Shot placement- Whitetail Deer

[goose7856]

yes, but the Nosler Partitions, for factory loads, do not get the extra fps I am looking for.

[Mac11700]

Why worry about  gaining a few feet per second faster.....your question was this..

Hi,

I know that most of the vitals on a deer are located on the front portion of the deer's body, and that most people shoot right behind the shoulder. I do not want to be unethical, or cause the deer to suffer. I shoot a high caliber (30-06) and about the longest shot would be 250 yards (I haven't shot one over 115 yards). I always watch TV, and the people shoot behind the shoulder, the deer jumps and kicks, etc. However, my uncle, whom brings me hunting likes me to shoot them in the front shoulder. It literally just blows it into pieces, and the deer drops straight down. I hunt in Louisiana, and it is about as dense woods as possible. They have 10 ft. Palmetto's, trees, shrubs, etc. If you should a deer, and it runs into the woods your chances decrease dramatically of finding the animal. You can try by yourself but it always happens that you have the get everyone at the camp involved to help find your deer. Please give me your input on this subject.

I'm not really sure what your trying to gain...the Noslers will preform as expected...so too will the Swifts and also the Barnes bullets...Federal loads all of them...if your wanting Magnum velocities for your 30-06...get a Magnum...a better way to approach your problem....would be to worry more about bullet placement and performance than  what little your going to gain with  the extra 100 fps from the light mags...what good will it do if you or your rifle doesn't shoot them very well...if they do shoot good for you then by all means use them..but getting a deer to drop in it's tracks at 250 yards isn't the easiest thing in the world to do...I'm not a big fan of wasting the complete shoulder of a deer and this  however is what your uncle does

It literally just blows it into pieces

I don't have a problem tracking thru thick vegitation or swampy areas when I shoot them the way I decribed to you in my previous post...the blood trail is more than adequate when I even need to use it...they generally fall within a few yards and I can see them go down.


Good Luck and I hope you find what your looking for.

Mac

[goose7856]

they generally fall within a few yards and I can see them go down

I see what you are saying, but that is not the case in my area.  If they go in the woods, you will not see them go down.  I don't care if they are 1 foot inside the woodline, you will not be able to see them.  The one time I did shoot behind the shoulder (it was right before dark, so I made a different shot (i dont know why)) the doe (120 lb.) ran 100 yards, into the "light" covered part of the woods, which is partially cleared out.  It took us about 25 min. to drag a 120 lb. deer out with 2 people!!  Think about what happens if you shot a 300 lb deer and it runs just 50 yards??!!  It will take 6 people to drag the thing out!!?? Thats why I want the knock down power.  I just want a few fps, for the longer shots, even though it is not necessary.

If the deer walks out at 250 yards, I will not be making a shoulder shot on it, I will shoot for a double lung shot/heart shot.  But if it walks from about 0-150 yards, I will shoot it right into the front leg, dropping it in its tracks.  I want a bullet that can do both as I just described.  Is this possible??  

I also know a man that has just started reloading.  He has some of my bullets, and was going to reload them for me.  I know absolutely nothing about reloading, but I know there is a recommended grain amount to use.  somewheres around 55-59, right (30-06)??  I do not know how many grains are being used in factory loads, but couldn't I get him to load some "MAX" loads??  He could put the MAX amount of gunpowder, and I could choose the type of bullet for him to use?  Wouldnt this allow me to get the extra fps, but still retain bullet weight at close ranges (yet still be able to make longer shots with less "hold over")??

Just my thoughts.........thanx ahead!!

[leverfan]

I also know a man that has just started reloading.  He has some of my bullets, and was going to reload them for me.  I know absolutely nothing about reloading, but I know there is a recommended grain amount to use.  somewheres around 55-59, right (30-06)??  I do not know how many grains are being used in factory loads, but couldn't I get him to load some "MAX" loads??  He could put the MAX amount of gunpowder, and I could choose the type of bullet for him to use?  Wouldnt this allow me to get the extra fps, but still retain bullet weight at close ranges (yet still be able to make longer shots with less "hold over")??

