Author Topic: Thinking of a BAR, opinions needed  (Read 1644 times)

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Offline Graytimber333

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Thinking of a BAR, opinions needed
« on: December 06, 2004, 04:39:04 PM »
First of all, I would like to say that I am new to these forums and I must say that this is a wonderful place. I am a youth hunter, and I have been using an old Win. 64 30-30 for deer. It is a great gun but I think I am ready for something bigger. Bolt action rifles do not really appeal to me so I have been thinking about an autoloader. I have been thinking of getting a used BAR in '06. I love the looks of the BAR. I am familiar with Browning's products as I have a BPS Limited Edition in 12 ga. I have a local Browning dealer that I trust and they have a few used BARs that are in good shape.

  I do have some questions for all of you BAR owners. Is it really as accurate as a bolt action? I will be mostly hunting in areas where I will be shooting within 200 yards. However, I might be going on a bear hunt in a few years and I am not sure how far I will be shooting. Is the BAR capable of long distance shots, or is it more of a brush gun? I also want something that is reliable and will not let me down when my crosshairs are on that nice buck.

  I would rather buy a used BAR than a new one as they are significantly cheaper and I do not like the style of the new ones as much. Also, are the New BARs manufactured in Japan or Belgium? What year did they stop making them in Belgium/Portugal?

So, does the BAR seem right for me? Is it a good or bad idea to buy a used gun? Thank you all for your patience. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Offline Mark whiz

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Thinking of a BAR, opinions needed
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2004, 06:40:49 PM »
BARs are nice firearms.   I used a friend's for hunting for a number of years (in .270) and it always performed well.   It never spit or sputtered a bit and it never missed as long as I did my part.  

By the very nature of there action, a semi-auto rifle will not be as accurate as a bolt gun, but the BARs are usually nice and close.  And in .30-06, it would be PLENTY accurate out to at least 300yds for hunting anything bigger than a woodchuck.

If you get a BAR or any semi-auto...................the ONE rule to follow is NO hot or magnum-type loads.  Gas-operated guns are picky that way and can be damaged by too many of the wrong loads.  SO stay away from the Hornady Light Magnum ammo, any hot handloads, and probably the new reduced recoil ammo as well.
"Every moving thing that liveth, I give unto you as meat" (Gen 9:3)
Aim small.........miss small.
Trust God..........but keep your powder dry!

Offline Squeeze

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BARs
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2004, 09:46:39 AM »
GT,
 
Used BAR's can be a hit and miss proposition.  My brother has a Belgian BAR, in .30-06 Sprg, that is about a 1.5 MOA gun, that works well until it gets around 20 degrees F.  Then  
it has an occasional failure to feed.   I have helped a few friends, and acquaintances,
with problem BAR's, and most of the issues were tracked down to improper maintenance,
or worn/defective parts.  A couple just did not feed, occasionally, even when cleaned
lubed, and inspected for problem parts.  Usually an ammo changed helped, but not  
always cleared up all instances of feeding problems.  Most of these guns were  
well used Belgian BARs.  In general, I'd say the older Belgian BARs are good firearms,
but some may be a little quirky, and on average, may shoot a little larger groups,
than the new BARs being sold today.
 
As for buying a used gun, one really has to have it inspected by someone with  
experience with these guns.  If a used gun was taken care of, and doesn't have
a lot of rounds through it, it can be a good deal.  It can also be a dog, that doesn't
shoot well, or was poorly maintained.
 
My new .308 Win, LW Stalker BAR can shoot 1 MOA, with tuned ammo, and I have yet  
to have a failure to feed, or fire, in any conditions, that I have subjected this rifle to.
But to compare this BAR to my bolt guns, it does not match any of them in the  
accuracy department, when I get done tuning ammo for each rifle.  It is close to some
of them, and certainly plenty accurate, for the hunting purpose I have for this rifle(northern
forest whitetail hunting).  I would not recommend a BAR for hunting, if shots beyond
200 yards are expected, for most shooters, and most BARs.  As for dangerous
game, I think there was a story a few years back about some person using a
BAR, in 7mm Mag, to stop a charging brown bear.  So a BAR, in one of the magnum
chamberings, might be a good choice, for large bears.  Having spent some
time among brown bears, I'd opt for a magnum bolt action rifle, shooting deep
penetration bullets, and carrying a high capacity 12 ga. pump loaded with a mix of slugs,
and heavy buck. If they got past the bolt gun hits, I'd be looking to rip out big chunks with
shotgun!

My BAR Lightweight Stalker is stamped something to the effect of, "Made in Belgium
Assembled in Portugal".  So this one is not made in Japan.

The BAR is a good blend of weight, accuracy, reliability, and follow up shot capability,
for some hunting situations.  I wouldn't carry one out west, or even in the boreal
forests, and tundra,  of Canada, or Alaska.  I do like mine for crawling through the northern
forests of Wisconsin, for whitetail deer, or even for black bears, if that opportunity
ever happened.  

Squeeze
Walk softly, and carry a 1911

Offline Graytimber333

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Thinking of a BAR, opinions needed
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2004, 01:03:59 PM »
Thank you both for your help! I think I will look around for either a new BAR or a used one that is in exceptional condition. I thought the new BARS were made in Japan because that is where my new BPS was made. Anyway, it does not really matter where they are made as long as they are accurate and reliable. My Japanese BPS shoots like a dream. Low recoil and super smooth action.
 
 Back to the BAR, I am still very interested in obtaining one before next season. The main thing I am concerned with is the failure to feed.What exactly does this mean? Does the gun fire and fail to eject the spent shell or does it not go off at all? I am turning 16 this spring and next fall will be the first season that I will be on my own. I would be a little disappointed if I take the safety off, pull the trigger and hear that little "click".

