Poll

17 hmr , or .22 mag

Total Members Voted: 28

Voting closed: September 07, 2004, 03:00:58 PM

Author Topic: Complete guide to tree rat hunting?  (Read 1512 times)

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Offline AndyC

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Complete guide to tree rat hunting?
« on: September 07, 2004, 03:00:58 PM »
Hello all! Im new to this site and hunting in general. My name is Andy Correll and Im 17 years old. Pretty soon I am going to be buying either a marlin 17 hmr , or marlin .22 mag. Which of these would be better suited for tree rat and rabbit hunting? I want to be able to eat what I shoot.
    I will be hunting with my good friend who owns a marlin .22 mag. Neither of us have hunted in our lives and neither of our fathers do either. But we would like to start tree rat and rabbit hunting. Does anybody know of a complete guide to tree rat hunting? Including how to skin and gut one? Thanks for any help. I really want to start hunting just need someplace to learn how...

Offline TScottO

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Complete guide to tree rat hunting?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2004, 03:42:40 PM »
If I were to choose between the two I would go with the 22 Magnum. However in my opinion a .22 short hollow point is the best for bushy tails.

Be Safe,
Scott

Offline scruffy

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Complete guide to tree rat hunting?
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2004, 05:27:53 PM »
I voted 22 mag, and yes I'm biased because that's what I use.  You can use 22 mag solids that'll do very little damage to the squirrel, but I usually use 22 mag JHP (winchester silver box).  They make a dime to nickle size exit hole and you don't have to worry about runners.  Also, the bullet holds together, no copper fragments getting into the meat.  An off shot and they still fall right away and don't go far.  I usually only eat the back legs so that's all I care about so I usually go for a quick chest shot.  Much larger target than the head.  The rest of the squirrel become my dog and cat food and gives them an hour or so of enjoyment trying to tear off the squirrels really strong hide to get to the meat.

I also use the new high velocity light weight 22 mag bullets (remington premeir 33 grain vmax, Win black box supreme 34 grain, CCI TNT 30 grain all at 2100+fps) on larger varmints like possums, skunks, and racoons around the farm and plan on using them for coyotes out to 100 yards.  I'm very impressed with the new 22 mag ammo.  My 223 is great over 100 yards but hard on pelts under 100 yards.  My 22 mag should be a good rifle to grab when I'm hunting thicker areas where 100 yard or less shots are all I'm going to get.  I wish I could report on it's performance on coyotes right now but last year the few time I took it I was skunked all but one time and flat out missed...

Anyway, the 17hmr only comes in explosive varmint rounds so far.  The new 20 grain ammo had me hoping but from what I've read the 20 grain ammo is less explosive but still too explosive for eating the meat.

I can't say I've seen either 17hrm bullet performance in person, but I have seen what the small 30 grain explosive 22 mag rounds do on a squirrel and it's carnage.  :eek:   Even head shots are hard to look at while you're skinning them out.  Blood everywhere....  No brains though, they're scattered over the ground.  I image the 17hmr is the same.  Carnage.  But that's what the 17hmr is for, varmint carnage right?

If you have to choose 17hrm or 22 mag, I choose 22 mag because of wider ammo selection at this time (who knows in 1 year to 5 years).  Between 22 mag and 22lr, if you're only after squirrel and rabbit, 22lr.  If you're like me and want 1 gun for small game up to close range preditors and other varmints, I'd get the 22 mag.  I put in alot of time with my 22mag and know it well.  I have 22lr's but use the 22 mag most of the time for small game for the trigger time, target time, hunting time, etc.  "Beware the man with one gun" they always used to say.

Oh, on skinning the legs, I cut the skin on the inside thigh area and cut a hole to the top and bottom of the thigh.  Then I peal the skin back and around the other side of the leg and pull it down past the"ankle".  Then I cut the tendons and such around the ankle and eventually gun my way threw the joint.  Then I cut the top of the leg muscle down to the hip socket and once the hip socket is cut to all the way around I give it a twist and tug, then cut off the remaining tendons and it's free.  Repeat on the other leg.  Then the rest becomes dog and cat food.  In the end nothing is wasted.