Just my thoughts.........thanx ahead!!

This part of your post set off so many alarm bells, it's hard to know where to start.  Your friend may be a very careful fellow, but he's a novice reloader, and you shouldn't have him loading for you.  As you said in your post, "I know absolutely nothing about reloading," so you won't even be able to catch his mistakes.  The recommended load may be, "somewheres around 55-59" grains of powder, depending on what powder your round is being reloaded with.  There are dozens of powders that work well in the 30-06 case, a tribute to its design.  As for, "He could put in the MAX amount of gunpowder, and I could choose the type of bullet for him to use," if your reloading friend agrees to this approach, he's too ignorant of reloading safety to be going near a reloading press.  What's "MAX" for a powder charge in a reloading manual may actually be a dangerous overload with your own components.  Every brand, type, and individual production lot of primers, brass, powder, and bullets varies, and if you combine them without any regard for that, you'll find trouble.

I don't mean to flame you with this post, but reading yours really scared the hell out of me.  PLEASE stick to using factory ammo for now.  When you get the chance, buy copies of new reloading manuals, and read through them, paying particular attention to the parts that deal with pressure and safety.  All of my concerns will become very clear to you, and you'll understand your rifle and cartridges much better, even if you never get around to reloading.  

Tell your friend, as a friendly warning, that he could easily get sued for everything he's got, and then a drop, if he starts passing his reloads around to his shooting buddies.  If anything goes wrong, and someone gets hurt, the reloader will be blamed.  After all, much of the evidence will be scattered all over, so even if it was a gun/shooter problem, the courts may not see it that way.  What if someone with a cleaning patch still in the barrel fires one of his loads?  The gun goes boom, the patch is blown to kingdom come, but the novice reloader takes all the blame.  

Books have been written just to cover all of the safety concerns raised by reloading, and I haven't even scratched the surface here.  It's safer than most things a person can do, if you do it right, but you must know what you're doing.

[Mac11700]

Very true Leverfan...


Goose...having the " Knockdown" power in your cartridge...doesn't mean the deer will drop in it's tracks...I've seen wounded deer dragging a broken leg before...well after someone shot them...if your hunting are is this bad..were you can't follow a blood trail for a few yards...or even want to...I really wouldn't make that my primary hunting area.I do know of a few places out in Washington state and Oregon that the under growth and blow downs make it almost impossible to find you deer....but if you've place your bullet correctly...you'll have a blood trail even a blind man can follow.


Like I said before....bullet placement and bullet construction..should be your primary concern.Will a Nosler Partition hold together on a full-on shoulder shot at 0-150 yards...yes they will...same for the A-Frames,CT partitions,and the new Barnes X bullets....their design also will penatrate better than most other type bullets...


 I didn't want to bring this back up but it looks like you want this type of shot...The only way you'll kill a deer on the spot  is to disrupt it's Central Nevous system enough...a spine/neck shot gennerally will do this... But...you and your rifle must be up to shooting extreamly well....and you had better be or you just wounded a deer....Now if you want to take out both shoulders of the deer then you really need a premium bullet to make it all the way thru both at 250 yards....but I wonder...if your taking a 250 yard shot...just how thick is the stuff your really hunting in? You said

I see what you are saying, but that is not the case in my area. If they go in the woods, you will not see them go down. I don't care if they are 1 foot inside the woodline, you will not be able to see them. The one time I did shoot behind the shoulder (it was right before dark, so I made a different shot (i dont know why)) the doe (120 lb.) ran 100 yards, into the "light" covered part of the woods, which is partially cleared out. It took us about 25 min. to drag a 120 lb. deer out with 2 people!! Think about what happens if you shot a 300 lb deer and it runs just 50 yards??!! It will take 6 people to drag the thing out!!?? Thats why I want the knock down power. I just want a few fps, for the longer shots, even though it is not necessary.

