Author Topic: How safe are little dogs in the big woods? (Read 1547 times)

Lancel · « **on:** September 18, 2004, 07:28:32 PM »

For those of you who hunt with smaller dogs such as terriers:

What concerns do you have that coyotes or some other critter might get them? What steps do you take to prevent it?

I've got a 10 pound cocker poodle mix who's got great potential to be a squirrel dog. But I'm concerned that in the deep woods, my buddy would become prey (from bigger predators) before I could save him.

What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Larry

RB Rooson · « **Reply #1 on:** September 19, 2004, 01:28:24 AM »

Larry,

When squirrel hunting you are usually in pretty close proximity to your dog - and with the noise (even limited) that a dog and human make in the woods, it is highly doubtful that anything is going to be stalking the two of you.

You and the dog work as a team, the dogs tree and turn the squirrel to the "flat-side" of the tree in order for you to get a shot; (now the tree is NOT flat - the squirrel 'flattens out' on the opposite side of the tree from the dog).

Go with some experienced squirrel dogs and hunters first. Take your dog with you - he or she will be watching what's going on and if they have an aptitude for squirrels, they will get the idea in a couple of hunts.

Can't say that it has never happened, but I have never personally witnessed a coyote attacking a dog just out of the blue while hunting. Usually they have taken off for the next county if the smell of man is anywhere around.....and if still concerned about it, remember there is safety in numbers (go with other squirrel hunters). This is very hard for me to write about as I just never even thought about it in my life.

I suppose that a Cougar/Puma could attack, and if they prey on a small dog or child - it is because they have wandered off from the group. This whole concept is so remote to me, that I do consider it to be neglible.

And finally, why not hunt in open woods for awhile where the line of sight is very good? Some oak forests are very open, well-spaced trees and lots of grass. Almost like a walk in the park.

I think we need some other hunters to jump in here.......

Airedale From NY · « **Reply #2 on:** September 21, 2004, 01:55:14 PM »

Here in NY I know of several instances where coyotes have attacked hounds. I have had them come into my coonhounds several times and harass them. Some guys have told me that when hunting with one dog that the coyotes have run them back to the truck. They get a big surprise when they come in to my dogs as I always run an Airedale with my hounds and the party is over in a hurry. I know of instances Snowshoe Hare hunter's Beagles getting chewed up pretty bad. I have also heard of of Great Horned Owls killing a fox so I suppose they could also do in a ten lb terrier.

Lancel · « **Reply #3 on:** September 21, 2004, 06:19:43 PM »

RB Rooson,
It's easy for me to underestimate intelligent animals. I've read of a coyote taking a small dog that it's owner was walking on a leash. Also, of a child or two being attacked in back yards. IRRC in those cases, the coyotes had adapted to areas with no hunting pressure.

Airedale,
You described some of the things I've thought about. I could see a peregrine falcon or hawk going after a little dog. Even if it was too heavy to lift, the talons would do a lot of damage.

Most likely I could call my dog back from a snake before damage was done. But it's unlikely this dog would run from a feral dog or coyote before the battle was on.

Still, I read of hunters that take their small dogs into the woods with no worries. I wonder if it's mostly a matter of staying in "civilized" small woods. For example, about 40 miles from me is a population of 19 Bald Eagles, probably not a good idea to take my dog into that area.

In any case, I look forward to more input.
Thanks,
Larry

freddogs · « **Reply #4 on:** September 22, 2004, 11:44:04 AM »

I thought about these things too. This year I put a bell on my Drathaar during grouse hunting because of the increase of Timber wolves up here in northern WI. I heard that some hound hunters where using bells. After our first walk I took it off when it became apparent that she wasn't going to go far from me. She's only a year old so I guess I'm overly protective. There were a lot of bear hunters out with their hounds but I didn't stop to talk to any of them.
I guess owls would make me nervous if my dog was that small. It's pretty seldom anything bothers a dog when you are with them.
A lot of hound hunters here run coyotes and fox. I'm not sure what hounds they use. Coyotes take small pets from rural farm houses around here but everyone is gunning for coyotes so they are spooky. I'd go out and make sure she sticks close.

