Author Topic: most accurate ?? (Read 3156 times)

sureshot2040 · « **on:** October 25, 2004, 12:55:32 PM »

it seems i read somewhere that the remington 700 was the most accurate rifle out of the box?
we are trying to figure out what rifle to buy
what is the best combo of accuracy and value??

anweis · « **Reply #1 on:** October 25, 2004, 01:16:03 PM »

"what is the best combo of accuracy and value??"

My order of preference, to answer your question:
1. TIKKA T3
2. SAVAGE (make sure that it has Accutrigger)

Lawdog · « **Reply #2 on:** October 25, 2004, 01:31:00 PM »

sureshot2040,

Remington is far from the most accurate out of the box rifle made today. Actually its quite away down the list. The honor of most accurate goes to Savage. If you are looking for the most accurate out of the box factory rifle than get a Savage. The Savage AccuTrigger deserves all the awards and raving reviews they are getting. Lawdog

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** October 25, 2004, 01:40:30 PM »

Perhaps. But when I want an accurate rifle I'll still buy Remington. I figure my chances of getting a SUM MOA gun from them is as good or better than from anyone else. I'd pit their varmint rifles against any other manufacturer right out of the box and put money on the outcome.

Buffalogun · « **Reply #4 on:** October 25, 2004, 02:21:08 PM »

DIE HARD!!!

Buffalogun

jvs · « **Reply #5 on:** October 25, 2004, 03:31:38 PM »

Some people can be deadly with no matter what firearm they pick up.

I think if others would spend as much time shooting and understanding ballistics as they do trying to find the most perfect weapon, some would turn into shootists.

Most rifles can be made to shoot well, but not all shooters can follow suit.

In most cases, a Remington is a well made firearm. Not always as accurate out of the box and on the bench as some others but close enough for most people.

It would be nice to thread a needle everytime, especially in woodsy areas, but I dont know anyone who hunts from a bench in the woods.

Try shooting your hunting rifle off-hand instead of off the bench. You will see that most any rifle is just as accurate as any other.

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** October 25, 2004, 03:49:06 PM »

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DIE HARD!!!

That could well apply to me and Lawdog both. :eek: He is as much against Remingtons as I am for them. That is one topic he and I just can't agree on. :roll: Such is life.

Quote

Try shooting your hunting rifle off-hand instead of off the bench. You will see that most any rifle is just as accurate as any other.

Ya sure got that right. The least accurate rifle around here is an old original vintage Remington Model 7 in 7-08. That rifle has since day one been a consistent 1.5" to 2" shooter. Only recently have I found a sub MOA load for it and that's the Hornady Light Mag. But that rifle has been in use now for got to be getting close to 30 years. First by me, then my oldest son and now my wife. We've taken it on hunts here in Bama and in several other states. Since day one it has never missed a shot on game and has never required a second shot on anything by either of the three of us.

Even tho it is only a so-so shooter it does the job fine. Had it been a 1/4" shooter it could have done no better.

jeff · « **Reply #7 on:** October 25, 2004, 03:55:14 PM »

I agree with Graybeard.

All things being equal, for me, the Remington is still the better choice.

There's also a mature supply line with just about everything you can think for the Remington. I don't believe the same is true for the others.

Donaldo · « **Reply #8 on:** October 25, 2004, 06:00:03 PM »

Thats sure enough true. If you look in the big after market catalogs for triggers, speed locks, etc, probably #1 is Mauser, probably #2 is Remington. Probably too close to tell for sure.

bchannell · « **Reply #9 on:** October 25, 2004, 11:30:10 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard

Perhaps. But when I want an accurate rifle I'll still buy Remington. I figure my chances of getting a SUM MOA gun from them is as good or better than from anyone else. I'd pit their varmint rifles against any other manufacturer right out of the box and put money on the outcome.