If it is that thick of cover...you shouldn't be shooting at them...wait till they are in a more open area to take your shot...if the cover is also that thick that you can't truely see them...what else is in there??? This sounds like a dangerous way of shooting to me.........

Also you have a different perspective on the end results of Hunting my young friend...

The one time I did shoot behind the shoulder (it was right before dark, so I made a different shot (i dont know why)) the doe (120 lb.) ran 100 yards, into the "light" covered part of the woods, which is partially cleared out. It took us about 25 min. to drag a 120 lb. deer out with 2 people!

While this may seem like a-lot of work to a novice...I've been in worse situations when having to drag a 200lb field dress deer out for over a mile and 1/2 by myself...nothing in this life is truely free...we all have to work to do after the shot...and sometimes it isn't any "fun" at all.....BUT if your going to squeeze the trigger...you have to finish what you started...


Taking a shot at the end of  the day when the light to see your animal is failing...is always an iffy shot at best...couple that with a less than ideal hunting area...your lucky you found the deer.

These should be lessons for you to learn by...and I hope you do learn....we all learn(or at least should learn) something new each time we go hunting...

Mac

edited12:45

[goose7856]

If it is that thick of cover...you shouldn't be shooting at them...wait till they are in a more open area to take your shot...if the cover is also that thick that you can't truely see them...what else is in there??? This sounds like a dangerous way of shooting to me.........

You misunderstood me, or maybe I just didn't explain myself.  I was referring to after the shot has been taken, and/if the deer ran off.  I hunt on food plots in Louisiana.  

Now if you want to take out both shoulders of the deer then you really need a premium bullet to make it all the way thru both at 250 yards

Again I did not explain my thoughts...........I only want to take out the shoulder/shoulderS if the deer is close, and the bullet has plenty of Energy.  If I take a longer shot it will be a double lung shot, NO DOUBT.

While this may seem like a-lot of work to a novice...I've been in worse situations when having to drag a 200lb field dress deer out for over a mile and 1/2 by myself...nothing in this life is truely free...we all have to work to do after the shot...and sometimes it isn't any "fun" at all.....BUT if your going to squeeze the trigger...you have to finish what you started...

I agree with the responsibility........I was just trying to show you how difficult it is to find a deer that has been shot in our woods.  Another example, is when I shot my second deer ever.  I shot it at about 65 yards.  There was blood everywhere, from the impact point.  I'm talking a 4 yard ring around where the deer was standing (full of just blood droplets).  But it took 4 or 5 people to finally find the deer.  we searched around in the woods about 50 yards in, for about 35 min. and could find a little blood here are there, but then we happened to just find it.  It was very hard to track.  With 5 people you would expect to find a deer very quickly.  

If the deer is hit well, it will not go more than 75 yards in our woods.  It is just impossible.  It has to take so much effort just to knock down a few of the 8 foot tall palmetto branches, that it tires itself out, (not forgetting about only having 3 legs, and a hole in both lungs).  If it takes that much energy for a DEER to go through, then humans are even more inadequate.  You have to crawl on your stomach, and duck below branches, etc.  I am not trying to exaggerate.  It is not like in Texas where you can just walk around a bush, you have to go through everything.  This is why knocking the deer down right on the spot is so important.  

Taking a shot at the end of the day when the light to see your animal is failing...is always an iffy shot at best...couple that with a less than ideal hunting area...your lucky you found the deer.

Actually, most of the deer that are killed, are killed right before dark, so the entire hunting camp gets "Q-BEAMS" and we have to go search for the deer, we have only lost 1 deer, b/c the guy shot a 145 lb. doe with a ballistic tip, and left no blood trail at all!!  He said he knocked it down, but it got up, ran off, and he heard it crash, but we could never find it.

