Author Topic: ? Need to buy deer/Coyote Rifle Which One ? (Read 1665 times)

WildcatTC · « **on:** October 30, 2004, 01:35:54 PM »

I am buying a rifle this week.I have never owed anything but varmit rifles i 22-250 never a deer calliber.There is good Coyote hunting around here and a lot of Deer.I was thinking of getting one of the WSM"s But would like opions of you Guys that have been shooting this type for a while.I can reload if needed.I do need info as I would like to get what I need ordered to give me some time to get used to the rifle. Deer season starts here in 20 Days.

Thanks in advance

mjbgalt · « **Reply #1 on:** October 30, 2004, 01:43:27 PM »

sounds like you need a .243.

you can load up 55 grain bullets for the coyotes or move up to 100 grains for deer.

they are normally very accurate and with the 100 grain bullets they can kill a deer well over 200 yards and will take a coyote at about the same range. you can even use em on groundhogs (if you can hold it still) for almost 300 yards.

i have a weatherby vanguard in this caliber...but almost every bolt gun is or has been chambered in .243. i recommend anything by savage, and of course my weatherby vanguard.

-Matt

Val · « **Reply #2 on:** October 30, 2004, 05:35:40 PM »

The advice I received before I bought my 25-06 was:

If your going to use it primarily for coyotes with an occasional deer, buy a .243. If you're going to use it primarily for deer with an occasional coyote buy a 25-06.

leverfan · « **Reply #3 on:** October 30, 2004, 05:59:14 PM »

I have to throw in a recommendation for one of my favorite low-recoil rounds, the .260 Remington. If you're a handloader, this cartridge is fantastic. You can load 80-100 grain frangible bullets for varmints and coyotes, 100 or 125 grain Nosler Partitions and 129 grain Hornady bullets for deer, and you can go all the way up to 160 grains for bigger game. I would use it for elk or black bear with 140 grain and heavier bullets. It wouldn't be my first choice for that game, but a 260 would do the job if I did my part.

If you don't reload, go with the 25-06, I suppose. The .243 isn't as flexible as the slightly larger rounds, since bullet weights and sectional density in available loads are lighter than a lot of folks want.

Frankly, I don't recommend calibers less than 6.5mm/.264" for medium game and up, although I'm well aware of what the 24 and 25 calibers can do. The 26s just happen to be the smallest caliber rounds with good sectional density bullets widely available, which means good penetration is easier to get, even with non-premium bullets. My kids will likely get 6.5x55mm or 260 Remington rifles when they begin deer hunting.

There's no reason to beat your shoulder with a WSM, not with your intended use.

lik2hunt · « **Reply #4 on:** October 30, 2004, 06:03:40 PM »

What Val said.......good advice.

sgtt · « **Reply #5 on:** October 30, 2004, 07:44:56 PM »

The new 25WSSM might be an option.

handirifle · « **Reply #6 on:** October 30, 2004, 09:04:45 PM »

Wildcat
Lots of good advice, having never fired one, but read a lot about them, I'd go along with the 25-06. The 25 WSSM is an option, but not one I'd consider. The 25-06 has been around a while and isn't going away soon. The 25 WSSM does nothing new, in my opinion, except possible feeding issues.

The 25-06 will do all the 243 will and more.

I'm leary of some of the new WSSM's because they are so short AND so FAT. I realize the effeciency advantage, but ammo is still expensive and harder to come by. I don't thin all of them will survive. Just my opinion.

The 30-06 case will always be available, just incase the 25-06 is not, can the WSSM's say that?

Besides, the 25-06 is available in a lot more rifles.

jgalar · « **Reply #7 on:** October 31, 2004, 02:24:10 AM »

If you have a 22-250 you already have your coyote gun, you just need a deer gun. You could choose most anything you want.
It sounds like you want one gun that could work for either deer or coyote depending on what crossed your sights while out there. Which means shooting the same load. I would think the 260 or the 25-06 would do it.

azshooter · « **Reply #8 on:** October 31, 2004, 03:06:30 AM »

For your stated needs I highly recommend the 25-06.

With a 75 Gr Hp you get 3700 fps making this a devastating varmit round while still having very light recoil.

With a 120 GR Nosler Partition you get a respectable 2900 fps. I have personally taken 3 large Elk with this load. The long bullets get great penetration. While I do own a 300 WSM, I would pass on the 25 WSSM. It costs $30 a box and has no improvement on the 25-06. You have a very good choice of bullets in between for Antelope etc as well.

P.S. I bought my Ruger 25-06 when I was 15. I am 38 now and I shoot about 100 rounds a year through it and it still shoots 1/2 inch 5 shot groups.

WildcatTC · « **Reply #9 on:** October 31, 2004, 04:15:36 AM »

As for Jgalar's post I agree with the 22-250.I may have wrote my post wrong.I did have a 22-250 many years ago but not now.I had a model10 heavy bbl Varmitier single shot and it was awsume gun but it is long gone now .