One of these days if I ever get all my projects caught up, I'll take you up on that. I won't say you're wrong, but I'd be willing to put some money on it. I really don't think a Remington can outshoot a BOSS equiped Browning Abolt, just for one example. Ever see the Browning challenge? Those guys shoot some pretty amazing groups with stock Abolts. I'm not even a Browning fan, but they sure do shoot.

Ruger is also putting some top notch barrels on their latest 77's. My newest 260 sporter is a "one ragged hole" shooter at 100 yards. That makes somewhere in the neighborhood of 9 out of the last 10 were super shooters, with the lone 7X57 not being, but I didn't fool with it much, so that's sort of unfair to say it didn't shoot.

On average, gun for gun, I'd say a Savage would outshoot a Remington. Some of the new Savages have super barrels on them also. I gave my son a 270 Savage that is one of the most consistently accurate rifles I've ever bought. It's killed a pile of deer, and keeps on shooting.

In my booke CZ's will outshoot almost any Remington, they're hard to beat.

I have a Winchester Classic Fwt in 7mm-08 that no Remington has been able to touch in that caliber. I've not had a boatload of M70's but this one is a shooter big time. But one gun is not a trend. I've had a few and all shot pretty well.

jvs · « **Reply #10 on:** October 26, 2004, 12:39:48 AM »

Quote from: bchannell

Quote from: Graybeard
Perhaps. But when I want an accurate rifle I'll still buy Remington. I figure my chances of getting a SUM MOA gun from them is as good or better than from anyone else. I'd pit their varmint rifles against any other manufacturer right out of the box and put money on the outcome.

One of these days if I ever get all my projects caught up, I'll take you up on that. I won't say you're wrong, but I'd be willing to put some money on it. I really don't think a Remington can outshoot a BOSS equiped Browning Abolt, just for one example. Ever see the Browning challenge? Those guys shoot some pretty amazing groups with stock Abolts. I'm not even a Browning fan, but they sure do shoot.

I think I'd pay to see that competition.

While some people couldn't hit a full grown Bull Elephant in the @ss with a Peterbilt, it would be interesting to see two shooters go head to head with stock, off the rack rifles for bragging rights.

Of course it would have to be standing, sitting and prone with factory ammo and peep sights. Just so shooting ability is clearly in the picture.

In most cases, too much blame is put on a product that doesn't meet high expectations. The used gun racks are full of perfectly good rifles that some people trade in because they have bad shooting habits, among other issues.

Shooting from a bench tells you nothing about practical experience except when you miss in the field, it wasn't the gun. Which should be a clue that is often disregarded.

Willyp · « **Reply #11 on:** October 26, 2004, 02:52:03 AM »

I must say"Out of the box accurate"? Sako!Tika? Maybe! Remington?No way!Savage?99% of them.
I have shot BR,in the Factory class,for a few years and it is basicly a Savage to Savage battle! If there is a Sako,at the shoot,it mostly will win.Savage will be second place! Not many of us can afford a $1000 gun,to shoot paper!The Sakos are always in the 6PPC chambering,going against the 223 or 22-250's?
This past shooting season,I had 5- 2nd and 2 third places.
Remingtons,if they showed up,where at the bottom of the score sheet!

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #12 on:** October 26, 2004, 05:04:50 AM »

Sako----that why I now own 2 of them.

Tikka's are also very accurate.

The Cooper I had was also very accurate---but it was only a single shot and they only had them in varmint calibers----supposedly they make them up to .308---but I've never seen one. I now have a Bushmaster Varminter for those duties.

Browning's with a little tweaking---mostly with the ammo---will lay them in there too.

Weatherby's are hit and miss---I had one that was very accurate---the 2 others I had were just so so.

Ruger's--like Weatherby----seem to be hit and miss also------some are very good----some are just so so.

Winchester's and Remington's have been poor shooters for me---I won't own another of either of them unless something would drastically upgrade the quality of them.

Won't own a Savage---accurate or not---the action is horrible.

Have looked over the CZ's---the overall quality seems so so----but I've heard a lot of good things---so might wind up getting one in the future.