Like I said before....bullet placement and bullet construction..should be your primary concern.Will a Nosler Partition hold together on a full-on shoulder shot at 0-150 yards...yes they will...same for the A-Frames,CT partitions,and the new Barnes X bullets....their design also will penatrate better than most other type bullets...

So are you saying the new Interbond, by Hornady would not be able hold up??  Just asking.......

Thanx for the help.......please give me your knowledge on the rest of my ?'s.........thanx!!

[Longcruise]

So are you saying the new Interbond, by Hornady would not be able hold up?? Just asking.......

In the article I read comparing the interbond and the accubond as well as several other bonded bullets, the interbond held up better than the accubond :shock:

I've never been a fan of Hornady bullets for big game hunting, but the interbonds might get a try out on deer this year.  Not sure I'm ready to throw them at elk though :-)

[Mac11700]

All this is kinda redundant now isn't it.
 
First off...do I think a highly of the Hornady interlocks as say Noslers partitions or eith of the Swifts ...no defiantly not...do I think they would be the answer to your original question...personally no..I don't think they would...
 
 
Secondly...while you've given a better description of your hunting area...and a very vivid description of one of your tracking jobs...leads me to ask why you would continue to hunt that paticular  one...I'm assuming(and I really hate to do that)that the deer are numerous there and provides you a better opportunity than some of the other places you hunt...correct??? Than might I suggest another approach to you situation...scout out other areas where the vegetation isn't as thick...and if this isn't possible...set a ground blind or if possible a pit blind closer to the food plots...400 yards is a heck of a long way to shoot ,but since your getting closer shots..that point isn't realavent...
 
Thirdly...taking any deer thru both shoulders will ruin more meat than one should...unless your strickley rack hunting and don't care...if this is the case..to me this is totally unethical...there are way to many people who could benefit from those shoulders you ruined...as you should be able to tell...I'm a big fan of donating meat to those who need it...and the old saying of "Waste not...Want not " fills the bill here.
 
Fourth...there is no easy solution in hunting...we all try to make the best shot and not cause anymore suffering than possible on the deer...if this requires us to pass up shots...so be it...if the area isn't assessable to hunt without the likely probability of losing an animal...we generally will hunt some other place and give that location a some what of a sanctuary status...because we know that it will pay off if we can hunt around it...even whitetails have to have a safe haven to mature and breed...
 
All of this brings us back to the beginning here...and that is...what bullet will hold together up close to penetrate the shoulder/s of a deer and still readily expand at 400 yards...in a factory load...since you don't reload...take a look at this...
 
Index No.   Cartridge Type   Wt. (grs)   Bullet Style   Primer No.   Ballistic Coefficient
PRSC3006C   Premier Scirocco Bonded   150   Swift™ Scirocco™ Bonded   9 1/2   0.435            Premier Scirocco Bonded
 
 
VELOCITY (ft/sec)
 
muzzle.... 100...... 200......300.....400.....500
  2910......2926......2492.... 2298... 2111....1934
 
LONG-RANGE² TRAJECTORY*
 
                                   100   150   200   250   300   400   500
 
                                    1.6    1.5    zero    -2.9   - 7.3    - 21.1    -42.3
 
 
Based on what your asking for  if  I had to choose...this would be the load I would use IF it shot accurately from my rifle...are there other loads out there cheaper and more accurate...only you will know for sure on that one...it's your rifle... these aren't the cheapest factory loads by no-means...but these bullets are known for their  long range accuracy and how well they retain weight and their performance on game...  
 
Mac

[goose7856]

Longcruise, That is the best news I have heard yet!!  Who was doing the research??  Just wondering!!??

[goose7856]

Mac, thanx for the input.

This is how I respond to your input, ni the same order, you listed your opinion:

#1: I am not talking about InterLOCKS.......I am talking about the newer bonded core bullet Hornady has just made called the InterBOND.......

