Author Topic: Model 96 .44 mag help needed (Read 1627 times)

mag41vance · « **on:** November 11, 2004, 01:01:32 PM »

I've been trying to develope an accurate load with some 200 gr Hornady JHP, and it has been awful so far. 4 inch groups have been the norm no matter what loads I've tried.
I'm starting to think maybe the scope is the culprit.

I have IMR4227, H4227, IMR4198, H110, W296, WC820,WC680, Unique.

I am shooting these in a Model 96 Ruger rifle.
Any load suggestions?

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** November 11, 2004, 05:51:26 PM »

Yup. Load it up in your car or truck and take it to the gun store and trade it for a Marlin or Winchester lever action. I've heard nothing but sad tales from folks owning those rifles. Not one of Ruger's better ideas. Or if you are willing to use factory irons try an EMF Hartford rifle. Nice version of the old Winchester '92 but no scopes for it.

mag41vance · « **Reply #2 on:** November 12, 2004, 01:24:15 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard

Yup. Load it up in your car or truck and take it to the gun store and trade it for a Marlin or Winchester lever action. I've heard nothing but sad tales from folks owning those rifles. Not one of Ruger's better ideas. Or if you are willing to use factory irons try an EMF Hartford rifle. Nice version of the old Winchester '92 but no scopes for it.

I'm surprised at you GB! I didn't think you Bama boys would throw in the towel so easily. :wink:
I am not ready to deep 6 it yet. I have tried a total of 5 load combinations, with 180 and 200 gr JHP bullets.
I will give some 255 gr CLSWC GC .430 specials that leftoverdj gave me a try.

One load that showed promise was a JHP240gr Winchester Factory load. I will break it down and try to duplicate it.

If after trying at least 20 load combinations I'm not satisfied, then I'll find a new .429 rifle.

Thanks for the heads up on the bad nature of this rifle. Now my expectations won't get too high, and perhaps I'll find what the 96 likes along the way.
vANCe

De41mag · « **Reply #3 on:** November 12, 2004, 03:45:25 PM »

:-D :-D :-D :grin:

Way to go GB, that was a good one.
I found out after one rifle that ole' GB is right.
Words of wisdom carry a lot weight.

Dennis

Graybeard · « **Reply #4 on:** November 12, 2004, 04:47:27 PM »

Facts is facts. I know people personally right here in my area who've tried them and with no success. I've read reports of head aches with them on web sites. Some times a manufacturer just develops a loser. I'm pretty sure this is one for Ruger.

I wish you all the luck in the world with it. Try as hard as you wish. Then when you give up and dump it be sure to come back and tell us.

mag41vance · « **Reply #5 on:** November 15, 2004, 12:33:47 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard

Facts is facts. I know people personally right here in my area who've tried them and with no success. I've read reports of head aches with them on web sites. Some times a manufacturer just develops a loser. I'm pretty sure this is one for Ruger.

I wish you all the luck in the world with it. Try as hard as you wish. Then when you give up and dump it be sure to come back and tell us.

Well I seem to be headed in the right direction.
The Winchester Factory rounds (240 gr jhp shot three shots into a 2inch circle @ 75yds.
It also shot the 255gr LSWC GC rounds into a two inch group at 75yds. ( after two shots to foul the barrel.

While its not MOA. It is much better than the 4inch groups I was getting with the 180gr and 200 gr bullets.

It is apparent to me that heavy is much better so that narrows down the direction I'll test.

mag41vance · « **Reply #6 on:** November 16, 2004, 03:28:15 AM »

I disassembled a Factory Winchester, and this is what I found.
240gr JHSP, over 23.5 grs of Powder( w296 I suspect), and I'm sure Winchester LP primers, over a good roll crimp.
I will try to duplicate this and let you know.

ping925 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 07, 2004, 08:14:31 AM »

I tend to agree with old GB--I have a 96/44 that patterns like a shotgun--can't seem to do anything to improve it--Can't give it away! The word is out on these lemons. My NEF shoots 2" groups at 75 yds--you need a sheet of newspaper for the Ruger.

Graybeard · « **Reply #8 on:** December 07, 2004, 08:20:34 AM »

Quote

I disassembled a Factory Winchester, and this is what I found.
240gr JHSP, over 23.5 grs of Powder( w296 I suspect), and I'm sure Winchester LP primers, over a good roll crimp.
I will try to duplicate this and let you know.