I don't mess with any rifle---other then adjusting the trigger(if needed)
and load development . With the Sako's--Tikka's and Cooper---I could pretty much throw any old load in there and get a decent group----no other guns have been like that for me----and sign of just how accurate and well made Sako's-Tikka's and Cooper's are.

As for practical field shooting----how can you ever be confident in a gun that won't shoot worth a dang off the bench??? I make sure my rifle is a tack driver---and then practice from field positions.

I know this is the bolt action forum----BUT----for practicing from field positions----the AR-15 is near perfect----they are accurate---low recoil---ammo is cheap----instant feedback on your shooting----and due to the magazine capacity--you can instantly correct and shoot another to see how you're shooting.

High Brass · « **Reply #13 on:** October 26, 2004, 07:01:57 AM »

You'll likely find out that you mention a brand name, someone hates them and someone loves them. I have a Savage and a Ruger bolt action and love them both. I'd buy another one of either brand in a heartbeat. I have never owned a Remington M700 and I doubt I will. Nothing personally against them, I just prefer the other two that I mentioned.

Seedsntrees · « **Reply #14 on:** October 26, 2004, 07:02:33 AM »

For "out of the box" accuracy....TIKKA or SAVAGE w/accutrigger!

My two cents worth!

roper · « **Reply #15 on:** October 26, 2004, 08:08:09 AM »

This year I got a factory winfwt 300wsm,tikka t3 300wsm and a rem 300rum looked at the sako finlight. Used the win fwt as a host action for a custom 300wsm(rifle won't group less than 2 1/2" at 100yds). Tikka groups less and a 1" at 100yds with 3 shot group same for the rem 300rum. It's a pretty rare case for me when a rem won't shoot. can't comment on savage,sako or ruger haven't bought one in years. My vote goes to Rem. I've got acouple older sakos in 6ppc and 22ppc single shot actions and they are real good shooter. Acouple guys at the range have some coopers and they shoot pretty nice. I seen one of the new sako 6ppc and it doesn't seem to shoot as good as the older model. I get to the range at least 2/3 times a week so get to see alot of the new toys. I'm not impressed with the new kimber. Only seen one of the new savages and he was working up some loads and looked like it wanted to shoot. Well good luck.

Graybeard · « **Reply #16 on:** October 26, 2004, 08:36:13 AM »

Quote

I have a Winchester Classic Fwt in 7mm-08 that no Remington has been able to touch in that caliber. I've not had a boatload of M70's but this one is a shooter big time. But one gun is not a trend. I've had a few and all shot pretty well.

Then bring that Winchester and your money on down here to Bama. We'll shoot them on my back range range. You'll go home a bit ligher in the bill fold. I'll use my Rem. 700 LSS Mtn. Rifle and factory ammo against you. Last week I double checked it for this hunting season, it needed no adjustment after a year of no use. Group size was 1/2" at 100 yards with factory ammo. So if you want to see a Remington outshoot it just come on down.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #17 on:** October 26, 2004, 10:21:31 AM »

I don't shoot or own any Ssssss...... :shock:
SSSSSSSSSaaaaa.....

I just can't bring myself to stoop that low! :eek: If they keep making those cheap, flexible stocks, and those cheap button-rifled barrels -- that pick up so much copper in so many instances from what I understand -- then I never will own one. I shot one of 'their' Tacticals, a 20" barrel'd .308 -- and it was ok....but nothing to write home about.

Tune a Remington at home, and you will probably have a shooter! That's my experience thus far.

SS'

Lawdog · « **Reply #18 on:** October 26, 2004, 10:55:25 AM »

Graybeard,

Quote

That could well apply to me and Lawdog both. He is as much against Remingtons as I am for them. That is one topic he and I just can't agree on. Such is life.

Just the Remingtons made from the mid 1980's on. I think the older ones are great. :-D

safetysheriff,

Quote

If they keep making those cheap, flexible stocks, and those cheap button-rifled barrels -- that pick up so much copper in so many instances from what I understand -- then I never will own one.