#2:  Your assumption is correct.  We have plenty of deer where I hunt in LA.  The reason I don't go anywhere else, is because I dont have anyone to go with.  My uncle brings me.  I am only 15 and can not affors to be in a club, what other solutions are there (I may be going to hunt at two other places this year with some friends but idk yet)

#3 Yes I do waste some meat.........but I help the por alot.  My family is not "fond" of deer meat, although I love it.  I always have some extras.  Since I killed 5 does, my uncle got 2 of the does and I got the other three.  I dont remember if it was with these deer, but I do know that I have given 1 full deer to the "hunters' for the hungry" program. Not 2 bad if I may say so.........

#4  Forget the sanctuary!!  Half the property we hunt on is sanctuary.  We do not have an extreme amount of land, prob. about 1200 acres, but about 600 acres is sanctuary or bowhunting only.  Not very many people bow hunt here, but the ones who do say deer are EVERYWHERE.........just running in the woods and messing around.  But I just havent gotten into bowhunting yet.....I will start next year. Concerning the maturation process for bigger deer.  We have a strict rule for now that states, "you shoot a buck, you mount the buck".  We have only killed 2 bucks in the last 4 years.  I think that is strict management.  (the people before they bought the property shot everything that moved).

Lastly: Those long range numbers still do not surpass the Interbond by Hornady in the Light Magnum round.  check it out at www.hornady.com

thanx........and keep it coming

[Mac11700]

Goose:
 
I'm glad you have helped the needy with your extra venison...That's Great...I think everyone  should..You haven't really said...but is this land belong to your family? If it does...I think you could get in touch with your conservation dept about managing the land and see if they could recommend a solution to the over growth...if they are like Florida or Geogia they migh suggest a partial burn on some of the acreage...if it's someone elses..perhaps you could (with the help of your family) talk to the owners and see if you could clean up some of it...I know you said they have food plots growing...but clearing out travel corridors wouldn't hurt...and it sounds like it would help you tremendously get back in there a little easier.
 
As far as the Interbonds go...there hasn't been much press on them...some have used them and had good luck with them...but ...as with any cartridge...you'll just have to give them a try and see if they will shoot good for you.
 
It seems your entralled with the few fps faster velocity...as I have said before...that doesn't always make it the "Best"...you'll still have to try them and see if they will shoot...given the possible yardages you have stated 0-400 yards as the criteria...with most shots under the max...the extra 100 fps or so won't make that much of a difference...2" difference in drop @400 yards don't make or break a cartridge when shooting at deer size game,maybe prairie dogs...but not deer....You have to get to know the trajectory of the load your shooting to be able to consistent hit an animal @ 400 yards cleanly...and this is what I'm trying to explain to you,having the confidence and "Knowing" what your load will do at whatever range your shooting.If  your Light Magnums are a 2-4" group @ 100 yards...what do you think they will be @ 400 yards??? All the extra velocity you gain will go to waste if you can't hit what your shooting at now will it....If 400 yards is a possibility...then you need to shoot at that range and not guess...relying on what the Manufacture says about the ballistics they achieved and expecting the exact same out of your rifle isn't the way to do it. This is why so-many of us chronograph our loads...factory and handloads...we taylor the load to the game we are hunting and maximize it's accuracy out of the rifle we are shooting it in...because we know that it will be different for each rifle we shoot...
 
Please understand I'm not downing the Light Magnums nor Hornady's products...I use them all the time...I'm basing this on the maximum yardages you stated and what your wanting the bullet to do,I go by what I've seen and what different friends of mine use in their rifles...if you have a liberal game count for your deer season...you'll have the perfect opportunity to try out different loads and see how they preform...first hand evidence is always better than having to take someone elses word on it...I know your trying to save yourself some work...but there really isn't any easy answer to your situation...there are a-lot of variables to making an all around load that will preform perfectly at point blank range and at 400 yards...
 
My advice would be ...try them and see how well they do for you...I know it's not cheap to do this...but you can start saving your brass for when you start reloading your own...
 