 If I were to buy a new BAR, should I get the Safari or the Long Trac? I know for sure that I want it in 30'06. Is there any real difference? Is one more reliable than the other?

 I believe that the BAR is suitable for my hunting needs. I live in Maine and hunt in areas with ridges and small fields. I will be hunting black bear in a few years and I will be in a tree stand so I won't have to worry about having my rifle jam and getting charged by an angry bear. I am pretty careful about keeping my firearms clean and in good shape so I do not think I will have too many problems with the semi-auto action(although everyone falls in the mud at some point.)

  One other thing is durability. Are there any fragile pieces of the gun that I should worry about? Is the receiver sturdy and well made? Are there any plastic components?

 Thank you all for your help and patience. I like to learn as much as I can before I buy something, especially something as serious as a firearm. Thanks again.
Gray Timber

Offline Mark whiz

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Thinking of a BAR, opinions needed
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2004, 07:26:12 PM »
Gray,

A FTF (failure to feed) is just that..................for some reason the bolt doesn't catch the next round properly and push it into the chamber.   A number of things can cause this...................the previously spent shot didn't eject properly, the load maybe too hot or too cold, or the operating system could be binding - which would be indicative of no lube or a dirty system.  The one thing about gas-operated semi's is to remember that carbonized gas is being used to drive a piston that operates the bolt.   That is the same gas that leaves carbon fouling in your bore.  SO guess what.................it leaves fouling in the gas operating system too, so it has to be cleaned from time to time - at least after every 2 or 3 hundred rounds anyway.

As long as the physical parts of the gun are sound, you stay away from the aforementioned hot loads, and keep the op system lubed & clean..........................the gun is about as reliable as anything you can find to shoot.   And the unit is practically bullet proof - I know of no inherant weaknesses in any of it's parts.

Based on what you've described..................the Long Trac might be the better choice for you  since the stock & length of pull is slightly shorter.  That might make it good for a younger shooter like yourself and maybe a tad easier to handle in a tree stand.

Good Luck
"Every moving thing that liveth, I give unto you as meat" (Gen 9:3)
Aim small.........miss small.
Trust God..........but keep your powder dry!

Offline firstshot

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Re: Thinking of a BAR, opinions needed
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2004, 05:07:35 PM »
Quote from: Graytimber333
I have been thinking of getting a used BAR in '06.   Is it really as accurate as a bolt action?


Graytimber333

I bought a used BAR in 30-06 this past spring, worked up handloads for it over the summer and took a nice 8PT opening day.

In answer to your accuracy question........ If semi-automatics were as accurate as bolt actions, you would see them at the benchrest competitions..... but you dont!...... Bolt actions dominate!  So, if you are interested in benchrest competitions, get yourself a good bolt gun.

But that doesn't mean the Browning BAR's are not accurate.  My BAR will consistently shoot 3/4" Center To Center groups at 100 Yds with 165 Grn Nosler Partitions, 180 Grn Sierra Game Kings and 180 Grn Nosler Ballistic Tips.  So far, these are the only bullets for which I've worked up loads.  I have not shot any thing but handloads in this gun, so I can't speak to how it might do with factory ammo.

Dark Squares are 1/2", light squares are 1/4"



As you can see, a BAR (at least this BAR) is more than accurate enough for hunting.  In fact there are a lot of "Hunting" rifles out there, bolt and otherwise, that can't shoot sub MOA groups.

firstshot
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Make your first shot count!
Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun !!

Offline Graytimber333

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Thinking of a BAR, opinions needed
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2004, 06:34:03 AM »
Thanks again guys. I have decided that I will get a BAR. I just have to work my butt off this summer! Firstshot, that is some impressive shooting! That would be plenty accurate for my situation as I have no interest in bench shooting at this time. In terms of of scopes, I have a 3x9 leupold on my .22 mag that I was thinking of putting on the BAR when I get it. Would this be enough power? The power is quite low, so I thought that it might be a good choice since I will be hunting in thick stuff.
 Thanks for all of your opinions, you have helped me a great deal. I will let you all know when I get my BAR!

Offline firstshot

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Thinking of a BAR, opinions needed
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2004, 10:05:49 AM »
Graytimber333

Except for out west, and beanfield / powerline situations, most shots on deer are at 100 Yds or less.  Your 3-9 Leupold would do just fine, especially if you're hunting "the thick stuff".

I've got a 3-9X40 Burris Fullfield II with Ballistic Plex reticle on mine.  The Ballistic Plex allows you to sight in dead on at 100 Yds (vast majority of your shots), and then use the 200, 300, 400, 500 hash marks for the long shots, if an when they ever occur.



I haven't had the opportunity to check out the 300Yd and longer shots using this scope, but with my current handloads sighted in dead on at 100Yds, I'm 3/4" low @ 200 Yds using the first 200Yd hash mark, and  according to the charts, I should be 1" low at 300 Yds with the second hash mark.  I don't see myself ever taking a shot over 300Yds.  Basically this reticle takes all of the guess work out of determining the proper amount of holdover for those long shots.

Like you, I don't like the looks of the new Longtrak / Shorttrak models.  Mine is a Safari model and it suites me just fine.  I just love the beautiful wood and engraving.  It is a shear pleasure to shoot and hunt with.

Whatever you model you decide you want.....do NOT comprimise if the one you want is a little more expensive and you will have to save a little bit longer.  You're going to buy a gun that will last you a lifetime (even longer).....get the one you want.....no matter what it takes.

Good luck.  I know you'll be perfectly happy with a BAR

firstshot
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Make your first shot count!
Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun !!