Author Topic: What are you using for projectiles for cannon/mortar?? (Read 2817 times)

Blaster · « **on:** September 04, 2004, 03:14:44 PM »

I'd like to start a little survey on just what everyone out here is using for projectiles for their BP cannon and mortar firing. Nothing complicated needed, just:
1. What is the shape of the projectile,
2. What material/materials does it consist of,
3. Size of the projectile,
4. Is it fired from a mortar or cannon,
5. Any other information that will help everyone to understand and get
some ideas as to what the rest of the folks out here are shooting.
I'm sure everyone on this forum will be interested in this information and perhaps will be able to try something new to them.
Many thanks for your time and help! Blaster (Bob in Colorado)

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #1 on:** September 04, 2004, 03:26:53 PM »

By caliber, all fired by mortars:

Golf-ball caliber: golf balls, usually Top Flight's

Old beer-can caliber: Current soup cans, filled with cement or sand.

Current beer-can caliber: beer/soda cans, filled with cement or sand.

16-20-24oz soda-pop caliber: one or two filled with cement

4" pvc pipe caliber: section filled with sack-crete (7.5 lbs) pvc pipe

upcoming: film-cannister caliber (Fuji) - will probably fill with cement.

Double D · « **Reply #2 on:** September 04, 2004, 04:21:11 PM »

Left: 6 pdr round zinc for current under construction Mortar project about 3.67 inch.

Right: 1 inch round lead for 1/6 scale 1804 Boat Howitzer.

I also have a 1 inch cylinderical lead slug that I used my the old Parrot rifle. The current Parrot rifle is under construction.

Trigger Mortise · « **Reply #3 on:** September 07, 2004, 04:59:47 AM »

1 diameter lead ball from my cast iron cannon, and 5/8 leads balls from the two small naval brass cannons. Boring I know, but like to stay traditional, however, sometimes I use balls made from babbitt.
The 1 bore cannon I have owned for a good 25 years and the two brass cannons I just completed.
DD, if you dont mind me asking, what type of mold are you using for the 1 balls and do you use a patch, if so, what is the thickness of the patching material?
Al.

Double D · « **Reply #4 on:** September 07, 2004, 07:03:09 AM »

No patch for Cannons!

Patching above about 3/4 inch is just asking for trouble. Not a big deal for small projectiles with less mass, but when you start dealing with projectile of the mass shoot in cannons you run into problems. Patching can and does build excessive and dangerous pressures, very quickly. Do not do it!

Cannon projectiles should have windage. That is roughly defined as 1/40 of the bore diameter. For a 1.00 inch cannon you projectile should be no larger than .975

You should be able to unload the projectile from your loaded cannon by tilting the muzzle down and the projectile should roll or slide out.

Double D · « **Reply #5 on:** September 07, 2004, 07:22:05 AM »

The 1 inch round ball mould I bought from a fellow here on Graybeards. When received the mould was a beautifully made aluminum mould with inner cavities that didn't align. I returned it to him and he fixed the mould so the inner cavity aligned but the outside are misaligned. Cast a nice ball how ever.

The cylinderical mould, I made.

John N · « **Reply #6 on:** September 08, 2004, 02:42:50 AM »

For my .50 caliber BP cannon, I tried some .45 ACP shell casings picked up off the ground at the local range (thus unsuitable for reloading - only use fresh brass or known history brass to reload!), filled it with some #8 shot, topped it with some silicon sealer, and loaded it with a small patch. Works great. I know .490 round ball is cheap and probably a far better round, but it's fun experimenting with other "reasonable" alternatives. As always. start with a low powder charge and work your way up. By the way, I can usually hit a 2'x3' cardboard target with these pellet filled .45 caliber cases at a 100 feet with surprisingly little key-holing.

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #7 on:** September 09, 2004, 08:20:10 AM »

1" (0.996) ball from wheel weights, 1,400 grains, over 1/2 Oz of FG powder in me 1/3 scale 6 pounder

John N · « **Reply #8 on:** September 09, 2004, 10:34:08 AM »

Calamity Jane,

Awesome! How far does your cannon recoil backwards with that load?

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #9 on:** September 10, 2004, 12:32:08 AM »

On grass, it backs up about a foot and a half on level ground. On concrete, ya gotta go get it from the parking lot !! :shock: :mrgreen:

Blaster · « **Reply #10 on:** September 15, 2004, 02:38:55 PM »

Wow, the responses that were posted were great however it looks like I just may have asked about something that may be considered a very personal secret. Surely there are more cannon/mortar shooters out here who really wouldn't mind sharing the requested information on the projectiles they shoot. Hope I didn't offend anyone by asking the folks out there, information on what projectiles they are shooting: size, shape, weight and composition... :oops: Blaster (Bob in CO)

jimirwin · « **Reply #11 on:** September 15, 2004, 03:59:26 PM »

I am new to this list and glad to have found it.