 
Mac

[goose7856]

I'm glad you have helped the needy with your extra venison...That's Great...I think everyone should..You haven't really said...but is this land belong to your family? If it does...I think you could get in touch with your conservation dept about managing the land and see if they could recommend a solution to the over growth...if they are like Florida or Geogia they migh suggest a partial burn on some of the acreage...if it's someone elses..perhaps you could (with the help of your family) talk to the owners and see if you could clean up some of it...I know you said they have food plots growing...but clearing out travel corridors wouldn't hurt...and it sounds like it would help you tremendously get back in there a little easier.

No the land is not owned by anyone in my family.  My uncle, the man who brings me hunting, is good friends with the owner (he spilits the membership of $5000, with another friend, so my uncle only pays $2500 a year).  They owner has been clearing out the land for the last 2 years by bulldozer, etc.  I do not think he would want to burn the land.  If he wants to clear it out, he would rather just pay for the bulldozer, and gain profit from selling the trees he knocks down.  We are in a deer Management program (DMAP), I do not know if you have heard of it, but biologist come out and give a rough estimate of how many deer are on the property, and they give us doe tags to manage the herd of deer.  Last year we had 50 tags, so that is why I was able to kill so many does.  B/c of the spilit membership, my uncle and I are only supposed to be able to kil 3 deer TOTAL, and the other half of the membership can do the same.  However, the owner has it set up to where he has 2 memberships, therefore he can kill 12 deer.  Last year, he allowed me to kill 3 extra deer, and another girl to kill 3 extra deer (from the other half of our membership).  So we killed six deer that were really "his".  He was trying to kill all 50 does.  We got up to 45 (I think).  :grin: ..........Concerning the traveling, we have cut roads all throughout the property (they may have already been there from when he bought the property).  He has done the most clearing this year, than any other.  He has cleared out an area that is about 200 yards wide, and 400 yards long.  It is long enough to have 2 stands on it.  This will be a brand new food plot, b/c the deer eat the plots down to the ground, so maybe it will allow them to grow a little taller.  That is the reason I want the long range bullet!!??

So do syou think the Swift Bullet you mentioned before would be able to shoot well out of my gun?? J/W!!

Thanx for the info.......and keep it cocming!! HAHA :-D  

[Mac11700]

Goose:

There is a good possibility that it will,same too for the Light Mags......like I said...you really need to give them a try and see how well they shoot in your rifle.....this is a good of reason as any to start reloading as I've ever seen... and one most of us have faced at one time or another...if you did reload..then you could have the luxury of truely tayloring your loads to  your rifle...both for the velocities...and for the accuracy...sometimes you just can't get a factory load to work out...other times...you'll find a factory load that you can't even get close to reloading...that's just the way it is...

So the choices you have is to keep buying  factory loads till you find one that is acceptable...or you seriously start figuring out how to get the reloading gear together to roll your own.

Good Luck to you


Mac

[goose7856]

Mac your definityly right......I has just posted this, but just under another thread........heres what I had to say:

HAHAHAHHAHAH!!!!!!

I just figured it out. It took me long enough, but I finally realized what you were all saying about using a premium bullet. Almost all bullets are going to fly at the same fps. I know that certain models "catch the wind", and other are better for long range but all in all they all fly about the same.

It all comes down to which bullet will do what you expect to the best of its abilities.........RIGHT??

I was just messing around looking at the Nosler website, and I really liked the look of the new Accubond CT. I do wish they made it in a little lighter load, bc the lightest is 180 grains, but when comparing the Accubond to the Interbond made by hornady, their is very little difference. Now if the Interbond opens correctly and mushrooms, does not blow up on contact, and shoots well out the gun, then it is the load for me. I really do not want the 180 grain, but they do not make a smaller grain bullet for a 30-06. The difference b/t the interbond and accubond is really only about 3 inch, at 300 yards, and I doubt I would have the balls to shoot at one any farther than that. THE ONLY THING THAT BOTHERS ME ABOUT THE ACCUBOND IS THE LOW WEIGHT RETENTION!!!???