WildcatTC · « **Reply #10 on:** October 31, 2004, 04:38:57 AM »

Well Guys

I think I will get the 25-06 for now.It will be a heavy BBl one I think they point better at least for me.bottom line the bbls dont heat up as much.

Now I just have to decide Which Gun (Savage,Rem,Howa,Win,ECT)

HMMM

savageT · « **Reply #11 on:** October 31, 2004, 05:33:15 AM »

Wildcat,
You sound experienced since you mentioned handloading. I like the suggestion about the 25-06 but that would be a long action. Why not consider going to the 7mm-08 which is based on the .308 short-action. Recoil is not an issue with the 7mm-08 and makes a good varmint cartridge as well.
About the heavy barrel......NO! You are purchasing a carry weapon for deer as you state, and you want a light, fast swinging gun. Stay away from a heavy barrel. Heating up the barrel is hardly an issue with a hunting gun where the first shot is most likely the only shot fired.

Jim

Val · « **Reply #12 on:** October 31, 2004, 06:27:40 AM »

I bought the Savage 110FP in 25-06. It has the accutrigger and it's one of my most accurate rifles. I originally was considering the Savage 111 with a 22" light barrel. Then I realized the 110FP with a 24" heavy barrel only weighed 1 pound more. I don't think that one pound is much of an issue.

Lawdog · « **Reply #13 on:** October 31, 2004, 10:00:51 AM »

Wildcat,

Excellent choice on the .25-06 with a heavy barrel. All three of my .25-06's wear bull weight barrels and I carry them deer hunting all the time. I prefer the spot an stalk method of hunting and find the heavier barrel to be helpful on off-hand shots(which I really do take unless their is no other shot possible). Any caliber larger than .257 is way over kill on varmints, if you can find bullets suitable for varmint hunting for them. A good scope choice would be one with 4-16x or there abouts. All my .25-06's wear 6-24X 50mm scopes. Keep us informed on your choice. Small groups and tight lines to you. Lawdog

Zachary · « **Reply #14 on:** October 31, 2004, 10:13:55 AM »

Quote from: Val

The advice I received before I bought my 25-06 was:

If your going to use it primarily for coyotes with an occasional deer, buy a .243. If you're going to use it primarily for deer with an occasional coyote buy a 25-06.

I couldn't agree more. :grin:

Zachary

leverfan · « **Reply #15 on:** October 31, 2004, 10:29:06 AM »

Quote from: Lawdog

A good scope choice would be one with 4-16x or there abouts. All my .25-06's wear 6-24X 50mm scopes.

Holy cow! Are you checking the religious affiliation of those critters before you shoot 'em? :shock:

A 3-9x with 40mm objective and one inch tube is all you need for hunting, and then some. It's cheaper for the same quality, has a wider field of view, it's lighter, transmits as much light as the human pupil can take in, and it's possible to turn it down to a useable 3x level when hunting tight brush. On the rare occasions that I hunt with a scoped rifle, it's set at 3x, unless I see some good reason to change it.

Lawdog · « **Reply #16 on:** October 31, 2004, 12:02:04 PM »

leverfan,

Actually 24X helps when checking for fleas and ticks on the deer before shooting. Keeps the women folk happy. :-D

Really, when you are busting varmints at 400 plus yards(or trying to) a 6-24x 50mm helps and when you get used to one works very nicely for big game. I put high powered variable air rifle scopes on my pellet rifles. All my hunting handguns wear 2-7x except for my one and only T/C Contender in .22-250 that wears a 3-12x. I like my scopes powerful and like I said once you get used to them they work in all kinds of conditions, even on running game. Lawdog

WildcatTC · « **Reply #17 on:** October 31, 2004, 12:19:21 PM »

Well Guys

Here is what I'm thinking now 25-06 In a savage 110 FP or one of the 12's but will have Heavy BBL and min. 4 X 12 scope up to 24x scope.

I agree with lawdog we do need to check for fleas before firing.

rickt300 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 31, 2004, 02:32:03 PM »

Keep your 22-250 for coyotes and get a 270 for all else. It can easily double for coyotes and gives up nothing on deer.

SeaBass · « **Reply #19 on:** October 31, 2004, 04:17:46 PM »

Sounds like a good set up but If it were me I would not get a heavy barrel for a deer rifle. You really don't need it like you do with a varmit rifle.
But if you really want a heavy barrel why not opt for a 270win like rickt300 said. The extra weight will tame the recoil quite nicely.
The .25-06 will work on deer no doubt. The .270 just does it a bit better. You can throw a heavier bullet and if you ever want to hunt larger game the .270win is about the minimum most people would use.
I know it's tough to decide because there is always a round with a little more power and before you know it you are back with a 300mag or wssm again.
If you wanted a varmit/deer rifle .243 or 25-06. If you want a deer/coyote rifle .270win or .280rem. Just my opinion. The .25-06 will do the job if you so choose.