I earned the nickname "Cannonball" for being a successful California and Oregon shooter.

My target gun is a 40mm "Whitworth" I made from poor drawings in an old CW artillery pub in 1966. Shoots a 1 lb minie ball from a mould I made. Charge is right at 450 grs (one Kodak 35mm film cannister full) GOEX cannon powder or 1fg.

My fun gun is a bowling ball mortar I made in about 1999. Uses two increments as above to hit 550 yds range at 60 deg elevation (15 lb ball).

Also have a 2 in bore Coehorn mortar I made in about 1966, but never fire. No mould for this one.

Also have a 1 1/8 in bore smoothbore Revolutionary period barrel I traded for from Erwin Brothers Antiques in Dallas way back in about 1960 (They supplied Dixie Gun Works back then) Used to shoot it a lot. Have a round ball mould I made back them. My first powder I bought from Jackson Arms in Dallas for $1.25 a pound. Then I got economical and bought a 25 lb keg from Dixie (DuPont blasting powder) for $11.50 plus a couple dollars for freight.

Glad to be here!

Cannonball

Double D · « **Reply #12 on:** September 15, 2004, 06:27:13 PM »

Cannonball,

Welcome!

Ever shoot at the Josephine Co. Sportsmens Club? They use to have a big Cannnon shoot every Labor day.

Use to be acquainted with a fellow in Central Valley CA. who had a Withworth and a few other interesting pieces.

Do you have any pictures to post.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #13 on:** September 16, 2004, 12:54:12 AM »

Quote from: jimirwin

I am new to this list and glad to have found it. ....

We're glad you're here too. Please share your expertise and experiences.

Blaster · « **Reply #14 on:** September 16, 2004, 03:47:25 AM »

Hi Cannonball (jimirwin): Sure glad to have you join this forum. It has a great bunch of folks who share some real interesting information. Hope you'll be on here a lot. Also, sounds like you have some very interesting shooting stuff so hope your show us some pictures etc. at your earliest chance. Blaster (Bob in CO)

Lyle · « **Reply #15 on:** September 19, 2004, 09:51:22 AM »

I use plain concrete for mortar balls..cast one day take out the next..no failures in over 2 years of shooting. Age them for at least a month. Some are several years old now and have been fired at least 6 times. 5" bore mortar.
For west coast people..there is a good shoot Memorial Day and Labor Day week end on a ranch 25 miles east of LaPine, Oregon. Put on by Northwest Territory Light Artillery Volunteers. Usually 20-25 guns ranging from full size to 1/4 scale.

Lyle

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #16 on:** September 19, 2004, 10:17:00 AM »

Lyle -

I'd love to see the mould and pics of the concrete cannon balls.

How fine was the agregate in the concrete? Any particular brand of 'sack-crete' or ratios of cement-sand-agregate? Fiberglass reinforcement or just plain concrete?

My concern is from pieces flying off - sometimes happens after multiple firings of pvc pipe.

Lyle · « **Reply #17 on:** September 19, 2004, 01:44:17 PM »

Have pictures but don't know how to post them here. I can send them to you at a regular email address if you'd like that. If you want to post them here that would be ok.
The mould is a two piece aluminum casting..has guide pins and bolts together. Not a real fast operation.
Mix is regular sak crete. About the same consistency as cake batter..rod it good and then turn it upside down and give it a couple of good taps to get the fines to the outside of the mould.
Use way oil for release..concrete will stick to bare aluminum very well so have to be oiled or greased.

Lyle

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #18 on:** September 19, 2004, 02:18:02 PM »

Lyle -

Thanks for the description. Way oil? You must be a machinst or at least knowledgeable of it.

Two choices on posting the pix. There are a number of free (and paid) picture hosting sites. I use http://www.hunt101.com/ because it's free.

So, you can post them (see our instructions at the start of the forum) or if you email them to me, I can. covbldrsNOSPAM@nrvi.net (remove the NOSPAM of course).

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #19 on:** September 20, 2004, 03:36:25 PM »

Well, Hunt101 is down (no uploads) for the time being to upgrade hardware. But I have one picture from Lyle that I'd be happy to send. Impressive looking CONCRETE cannon balls and mortar.

Kansas Boomer · « **Reply #20 on:** October 06, 2004, 03:34:30 PM »

I shoot 1" steel balls in my bp cannon. Get them in 25 packs from Enco. Have no idea what they weigh, my scale only goes to 500gr. The bore of my cannon is slightly over 1". 250gr. of triple 7 will shoot them clean through an old car, trunk to hood. I have read on here, not to patch a cannon. But the only way I can get any accuracy is to use a denim patch. Boomer

Will Bison · « **Reply #21 on:** October 06, 2004, 04:48:40 PM »

1. Round ball
2. Lead
3. 1 7/8 inches 20 ounces
4. Cannon, rifled, 47 m/m

I use from 2-5 ounces of BP behind it. With 5 ounces it goes away real fast.