Again, if you're a "serious" squirrel hunter head shots are the goal.  I guess I'm not a "serious" squirrel hunter by those standards, but I don't waste anything either.  If you don't have some way to use all of the meat then you need to eat it.  There's nothing wrong with the rest of the meat, just alot more work for not much more meat IMHO.  So whatever you do, don't waste any of it.

Good luck and safe hunting!

Here's a pic of my nef 22 mag sportster -


Overkill for squirrels... but it's used for alot more than squirrels.  I have a thread in the nef rimfire forum with details on the rifle.

later,
scruffy
Hunting is 99% brain, 1% gun

Online Graybeard

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Complete guide to tree rat hunting?
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2004, 06:18:06 PM »
Unless you confine your shots to the head ONLY both rounds are unnecessarily damaging. You won't eat much if you make a body hit with either unless using the FMJ .22 Mag loads. I'd get a .22LR semiauto for what you are planning.

I started with a Winchester model 74 in .22 Short hunting squirrel and rabbits about 50 years ago now. I still see no need to use more than a .22LR on them. Since you're new to shooting and hunting you'll need LOTS of practice and that's where the .22LR comes in handy. It's cheap to shoot. The other two are too expensive to learn on.

There is an old book in my library called Small Game or some such. I think Bert Popowski or a name similar is the author. As good as any I've seen.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline 7magWoodsman

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Complete guide to tree rat hunting?
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2004, 05:27:14 AM »
I would not choose the .22mag or the .17hmr for small game...my personal opinion of these two cartridges is that they should be reserved for coyote and bob cat and such, not tree rats and rabbits.

I think you should get a good .22lr....preferably one that will also chamber .22 shorts. Just my .02  :money:

Stay Safe. Happy Hunting/Shooting.  :D
"To me the rifle has always been the most romantic of all weapons, and of all rifles, the one I love the most is the rifle for big game." Jack O'Connor

Offline scruffy

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Complete guide to tree rat hunting?
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2004, 09:51:13 AM »
If you wanted something quieter and tamer in your 22 mag pick up a box of Winchester 45 grain "dyna points" that are loaded to a much slower 1500fps, near 22lr velocities.  Kind of similar in performance to the CCI velocitor's for 22lr's, atleast on paper.

As a comparison the standard 22mag are 40 grain and loaded to 1900+fps and the new frangible 30 - 34 grain bullets are loaded to 2000 - 2200fps.  So the dynapoints are heavier and 21% - 32% slower than other 22 mag loads.

later,
scruffy
Hunting is 99% brain, 1% gun

Offline Lawdog

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Complete guide to tree rat hunting?
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2004, 10:54:58 AM »
AndyC,

Quote
I want to be able to eat what I shoot.


If you want to eat what you shoot then forget the .17 HMR completely.  The .22 WMR will do less damage if you use the heavier weight bullets available for the .22 magnum.  Lawdog
 :D
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline squirrel_hunter6

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Complete guide to tree rat hunting?
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2004, 06:32:23 AM »
:D  AndyC,

I started squirrel hunting when I was 17 as well. I went with one of my good friends from high school. I got hooked on it and I love to hunt those bushytails.

I wouldn't use a 17HMR or a 22mag for squirrel hunting. They are too expensive and way more than you will ever need for a squirrel. My squirrel hunting gun is a Marlin Model 60 with a 4x32 Tasco scope. It is perfect squirrel medicine. I practiced a lot with it. I always try to shoot squirrels in the head to minimize meat damage. I would practice shooting dime size targets at about 50 yards behind my house. A dime is about the same size as a squirrels head.  Buy some cheap solid point bulk ammo and practice as much a possible. Practice from different positions like, sitting and standing and use a good tree for a rest if you can. I'm 22 now and I still love to squirrel hunt.

Here is my method for cleaning a squirrel:

1) Cut off head, tail, and feet.

2) Make a slit in the middle of the back that is big enough to two fingers in.

3) Place your fingers in the slit and pull skin from middle outwards until it comes off. On an old squirrel this can be a little tough.

4) Now that the skin is removed, slice through the thin muscle from the base of abdomen all the way to the neck. As you are slicing cut through the ribs. While doing this be careful not to cut the guts to much.

5) Start pulling the guts from the esophagus down to the intestines.

