do from the factory? You have got to be kidding. If you guys are so PC and think this is the way the world needs to be no wonder the dumocraps are so strong. Do you not accept that folks are responsible for their actions?

Do you no think if TC is gonna advertise that all barrels fit it is their responsibility to pay for that if they don't? I could care less if I had to pack it up and ship it all back. BUT DAMN IT NOT AT MY EXPENSE! Even Taurus as lousy as customer service is there paid for the return of the junker I bought from them. Twice in fact on same piece of crap. Should TC do less?

Are you so jaded and so in love with these guns you are willing to spend any amount of money from your pocket to make them work like the factory says they will? Do you not hold TC responsible for anything?

I'm of the opinion some one who cares more for such things than me should file a class action lawsuit against TC. No not me I'm not into lawsuits. BUT TC needs to be forced to do one of two things. They should either.

1. Make the things work as the advertisements claim or

2. Stop claiming it.

Kinda simple isn't it? WOW what a concept. Making things actually work as claimed and if it don't then cover the cost of making it work right.

Why should I pay when a brand new item I just bought won't work? Geez what the hell has happened to America?

sparks70 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 11, 2004, 07:22:00 AM »

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They've grown too big for their britches and forgotten how they got there. Generally folks like that end up getting taken down a peg or two.

I've explained my postition on the matter in detail already. Just read it. I'm finished with this thread and any others started on the subject.

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No one asked you as far as I know. I suggest you let it lay.

Graybeard,
I could not agree with you more on what TC should do, buttttttttttt I would like you to read your on comments starting with your first quote from above. Just finish reading before you snap off. The folks that write into this forum are the ones who got you here. It seems that every time I see a post from you it contains at least one smart @@@ comment and you are being standoffish. Do you think we are all stupid. Will you let us give you the same one liners and keep posting? Or will you kick us out. I enjoy this forum very much. I visit most days unless I am out of town. I do buy the products from your sponsors. I have learned alot from the other visitors. I see you weigh in on different topics and it seems like everyone is tip-toeing around you when they reply. Why do you even reply. I am really interested to see your reply. Are you going to let this post stay or are you just going to kick me out?

savageT · « **Reply #15 on:** December 11, 2004, 08:11:51 AM »

Gray Beard,
I have a suggestion. Would TC agree to this proposition; Would you be willing to meet them half-way? Here's my idea:
Contact a local TC Sales/Service Dealership in your area and drop off your G2 frame and barrels to them. They in-turn will receive the parts from the factory, and they'll do the fitting by their approved technician and you pick the modified parts up at the cost of the parts and shipping chgs. to you.
Does that sound a little too much to ask for?

??

Jim

TnEncore · « **Reply #16 on:** December 11, 2004, 08:20:37 AM »

Yeah GB I can let it lay I guess I will have too before I get kicked off. The only people that I have seen kicked off on the T/C forum is the ones that kept bad mouthing T/C's. I bet that won't happen to you though. I have been reading GB's T/C forums for quite a few years now, I know you was a fan of T/C it is hard to belive that one thing would turn you against them all together. I belive there is more to it than just having to ship barrels to them. But thats my opinion.

One more thing you should never come out and bad mouth a person's favorite gun conpany without expeting to catch flack over it. :wink:

Graybeard · « **Reply #17 on:** December 11, 2004, 12:48:34 PM »

Dunno about where you live Jim but there is no such here.

All I expected from TC was what they've always done in the past. Take care of the customer when a problem developed. It is NOT reasonable for me to pay $250 for a frame and then have to pay $50-60 to get it to work. I will NOT be a party to such foolishness. All that had to do was say they would pick up the tab to ship it and all would have been fine. It's that simple.

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Yeah GB I can let it lay I guess I will have too before I get kicked off. The only people that I have seen kicked off on the T/C forum is the ones that kept bad mouthing T/C's. I bet that won't happen to you though. I have been reading GB's T/C forums for quite a few years now, I know you was a fan of T/C it is hard to belive that one thing would turn you against them all together. I belive there is more to it than just having to ship barrels to them. But thats my opinion.

Doesn't seem like you have let it lay. No one has been kicked off here for bad mouthing TC. The ONLY folks who have been are the fans of a former advertiser who seemed to be able only to bad mouth everyone else in the business rather than just toot his own horn. And for the most part they left after he was kicked off. They weren't but he was.

There is no under lying hidden agenda here folks. It's called taking responsibility. WOW what a concept. Seems that TC like so many others in our modern society to include apparently some here don't believe in being responsible for their actions.

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The folks that write into this forum are the ones who got you here

The ones who got me where? What are you talking about? This forum is at best 5% or less of GBO. If it didn't exist at all the temporary blib it caused in leaving would be covered by new membership in a week's time. You sure sound a lot like a certain fellow who USED to be an advertiser here before he was kicked off and his money refunded. He fore told of the doom and glood to face GBO and that surely we'd fold up and blow away within six months. We've quadrulped in size since.