It is advertised that is only retains 60%-70% of its mass. But one thing I read at another forum is this: A guy shot a few round at a target shooting 200 grain AccuBonds. Right behind the target was a mound of hard packed sand. He said it was about 10 yards farther back. He shot a few rounds, and then went and found all the bullets. The AVERAGE weight retention was 102 grains. He said he is sold on them, bc the vitals, and even a bone, is not as hard as a block of sand, and if they can withstand that, then they will withstand anything. Just thought some of you would like to know that.

Another question I have is if the Accubonds are part solid bullet part ballistic tip. Because they have the plastic tip, wouldn't that make them partially a ballistic tip, and the rest is similar to a normal Nosler Partition???

I going to do exactly what all of you have said. I will go buy a box of the Light Magnum Interbond in 150 grain, and sight it in the see how they group. If they are sub 1 inch (hopefully about about .5 inch) then I will just return the Accubonds, and be done with it. If they do not shoot well, then the next bullet will be the Accubonds. Does this sound like a good plan??

Thanx and please respond ASAP........so that I can get use to my new scope, and the new rounds. THANX

What do you think??

Thanx for all your help!!

[Mac11700]

Goose:

Well...if it's going to loose that much weight...sheeeese take a look at this site before you make up your mind on which one to keep...

http://www.swiftbullets.com/index2a.html

you just might get the 411 on why I like these...

Reliable expansion as low as 1440fps and stays together at  velocities over 3000 fps retaining over 80% of its weight for the Sirroco and weight retension of  up to +/- 95% for the A- Frames...this is from their data from their #1 reloading manual...which if you get a chance to look thru is a very informational read and well worth the $23.00 price of admission......

Mac

[goose7856]

Those are GREAT bullets!!  I really like the look of the Sirocco!!  You are definitely right........If I'm going to shoot a bullet, it should hold up more.  I now know your "411".  They seem to best the best bullet choice on the market, if they perform as they did on their website.  The sirocco is not a ballistic tip, right???

All in all, who makes these in factory ammo, and which would you prefer the A-frame or The Sirocco??

Thanx you have been a great help.........and I promise I won't keep bugging you about it much more!!  :grin:

[High Brass]

goose,

  A scirocco isn't a balistic tip.  A scirocco is a bonded bullet that will retain weight much better at high impact velocities.  I believe that Remington loads them in a factory option.  Check out www.remington.com and look under ammunition to be sure.  This may be what you are looking for.  Good luck.

[goose7856]

Yes you are right.........I looked after I posted and found out that Lapua and maybe Norma also have ammo with the Scirocco, but they are REALLY expensive, almost as much as weatherby rounds.  

For some reason I just dont feel right about buying Remington Ammo.  I have always been told to buy Federal or Hornady............is there any difference in performance between these brands??  or do they all do the same thing, send a bullet flying out at really fast speeds(sarcasism)....?

Thanx.......and keep it coming!!

[goose7856]

I was just comparing the Hornady Light Magnum Interbonds to the Swift Scirocco's and the accuracy is about the same (listed).  But I just understand one thing!!!

The Hornady's Energy foot pounds is so much higher than other bullets!!!

Hor. Interbond: 3200 energy in foot pounds

Rem. Swift Scirocco: 2820 energy in foot pounds

Thats 380 foot pounds of differnce!!

I just can't understand it.  I know the Interbond travels 200 fps faster but I didnt think it would equal to almost 400 more foot pounds of energy.

I know this is not a big deal, bc is only takes around 900 foot pounds of energy to kill a deer, but still is just threw me for a loop.

Thanx.......and keep it coming!!