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #20 on:** October 31, 2004, 10:22:30 PM »

Very interesting read as I would also like a dual porpose and let the Wally .270 go by as being on the large side. Centerfire deer is Illegal here but I do have access for out of state deer within 150miles. Dont want a rifle in the vault thats too big for varmints while being legal to hunt them with any caliber on private property.

The .260: Caught my attention, especially since J Carmichel has a hand in it. Jim also likes the high powered glass. Said he put a 10X on one of his wifes latter rifles and she ask him what the deal was with the iron sights! :-D

The .25-06: Is timeless. Appreciate the threads on this caliber.

The .257: Would like to here some feed back on this as a "dual choice".

The .243: Had one of those Wally vangards been chambered for this, I would have immediatly purchased it. Still get to shop though, which is half the fun.

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #21 on:** October 31, 2004, 10:22:30 PM »

Very interesting read as I would also like a dual porpose and let the Wally .270 go by as being on the large side. Centerfire deer is Illegal here but I do have access for out of state deer within 150miles. Dont want a rifle in the vault thats too big for varmints while being legal to hunt them with any caliber on private property.

The .260: Caught my attention, especially since J Carmichel has a hand in it. Jim also likes the high powered glass. Said he put a 10X on one of his wifes latter rifles and she ask him what the deal was with the iron sights! :-D

The .25-06: Is timeless. Appreciate the threads on this caliber.

The .257: Would like to here some feed back on this as a "dual choice".

The .243: Had one of those Wally vangards been chambered for this, I would have immediatly purchased it. Still get to shop though, which is half the fun.

huntsman · « **Reply #22 on:** November 01, 2004, 03:24:11 AM »

If handloading, you can't beat the 6.5x55 Swedish mauser or the almost identical .260 Rem for light recoil, accuracy, and deadly effectiveness on game from prairie dogs to moose.

85 gr up to @ 3300 fps
100 gr up to @ 3100 fps
120 gr up to @ 2900 fps
129 gr up to @ 2800 fps
140 gr up to @ 2700 fps
160 gr up to @ 2500 fps

.25-06 is a great cartridge, but is overbored for its caliber, and you get more recoil for about equal killing power as the 6.5x55/.260. Bullet selection maxes at 125 grains, and best performance is usually in the 80-117 grain range. Will do the job, but is limited on the upper end of bullet weight and kicks more getting it done.

.257 Roberts is a good choice, but once again bullet selection maxes a bit on the light side for deer.

.243 is a time-honored deer/coyote cartridge, but bullets max at an even lower 117 grains.

Others are available, but IMHO, none do dual duty with the ideal range of bullets for large varmint/deer as the .264 calibers. In the .264 calibers, the most efficient case size/bore ratio is found in the 6.5x55 and .260. This is where the stellar reputation of these cartridges comes from.

Val · « **Reply #23 on:** November 01, 2004, 04:35:00 AM »

You need to get a medium bore because, that gives you a good excuse to buy a larger bore for bigger game. It also gives you a very good excuse to buy a smaller bore for varmints.

WildcatTC · « **Reply #24 on:** November 01, 2004, 06:01:01 AM »

See what yall think

found a Savage 110FP in 25-06 Blue with SYN. stock That they will order in for $440

No for scope best I can come up with Local is Simmons 6 X 18 Pro Hunter
At $104

I Was thinking more of a Simmons 6 X 18 44 Mag @ $160

WildcatTC · « **Reply #25 on:** November 01, 2004, 06:11:02 AM »

Other option is Found Savage Package @$360.

What Yall think?

SeaBass · « **Reply #26 on:** November 01, 2004, 06:34:38 AM »

Couldn't find them any cheaper at Walmart?

I use a 4-16x40AO. I wouldn't recommend a scope that won't go down to at least 4 power if you will be taking into the woods. Anything more than that will be of little use in the thicker stuff. I would definitely make sure it has an adjustable objective. I have a Simmons Pro50 2.5-10x50 it's a decent scope. Wish it had an AO though.

Nothing wrong with a Savage 110 they are well known for their accuracy.

As you probably know Walmart has some great deals on rifles right now if they have any left. Lots of guys here on GB have cashed in on these deals myself included.

huntsman · « **Reply #27 on:** November 01, 2004, 06:42:09 AM »

Just for comparison, here are some options I found on web auctions for the 6.5x55/.260:

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=6186521

http://www.forthehunt.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=24981847

http://www.forthehunt.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=24806753

http://www.forthehunt.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=25062452

http://www.forthehunt.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=25074269

http://www.forthehunt.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=25065677

http://www.forthehunt.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=25073871

http://www.forthehunt.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=25034237

THE#1hunter · « **Reply #28 on:** November 01, 2004, 12:43:27 PM »

I agree with mjbgalt about the .243 ....g/l

Val · « **Reply #29 on:** November 02, 2004, 05:30:26 AM »

Sportman Guide has some pretty good prices on the Redfield scopes:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/

I just bought a Redfield Tracker in 4X16 for my 243. I was pleasantly surprised with the optics quality.