Author Topic: Is It Just Me or What???  (Read 1151 times)

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Offline Lawful Larry

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Is It Just Me or What???
« on: October 28, 2004, 04:23:25 AM »
I think I have had enough of this damn Encore BP barrel.  I have never had a BP gun that was so finicky on bullets.  I finally got my Encore barrel to shoot a group.  Not a great group, but one that I can go into the woods with.  And hope I get a close shot.  My barrel only likes bullets that are less then 300 grains.  Anything bigger and the bullets will fly every where.

I sent the barrel back once and they said there was nothing wrong with the barrel and sent it back to me.  Well they may make other great barrels but they know nothing about the BP barrel.  

I met a fella at the Bass Pro shop and he said the Encore BP gun was at the top of the list for returns.  He said they all said the same thing, It is too hard to push a bullet down the barrel, you can't get a good group or the bullets will not stay on paper.  These are the same problems I am experiencing with my barrel.  

I have an inexpensive NEF / H &R that shoots any type or size bullet and is a tack driver.  Go figure.  Glad I don't have any problems with my other Encore barrels.   :wink:

Is anyone else having this problem with the BP barrels on Encores???   :(
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Offline Sean

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« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2004, 04:29:00 AM »
I went through a lot of different bullets and powder (loose and pellets) before I found what worked in my BP barrel. I finally settled on Clean Shot loose powder (changed to Triple Seven when it came out) and the Barnes 250 gr bullet. They are a little harder to push down the barrel but I'll deal with it. Sean

Offline Redhawk1

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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2004, 06:07:08 AM »
Lawful Larry, I have 3 Encore muzzle loaders and sold a forth to my friend. The encore M/L I have all shoot great. I would not hesitate to shoot a 150 yard shot with any of them. With all due respect, I think that the Bass Pro fella was blowing smoke up your ***.  :eek: I know a lot of people that shoot Encore Muzzleloaders and all of them have great success. Also the gun shops around Delaware can't get them fast enough. I have not heard of any returned to the gun shops or any problems. I can shoot 295gr. power belts and precision rifles 195 gr. DC sabots with under 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards all day long. My son's 45 cal Encore shoot like a dream. 1 inch groups at 100 yards with Barnes 195 gr. sabots. I find almost all muzzleloader a little hard to push the bullet down the barrel, but the Encore for me is the easiest. So to answer your question I am extremely pleased with Thompsons Centers Encore M/L barrels.  :D         I hope you find a good load to works for you in your Encore.
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Offline armory414

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« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2004, 08:51:58 AM »
I've heard there are some differences between the .45 and .50 caliber Encore barrels because of the wall thicknesses--too thin in the .50?  Anyone have experience with this?

Offline Redhawk1

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« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2004, 08:53:31 AM »
Quote from: armory414
I've heard there are some differences between the .45 and .50 caliber Encore barrels because of the wall thicknesses--too thin in the .50?  Anyone have experience with this?


I have both 45 and 50 and I have not noticed.  :D
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Offline Bullseye

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« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2004, 03:54:50 PM »
Well my wife and I both have 50 caliber Encores.  I have 4 freinds that have Encores.  They all shoot great.  Mine will shoot anything I put in it.  My one friends is a little pickier, but not very.

As far as hard loading, that is not due to the Encore in my opinion.  That is due to the nature of the sabots that everyone chooses to shoot.  Have you ever tried to load a sabot in a sidelock, they are tough in them too.  If sabots are loading hard, try Powerbelts, they slide down like butter.  45 Cal sabots load harder than 44 cal sabots.  Barnes or Red Hot bullets load harder than either.  Maxi-balls will load pretty easy.

Some guns will not shoot the 44 cal sabots accurately so you must look at a harder to load sabot option, or something like the Powerbelts.  Bottom line is that there is not an industry standard for the barrel dimensions of a black powder barrel.  They are will vary and that is just the way it is.

Someone is this forum recently sent a barrel back to T/C because it was not grouping and T/C said it probably had a bulge in the barrel (it might have been you, I cannot remember).  I did not buy that when I read it, sounded more like sabot failure to me.  Sabots are great and I shoot them myself but they require more experimentation since their are more variables with how they work than in the old days of just stufing a Maxi-ball down the barrel.  Aint technology great, sometimes!

You also do not say how much powder you are using.  When you start getting up there over 100 grs., the type of sabot becomes more important because of the pressure.  Guess what, the higher pressure sabots are much harder to load and they are more prone to fail and lead to poor accuracy.  I have never been a fan of shooting the big powder loads because of the other problems it creates.  If you look at a velocity chart, the gain is very little for the amount of powder stuffed in the barrel when you get up into the magnum loads.

Good luck with your Encore, I have no doubt it can be made to shoot well with bullets in the 240 to 300 gr. range.

Offline Thebear_78

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« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2004, 07:07:46 PM »
larry-

Sorry to hear about your problems with the 209x50 barrel.  I have had a few encore 209x50s and other than the fact that the wood stocks seemed rather prone to cracking while loading stuborn sabots I didn't have any trouble with them.  My latest one is a stainless 209x50 and it regularly shoots 3 shots into 1 1/2" at 100 yards.  I have even shot some pretty good groups with it at 150 and 200 yards.  I wouldn't hesitate to shoot out to 150 yards with it on whitetails, matter of fact I've done it.  I also like the 250gr barnes MZ expander, talk about terminal performance.