Been a long time. When you gonna let us know or are you ashamed to? :lol: Yes Winchester uses W296 but a non cannister grade of it. Similar but not exactly like what we reloaders use. Darn close tho.

mag41vance · « **Reply #9 on:** December 15, 2004, 11:37:14 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard

Quote
I disassembled a Factory Winchester, and this is what I found.
240gr JHSP, over 23.5 grs of Powder( w296 I suspect), and I'm sure Winchester LP primers, over a good roll crimp.
I will try to duplicate this and let you know.

Been a long time. When you gonna let us know or are you ashamed to? :lol: Yes Winchester uses W296 but a non cannister grade of it. Similar but not exactly like what we reloaders use. Darn close tho.

I rolled up 20 of those babies, and they are shooting just under 2 inches @ 75 yards. That is much better than anything else we've tried.

When I can get the gun back from my son I'll shoot a group for your viewing pleasure.

Rob from Maryland · « **Reply #10 on:** December 21, 2004, 11:05:04 PM »

I am not a regular poster but I do read posts here. I have a 96/44 and I get groups around 1.5 to 2 inches from 50 to 100 yards with Winchester 250 gr. in the white box. My biggest problem is that the take down gets loose after a few shots. Now I cured this by using Lok-tite on the screw but when you take the rifle down to clean it you have to clean the screw every time before you put the rifle back together. One thing that I did that might contribute to this is that I removed some material from the barrel band so it would not touch the barrel. I did this for accuracy's sake. It seems when I first the got rifle I shot it and it got loose and I did not touch the barrel band. I have three 10/22s that I customized and I have found that the barrel screws for the wedge that holds the barrel on are also the same size threads as the take down screw. So I used a Dremel tool to reshape the screw to fit the stock so it was flush. The head is too long. I did this also with the 96/44. The head is Allen and I am hoping that I can keep it tight without using Loc-tite. I just did this the other day and I have not tested it. I did notice that the original take down screw seem not to fit very well when I put the screw into barrel block without the stock; even when it was snugged down it seemed to wobble. I would think that most people with the 96/44 would check this. I have read that most people with this rifle got bad groups. I believe 96/44 is the most accurate out the Winchesters and Marlins in that the barrel has a 20" twist rate and you can free float the barrel like the 10/22. Now keeping the action and barrel tight on the stock is another matter. I also appears that the stock needs to be glass bedded all over. Another thing I noticed was that the stock is lighter than my original 10/22 stocks and I wish I knew what American hardwood it is. I don't think it is birch. I have used UMC 180 gr and the 96/44 did not like them at all. If anyone is interested I am now using the NECG(New England Custon Gun) rear sight that attaches to the scope mount and I use the original front sight. I use the .250 in. tall .340 wide riser from Williams. I was surprised how small my groups were iron sights.

Thanks

loader1 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 30, 2004, 05:59:10 PM »

I have the Ruger model 99 semi auto, very similiar to your model 96. First off I would make sure the scope is tight with nothing lose. A little loose will make a big difference. Maybe try another scope just to confirm things. I also assume you have had a good gunsmith drop the trigger pull to around 3 lbs. I have done the above and this alone made a big difference.

Next I came across a recommended load using Hornady 265 grain ( .430 flatpoint #4300). This bullet was designed for the 444 marlin and hold together very well resulting in excellant penetration. I use cci 350 primers followed with 21.2 grains H 110 powder. This powder will give a good complete burn around 1600 FPS very consistent 1 inch groups. COL IS TO FIT THE MAGAZINE. Try different powder amounts till you find the right barrel harmonices. I started with 18.0 grains then loaded every .2 grains to max load of 22.2 grains. I shot each load till I saw where the POI remined very close together. USING A GOOD SOLID REST. I then loaded several of the similiar grouping loads and shot them repeatedly in different weather conditions until I found what grouped the best.

So far this combinatination has gotten be a nice 6 foot black bear, a 5x5 brow tine elk and 4 whitetails from 3x3 to 5x5 points. I am happy with my carbine just have to find what the young girl likes and keep her happy. She will preform for you!!!!!

IN REVIEWING MY NOTES YOU MIGHT WANT TO TRY 240 GRAIN BULLET USING 24 GRAINS OF W296 OR H110 WITH WIN LP PRIMERS. I OBVIOUSLY WOULD RECOMMEND RESEARCHING THIS LOAD AND PROCEDING WITH CAUTION CAUSE IT IS UNTRIED BY ME. THIS LOAD WAS REPORTED TO BE A UNIVERSAL ACCURATE 44 MAG LOAD

Best of LUCK
LOADER1

Old Griz · « **Reply #12 on:** December 30, 2004, 06:59:25 PM »

:cb2: I have never even SEEN a 96 except in the catalog. I didn't think anyone ever really bought 'em. Just thought it was a mistake that Ruger was too unwilling to admit they made.