Why not buy one with a wood stock. Sure their wood stocks are not fancy but they are solid, fine grained walnut. If you have never owned one how can you say the button-rifled barrels "pick up so much copper"? Just because you heard it or someone told you? I used to think Savage bolt actions were no good too UNTIL my son bought one and the first three sight in shots went into a group that measured just over 0.34" @ 100 yards. I bought one, a M10 in .270 WSM, and it started out shooting groups just over 0.5" and has only gotten better with load work(sub 0.5"). I have seen a good number of bolt action Savage's show up at our club and they all shoot great. One thing that taught me about this is not to knock the Savage rifles until you buy one and see for yourself. Lawdog

LouD · « **Reply #19 on:** October 26, 2004, 12:04:03 PM »

Thought I'd chime in with my recent experiences...
I've purchased 3 rifles in the last year, a Bushmaster 223, and 2 Win 70 Featherweights, a .243 and a 300 WSM. All 3 went through a 20 round break-in routine of shoot 1 clean, shoot for the 1st 5 rounds, shoot 3 then clean for the next 15 and then done. The results are pleasing... with the 223 I can put 5 shots under .5 moa, often being able to completely cover 3 with a dime (Win 45 gr White Box Varmint Loads). There were no mods to the gun, however I did swap the Leupold for a Nikon with less eye relief that did result in tighter groups. In total I now have about 500 rounds through this gun. The 300 wsm has 100 rounds through it to date and will typically put 2 in the "same" whole with the 3rd close by. Best group this past weekend was about 3/8th of an inch shooting Federal PowerShock 180 gr. This gun wears a Zeiss conquest 3x9, which I believe has the parallax set at 100 yards. The trigger was lightened to 3lbs. The .243 likes Hornady Light Mags, with similar results as the 300 WSM. I have 300 rounds through the .243, wearing a Leupold 3x9 with the parallax at 150 yards. The trigger on this is about 4lbs, but will be lightened to 3 when I get around to it. I somtimes think that shooting at 100 yards with the parallax set at 150 affects the poi more than the accuracy of the gun... who knows. My conclusion

I'm starting to think that "out of the box" accuracy doesn't mean too much when compared with proper break-in, finding ammo the gun likes, and awareness of the scope parallax effect at the chosen target distance. Prior to buying the 1st Featherweight I read a number of horror stories regarding its quality/accuracy, etc. but went with the advice of a friend who swore by them, given proper break-in and sufficient # of rounds. My experience was consistent with his advice. Oh yeah, he told me I should practice too!

jvs · « **Reply #20 on:** October 26, 2004, 12:52:50 PM »

Maybe I was raised wrong.

When I first started hunting, I used a borrowed 12 gauge with rifled slugs. I didn't worry about who made it, I got to go hunting. I was taught it was enough to get the job done.

Then I had a borrowed .30/30, again I didn't worry about who made it. I was taught it was enough to go hunting. And I got to go hunting.

Whenever I bought a firearm for my own use, I bought caliber first, then I went looking for whatever make and model suited me. My first buy was a Marlin model 25 .22. When I wanted a small varmint caliber in the 1970's, I bought a Savage 340E .22 Hornet. When I wanted a .308 in the 1980's, I bought a Winchester M70 Featherweight. When I wanted a .30-06 in the 1990's, I bought a Marlin MR7 and a Remington BDL. Other times I bought whatever presented itself in private sales. Now my gun cabinet is ridiculously overstuffed. The only thing is, I can't bring myself to get rid of any of them either. But since I'm getting to the point every year where I debate with myself whether I want to do any more hunting, the time to sell out will surely come sooner than later. It's still fun, but alot less fun than it was 40 years ago. The days of shooting a deer at 9:30 am and getting back to my car at dusk are over.

Since some of my relatives landed with the Marines at Guadalcanal, others fought with the Army on the Korean Peninsula, and still another in Saigon for the '68 Tet Offensive, they always made sure I had enough to get the job done if I did my part or I'd get my butt kicked, after all, Vietnam was still hot and heavy when I came up.