RB Rooson · « **Reply #5 on:** September 22, 2004, 01:45:34 PM »

Hmmmm.....as an Owl is a noctural hunter, wouldn't you almost have to be out running around in the dark?

We have had stories here (Texas) of coyotes taking small dogs and cats in rural areas, but these are pets (?) left out at night. The Coyote is an opportunistic predator and will take whatever it comes across - but in the open; during the daylight hours; with a human nearby - that would be another story.

Most wild creatures give Man and Dog a very wide berth - that's why it is so difficult to call in a coyote (talking about "squeaking" here....); and track a fox; to run a lurcher; to stalk a deer......they all have instinctual survival intelligence that makes them wary of Man and his helper, the Dog.

The chances of your dog being attacked, without cornering or provoking a quarry has got to be less than 1% and I actually feel it is somewhere around .0001% (that would be 1 in 10,000 dogs in the field).....and that figure may be much greater, I just don't know. I have hunted terriers for 40 years and have never heard, or seen, or even know of anyone that it has happened to.

By the way, Freddogs - where in Wisconsin do you live? I was born in Beloit and lived in Lake Geneva up to 7 years ago. Did alot of coon, groundhog, rabbit and deer hunting in southern Wisconsin and northern Illinois - deer hunting and trout fishing in western Wisconsin - deer hunting and tons of lake fishing in northern Wisconsin.

Double D · « **Reply #6 on:** September 22, 2004, 03:41:41 PM »

Yep owls are mostly nocturnal but not always, just mostly.

I had a big owl in broad dayklight make several passes on my big Rat dog. That dog just loves to chase birds. When the Owl dived at him he jumped at the owl. When the owl made a second pass the dog got a hold of the owl....okay he got a mouth full of feathers. The Owl didn't like the idea that he might be lunch and left.

I don't know if dogs can smile but that dog sure looked like he was smiling after that.

When out calling coyotes I would take one of the dogs with me . The little black and swhite dog would wander around in plain sight. Coyotes who were normally very shy about crossing open stubble fields would come running. Coyotes will chase dogs and kill them if the can. The second they see a human, they disappear quick.

Hunted Coyotes with the Government traker down in Willcox AZ. He had a pair of greyhounds and a Weimaraner he used on coyotes. He would turn the dogs out oncoy9otes in the open cottom fields. The Coyote would make a beline for the Mesquite. As soon it hit the brush the coyote would turne one wayor the other. The grey hounds would continue in a straight line. After the greyhound passed the the coyote would pop back out and smack into the slower Weimaraner. Across open ground the greyhound would make quick work of a coyote.

Friend up in Idaho has a Jagd terrier he uses for denning. The dog will go out and bring the pups out.

lewdogg21 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 23, 2004, 06:06:43 AM »

A friend of my dads used to have a weiner dog who he used for a deer dog when hunting. One time I guess they came upon this buck and the lil dog actually ran up to the buck and jumped up and grabbed ahold of the buck. My dad's friend couldn't shoot b/c of fear of hitting his dog. Apparently the buck just stood there as the dog ran up and latched on. It was the funniest thing when you saw this lil dog. Sadly when he moved his dog and retriever took off one day and never came back. coyotes probably got the two of em.