This is the mould I had made by my machinist. As you can see the mould/metal are not up to proper temp yet. The ball comes out within .005 of true round. I just put a "C" clamp on it to cast.

Double D · « **Reply #22 on:** October 07, 2004, 01:30:48 PM »

Kansas Boomer,

Do you need a patch for black powder or just for Triple 7.

Be very careful using solid steel balls with a patch, it would be very easy to wedge a ball in the bore. If you wedged a ball off the powder charge and left an air space you could be making a bomb and not a cannon.

The folks at the N-SSA are prohibited by rule from using patched balls and they are getting superb accuracy.

Cannon internal ballistics are not the same as black powder rifle ballistics.

Kansas Boomer · « **Reply #23 on:** October 08, 2004, 11:05:02 AM »

Double D

Thanks for the info. I use a patch with 777or Pyrodex. I think the problem lies with the barrel diameter. It is not a true 1" bore, I wish it was. The barrel is a piece of oil well plunger, whatever that is. I got it from an oil field service company. It is 2" OD. My machinist plugged it, and shrunk it into a piece of 3" OD, DOM tubing. It is quite stout. As close as I can measure, the bore is actually 1.18". A 1" ball with no patch, leaves a lot of room. I can buy 1 1/16", or 1 1/8" balls, but they are almost twice as expensive as 1". Did you say that the ball should roll out of the bore if the cannon was depressed? I always strive for safety, so if you have any other suggestions, please let me know. Boomer

Double D · « **Reply #24 on:** October 08, 2004, 11:51:45 AM »

Excerpt from: THE MORE COMPLETE CANNONEER compiled Agreeably to the Regulations of the War Department as published in "Artillery Drill" by George Patten, 1861 and Containing Other Observations on Antique Cannon By M.C. Switlik with selected excerpts from other artillery manuals

Windage

In preparing balls for smoothbore guns it is well to recall the standard which were once required for the difference between true bore diameter and the maximum ball diameter allowed for that caliber. The term windage is applied to this difference, and one common rule stated that windage should be one-fortieth the diameter of the bore. By this same rule, a 10 inch smooth bore would fire a ball ¼ inch smaller than the bore, and a two inch bore smooth bore would fire a ball .050 smaller than the bore.

Blaster · « **Reply #25 on:** October 08, 2004, 12:23:58 PM »

Calamity Jane, I'm sorry that I never did tell you how impressive the photo is of your 1/3 scale 6 pounder. It's the post you made on Sept 9th. That column of fire is something else. Who ever was operating the camera to get the shot was really on the ball. Were you the one snapping the photo??

Thanks....Blaster (Bob in CO)

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #26 on:** October 21, 2004, 03:38:16 PM »

What do I shoot? 4" pvc pipe (4.5" OD) filled with concrete. From 3.5 to 7.5 pounds depending on length.

First pix is of 100 yard hits on (PRIVATE) gravel road. Other is in a field - range of about 200-300 yards.

THANKS to HUNT101 for posting!

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #27 on:** October 23, 2004, 01:49:24 AM »

Blaster: T'ain't me! I'm on the end of the lanyard, just out of the picture to the left.

The young feller who took the picture was unbelievably lucky! There was a professional video company filmed my night shoot that day. Then next day the fellow from the video company said he had looked at the tape and only one frame showed flame - that means it lasted for less than 1/60th of a second!

JMinNM · « **Reply #28 on:** October 28, 2004, 11:57:40 AM »

blaster just sent you a post on another subject anyway here goes on projectiles. I am trying out three ideas. I am trying to make a projectile that will fly nose first, be fairly accurate, be easy to make and be CHEAP. #1 is a moulded rounded lead nose section (about 3 lb) center drilled and lag bolted to a 2" oak sabot with appropriate windage. #2 same nose section but cast with a tin can in the mould, then about 3" of grout (or concrete) is placed in the can. The rest of the space is taken up by an oak sabot. #3 Ore crushing balls of about 3.25 are placed on an oak sabot that has been "cupped" to match the ball and held in place by strips of thin sheet metal attached to sabot by small screws. Bore size of my howitzer is just under 3.5" I use 5 to 6 oz Goex pdr.
JM

Blaster · « **Reply #29 on:** October 28, 2004, 12:57:32 PM »

JMinNM....sounds very interesting and I just responded to your other post a couple minutes ago....... I sure hope you post some pictures of your recent build/builds and the projectiles. Pictures are sure appreciated on this forum. For my one inch bore, on someones suggestion, had bought a few of the copper caps that are usually soldered on to copper pipe. These are just a perfect fit for my one inchers. However, when filled with molten lead and the cooling process starts, the lead shrinks enough so that it now drops out of the copper fitting like it's dropping from a casting mould. Now, I have drilled two small holes on the cap sides so that when filling with molten lead, it'll leak just enough lead through the holes to hold the remaining lead in. I'll have to fire up the melting pot to see how it really works. Blaster (Bob in CO)