I wasn't raised wrong, the world has turned a necesssity into a toy.

There isn't anything wrong with being faithful to a particular brand of anything, but unless you at least experienced the rest, you have no clue what you may have missed.

bchannell · « **Reply #21 on:** October 26, 2004, 01:49:00 PM »

I thought we were talking about "out of the box accuracy"??

I did forget about Sako/Tikka, Remmy is certainly no match for them.

By the way, here's a link to that old Winchester fwt, might wanna look close.
http://webpages.charter.net/bchannell/

Best of luck

Questor · « **Reply #22 on:** October 26, 2004, 02:01:31 PM »

I think it's a national pasttime to disparage the rifles we don't own.

Graybeard · « **Reply #23 on:** October 26, 2004, 04:31:44 PM »

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I think it's a national pasttime to disparage the rifles we don't own.

Dang I thought there was a federal law requiring it. :-D

Quote

By the way, here's a link to that old Winchester fwt, might wanna look close.

OK I looked. Fair to middling for a Winchester I suppose but no match for my LSS7-08 and it only wears a 2-7. I have a real honest to GOD hunting rifle and it's shooting smaller groups than yours set up to look like a varmint rifle. Your scope is bigger than my rifle and scope combined. :eek:

Questor · « **Reply #24 on:** October 27, 2004, 04:24:16 AM »

I'm fascinated by the accuracy fetish that focuses on the hairsplitting abilities of the rifle. Most of the guys I see at the shooting range are poor to mediocre shots, and most only shoot from the bench. It's time we simply accepted today's rifles as generally excellent (even-- argh, choke, gag-- Rrr Rrru...the ones I don't personally care for), and get to the range more so we can actually learn to shoot the things.

By the way, the Savages are really nice rifles. The new trigger is a great idea and I'm sure it will sell a lot of rifles for them. I notice that Ruger is now advertising a better trigger on some of their guns. It's about frigging time! The competition may be changing away from a contest to see who can make the heaviest and creepiest trigger.

The worst misconception out there is that a rifle is made to last a lifetime. It is if you don't shoot it much. If you shoot it the way it was meant to be used, you'll be replacing and fixing stuff regularly.

mountainview · « **Reply #25 on:** October 27, 2004, 06:19:10 AM »

Deciding which brand, in general, is most accurate is a lot like trying to decide how many angels can dance on the end of a pin. Precious few folks seem to factor in the ability of the bloke behind the buttplate as part of the equation.

I have a Rem 700 and several Savage rifles. Each one performs reliably and will shoot sub MOA with the right ammo. I have no doubt that other brands can do as well.

Questor · « **Reply #26 on:** October 27, 2004, 08:06:45 AM »

Hey mountainview, my man! Aliquid quo nihil maius cogitari posit!

Dancing on the head of a pin! Amen to that. We need more epistomology in our rifle discussions.

jvs · « **Reply #27 on:** October 27, 2004, 08:11:20 AM »

Quote from: mountainview

Deciding which brand, in general, is most accurate is a lot like trying to decide how many angels can dance on the end of a pin. Precious few folks seem to factor in the ability of the bloke behind the buttplate as part of the equation.

I have a Rem 700 and several Savage rifles. Each one performs reliably and will shoot sub MOA with the right ammo. I have no doubt that other brands can do as well.

H A L L A L U - YAH !

Graybeard · « **Reply #28 on:** October 27, 2004, 11:06:02 AM »

Quote

We need more epistomology in our rifle discussions.

SAY WHAT?? :eek: Man we got enough pissing and moaning already. :oh: :yeah: :-D

jvs · « **Reply #29 on:** October 27, 2004, 12:20:53 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard

Quote
We need more epistomology in our rifle discussions.

SAY WHAT?? :eek: Man we got enough pissing and moaning already. :oh: :yeah: :-D

There's wimmin in here

I hear that's why women have two sets of lips..........

So they can piss and moan at the same time.