6) Wash the squirrel with water and place in freezer or eat fresh! YUM :grin:

I bet that this will be a good book when it comes out.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592285872/qid=1094745580/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-5134075-6144139?v=glance&s=books

Good luck, have fun, and most of all be safe!  8)
Squirrels are my game but, Jesus is my LIFE!   8)

Offline CPTLEO

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squirrel gun
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2004, 04:42:24 PM »
The absoloute best I have ever had

Winchester .22 short gallery  gun  (tube fed pump)

weaver scope with 2" dot

Put the dot on his head and squeeze

Second advantage is very little noise

Hate to admit it but I have shot at the same tree rat 8-9 times

Try that with a 22 MAG

I now use a .40 cal muzzleloader  it is a little more exciting

When you shoot  you have to listen for the thud  cuz you can't see em

Offline o2bhvnbnd

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Complete guide to tree rat hunting?
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2004, 06:55:55 AM »
Here is a link to a MO Dept of Conservation page that shows how to skin a squirrel.
http://www.conservation.state.mo.us/hunt/smgame/squirrel/
I would also get a 22 lr rifle.  Cheap to shoot, so means you can get a lot of practice and I would say the vast major of squirrel hunters use either a 22 lr or shotgun.  Use subsonic 22 ammo when you hunt, it is a little quieter than regular ammo.

Brian

Offline DanielWGriggs

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Complete guide to tree rat hunting?
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2004, 01:29:19 PM »
Skinning Squirrel Video Mr squacks one of the rabid squirrel hunters from marlinowners.com has a video. Time it. Bolt action from RFC showed us how to do the same skinning method with a pair of game shears. I used to take about 10 minutes now about a minute and a half.  http://members.localnet.com/~nickdd/  This is a link for the video if ya like it come over to MO.com and see the 56+ pages of squirrel hunting information and meet some new friends.

Offline Joe44

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AndyC
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2004, 12:34:52 PM »
I voted 22mag, but I would pick up a ruger 10/22. I love small game hunting, more than big game hunting. There aren't any decent sized squirrels around here, but I hunt cottontails alot. With the 10/22, ammo is cheap, semi helps me with running shots {I don't normally take them though} and as an added bonus, the 10/22 will feed CB longs from the magazine, you just have to manually cycle the bolt. Hunting with CB's is nice, see a rabbit, shoulder rifle, squeeze trigger, and puff....the rabbit falls over. I use them when my little girl and I go rabbit hunting.  But then the normal 22's aren't very loud either, a buddy of mine that I hunt with shoots a marlin 22 mag that he has done alot of work on, to me it seems loud, and he just tears up rabbits {i've seen him almost cut them in half with one shot}.

Joe

P.S. I found out the other night that the really cheap marlin semi with the tube magazine will feed CB's also. I think I'll see if I can lighten the action so that I'll have a semi 22 CB shooter!

Offline kimber45fan

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Complete guide to tree rat hunting?
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2004, 11:05:04 AM »
I LOVE to squirrel hunt..with my old Ruger MkII or :shock:  Buckmark pistol 22lr..plenty good...17 and 22 mag..well they just too much for what I need..I also like to take my old Winchester  single shot bolt action 22 lr squirrel hunting or rabbit hunting. I grew up hunting with a single shot bolt action JC Higgins 22 lr..one shot one kill..

Offline Gregory

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Complete guide to tree rat hunting?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2004, 01:54:46 PM »
Quote from: scruffy
If you wanted something quieter and tamer in your 22 mag pick up a box of Winchester 45 grain "dyna points" that are loaded to a much slower 1500fps, near 22lr velocities.  Kind of similar in performance to the CCI velocitor's for 22lr's, atleast on paper.

As a comparison the standard 22mag are 40 grain and loaded to 1900+fps and the new frangible 30 - 34 grain bullets are loaded to 2000 - 2200fps.  So the dynapoints are heavier and 21% - 32% slower than other 22 mag loads.

later,
scruffy


Here are my chronograph readings on 22 Mag fired from my TC Contender both 10" and 16" barrels:
                10"BBl   16"Bbl
WW JHP   1742   1793
WWFMJ   1551   1618
Dynapoint   1359   1412

I agree for rabbits and squirrels a 22LR is your best choice, you'll spend more time plinking and practicing.  You can get 550 rounds of Federal  22LR bulk ammo at WMart for $10 and you'd be lucky to get 100 rounds of 22 Mag for that price.
Greg

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