Airedale From NY · « **Reply #8 on:** September 23, 2004, 01:22:19 PM »

The coyotes we have up this way are not the same as yours in the south west RB, they are about twice as big and are bold and cocky. I had a Great horned Owl kill guinea fowl here on the farm in daylight hours.

lewdogg21 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 29, 2004, 05:48:02 AM »

While talking to my mom yesterday she told me of a friend who found their dog outside on his run line with punctures in his side. They took him to the vet and the vet knew it was from a large hawk or owl. I guess the only thing that saved the little dog was that he was on a run leash so the bird couldn't leave with him. Apparently the local vet sees this a lot. My mother lives in Northern Michigan and this occured downstate. I imagine if I had a little dog I'd be really damn mad and want revenge.

myronman3 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 08, 2004, 05:08:04 PM »

well i would bet on your dog being safer than usual on account of the gun in your hands. it trumps predatory instinct every time. keep an eye on your friend and you ll both be fine. i used to take my rottweiler out with me, and i would have loved to see anything mess with her. i guarantee i would have seen to it she won. keep the dog with in sight and enjoy yourselves.

RB Rooson · « **Reply #11 on:** October 08, 2004, 05:37:21 PM »

myronman3,

By the way, I see that we have hunted over the same ground. Never in all my years in Wisconsin, did I ever have a dog attacked by a predatory animal.

Always kept my dog in sight (and I think I was always in her sight, too). Just not one of those things that I considered even a remote possibility.....

RB

Qaz · « **Reply #12 on:** November 17, 2004, 03:01:30 AM »

I tend to agree with RB, wild animals pose little threat that I have seen. But there is a big difference between a cocker-poodle and a Jag terrier or a hound in the woods as far as defending its self.
I wouldn't worry about it myself, but be aware that someones pet dogs or feral dogs may prey on your pet out there. As far as larger predators go always remember one thing; if a bear or lion come after your dog, he will run back to you. He will also leave you behind as he runs by you, leaving you to take care of the problem. :-)

Lancel · « **Reply #13 on:** November 17, 2004, 08:16:53 AM »

Qaz:

Quote

...leaving you to take care of the problem

I've also got a full blood poodle that likes to start a fight then run to stand behind me -- Evidently to admire my problem solving skills.

Larry

DirtyHarry · « **Reply #14 on:** November 17, 2004, 09:37:17 PM »

I once lost a Husky to Coyotes, actually it was the wifes dog, but now when I go hiking in the woods my two English Mastiff's are with me. With about 450 Lbs flanking me, nothing in this part of the country is of much concern to me......

Mikey · « **Reply #15 on:** December 01, 2004, 03:27:52 AM »

Lancel: interesting you say that about your Poodle. I've had big Standard Poodles for about the past 20 some odd years and every single one of them was a junkyard dog, fer shor. There is just something about a 95 lb Standard that doesn't like the word 'No' (lol). And these guys are nobody's pushovers, as you can expect. One of mine, my largest, ran down and choked a big male coyote. The yote wa sorta passin' through and didn't expect any trouble 'cause he didn't know about Jake and The Bear. Ol Jake hit that Yote at full bore and they both went flyin'. Jake got up, the yote didn't, for about 30 seconds after I called Jake off him. The Bear had the Yote by his hind leg and Ol Jake was at his throat. They musta thought he was dead beacuse they came when called. That Yote had problems walking when he got up.

Then there was my 92 lb Standard Eli (short for Elisha). He liked Turkeys and got himself one one day. The bird had attracted himself to his reflection in my picture window with the dogs just on the other side whining to go out and get'm. My wife thought it was funny to watch the bird go at his ow reflection, until I reminded her of the cost of the picture window and how uncomfortable the house would be if he busted through. She opended the door for the dogs. Now, Eli's younger brother Josh went hightailin' it right past the bird and the bird caught the movement and tried to back-flap away but smacked into a big pine tree I have nearby. That slowed him down just enough for Eli to get him by the neck, flip him and break the neck. It was incredibly funny watching the dog try to drag that bird back to the house because he head him by the neck but kept steppin' on the wings. Everybody ate well that night (lol), except for Tom (lol again).

Now, my yongest, an adopted guy from neu joisy is like yours. He will start pickin on Ol Josh until Josh nails him a time or two and then he will come and hide behind me - but, their tails are always wagging, even during confrontation, and they still sleep butt to butt, so it's prolly alright. Mikey.