Offline DaddyPaul

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« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2004, 12:49:02 AM »
My 209X50 will shoot 1.5"s at 100 yards fairly easily as well.  It does this with bullets ranging from 245 to 295 and 100 grains of 777.  I run a patch with a little solvent down my barrel a few times after every third shot or so and have no problem getting the bullet to seat easily.

Offline Ranger413

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« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2004, 04:23:30 AM »
My 209X50 is currently shooting 100gr. Triple 7 loose with a 300gr. Hornady XTP sabot.  It will shoot better than 2" at 100 yards with this loading.  I did some experimenting initially with sabots and powerbelts.  For me the sabot worked a little better.

I too clean after every third shot.  I run a patch with some bore butter on it down the barrel a few times and the load up again.  When I am at the range I try to shoot like I would be in the woods.  No cleaning between the first and second shot.  As far as the third shot goes I'm just shooting it at the range for a grouping.  I doubt that I'd ever get/need a third shot in the field.  I've muzzle loader hunted for years now, killed several deer with a variety of 'em, and have never needed a second shot.  

No complaints here.

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Offline throttleman

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« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2004, 06:53:03 AM »
Fox Ridge Outfitters (T/C's custom shop) offers a barrel for the Encore which has a 1-48 inch twist to accommodate big bullets.  I had an Encore and was equally disgusted and did consider a  1-48 inch barrel.  I ended up going with a G2 which I am fairly happy with.  Good luck.

Offline Doc T

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« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2004, 04:12:39 AM »
I don't have an Encore, but I have three T/C muzzleloaders: a Hawken, a Renegade, and a White Mountain Carbine.  NONE of them will accept sabots very well.  I just about have to drive them in by hammering on the ramrod.  The post above about the custom barrel in 1 in 48" twist sounds good.  My Hawken and Renegade have that twist and both shoot Powerbelt bullets extremely well and they are the easiest and cleanest to load.  Powerbelts don't seem to shoot well in faster twist barrels

Offline Hellrazor

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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2004, 11:48:05 AM »
My 2 encores both shoot the T/C 250gr XTP's great behind either 777 or pyrodex.  About 1.5 - 2" at 100yards is more then acceptable for whitetail.

Offline Lawful Larry

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« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2004, 04:46:44 AM »
Quote from: throttleman
Fox Ridge Outfitters (T/C's custom shop) offers a barrel for the Encore which has a 1-48 inch twist to accommodate big bullets.  I had an Encore and was equally disgusted and did consider a  1-48 inch barrel.  I ended up going with a G2 which I am fairly happy with.  Good luck.


Like I said in my post, I finally got good results with a bullet that was 300 grs. or less.  The 295 Power Belts are the smoothest to go down and shoot very well.  The 300 gr. Hornaday saboted bullets had the best groups.  

I think the lighter bullets will work better in the Encore barrel.  Doesn't the 209x50 barel have a 1 in 28 twist?  That may be the reason why the smaller bullets do much better.  

As to charge I found that only 80 to 90 grains of Clean Shot will work for me.  Some people will say to go with 110 or higher to get better shots.  I don't find that to be true in my tests.  Different strokes I guess.  

The one thing that I can see is a lot of work to find a mixture that will work in my gun.  As to the Encore being the greatest thing since sliced bread, B.S!  I bought an NEF Sidekick and it will eat any bullet and drive tacks, all for about $159.99 + tax!!!!!   I will probably keep the BP barrel, but only as a back up for the NEF in the future.  

I love TC products that I own and wave their flag whenever I can, but will not do so for the BP barrel.  Just my thoughts on the subject.   :-)
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Offline poncaguy

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« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2004, 05:03:08 PM »
My Encore 50 shoots very well with 3 777 pellets and 245 or 295 Powerbelts....easy to reload......withs sabots, the 2nnd  and 3rd shots are a real pain to load.... :eek:

Offline Lawful Larry

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« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2004, 06:02:54 AM »
Well seems the Encore worked well.  I got my buck on Thurs. and it was big by Virginia standards.  It was well over 200 lbs. and had six points.  He was running thru the field I sat on and managed to get a running shot at about 50 or so yards.  

I Used the Hornaday jacketed sabot 300 gr SP for the first round and used the power belt for the reload.  It was amazing how fast I could reload the second shot, ;)!!!  First shot was a little off with a spine shot at about 10" aft of the vital spot.  All in all it was a great shot for a running shot.

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Offline Steve E

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« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2004, 08:11:38 AM »
My 209x50 works great with 2--50 gr pellets of Pyrodex and the 250 Gr. Barnes Expander. They do load a little tight. I run a moistened spit patch down the bore between every shot or two and things work great for me. The Barnes Expanders really hammer a deer, when you hit them there is no doubt about it.

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Offline Redhawk1

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« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2004, 07:23:26 AM »
Nice looking buck there.  :D
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