[Mac11700]

Well...not to drag up an old H&R forum debate...but as far as the faster bullet penatrating further...one just has to look at how well the 45-70 stacks up against the rest of the really large bore cartridges that are moving over 400 fps faster to see that it isn't always chisled in stone on that one...once you learn the trajectory of your load...you really won't have a problem,and it's how the bullet preforms in game that counts...magnum velocities have their place...but again...if you are your rifle don't shoot them well...what's the use...by the way...Remington makes some fine ammo to use...so don't be put off by using it

Mac

[High Brass]

Mac's right, Remington ammo is fine.   Its not what you like, its what your rifle likes :-) .  I can guarantee you that you'll never notice 300 or so ft. lbs. or 100 fps in velocity.  Legendary lawman Bill Jordan had a saying,"speed's fine but accuracy is final".   He was talking about drawing/shooting from a duty holster but I think that it applies in velocity vs. accuracy of hunting loads.

[Lawdog]

goose7856,

One thing you will find out is companies pad their data to some extent.  All the ballistic charts and printed data are just guidelines not bibles.  You are going to have to try different ammo to find the one that your rifle shoots best.  What shoots good in one rifle very well may not shoot worth a darn in another of the very same make and model.  That is another reason for getting into reloading.  By the way you don’t need a bunch of money to get started in reloading.  All the components you will need to reload can/will fit in a box under your bed.  You can a Lee Loader for under $20.00 that will start you out turning out very usable loads.  Don’t believe those that will tell you they don’t work because they do work very nicely.  I started out with Lee Loaders when I was 13.  Personally though I recommend that you start with the Hand Press Kit. It includes:

$26.98 Hand Press

$11.98 Ram Prime

$2.98 Powder Funnel

$1.98 Case Sizing Lube

Buy any Lee Die Set and you can purchase this kit LESS DIES for only $36.98 and it will fit into a box that will fit under your bed(or wherever you want to store it) along with powder, bullets, primers and brass.  Start with a good reloading manual(plenty of good ones to choose from), add a scale(best idea) and you are ready to start a lifelong hobby that will let you fine tune loads to fit any rifle you may ever own.  I take my Hand Press, plus components, with me everytime I go to the range or on extended hunting trips.  Lawdog
 

[goose7856]

I had just started thinking about doing that.  You answered my question before I asked it......how much would it cost.  I am about to have around $160 to spend, and didnt know if this would be enough money to start reloading.  Since I could buy the stuff for reloading, and still have about $100 remaining, do you guys/gals (politically correct) have any idea of something else that could be useful for the upcoming hunting season??

I was thinking about getting a recoil pad.....I found the R3 made by remington for about $25, and another brand (maybe like Bear Bason) that gives 10% more shock protection and cost about $15.  I am looking to put a bunch of money into my equipment, for I think I'm going to take my first buck this year.........I JUST HAVE AN AWSOME FEELING!!

do you have any advice??

[Mac11700]

Goose:

I'm not sure which rifle your shooting,but the r-3 pads are very nice...Pachmayer makes some good ones and so too does Hi-Viz...they really take the sting out of a rifle that hurts...also...add one of the shotgun comb pads you see on some trap guns...,put it on the side somewhat,and over the top(providing you don't have a cheek piece) ..this will take all the hurt out of the stock on your cheek if it's cold.

Since you talked of the possiblity of having a 400 yard shot...get out to where your going to shoot that distance and measure off some known distances,and mark flag them with surveyors tape...this will save you initially for a good range finder...these are a good investment and I use mine all the time(I hate guessing even though I pretty darn good at it)

Look into picking up one of those portable/collapsable game carriers...Cabela's and Bass Pro has them on sale...this takes a-lot of drudgery out of hauling your game out...I think we've both been there and done that enough :wink:


Good camoflauge...good binoculars...a comfortable seat...a good back pack to carry it all in....you'll be set...


Good Luck

Mac

[goose7856]

Recoil pad- Working on getting it soon

Rangefinder- GOT IT!!

Binos-  Got it!!

Game carrier- nope

Backpack- need a lil bigger one

Seat- getting a good one soon

Good Camo- YES!

[cam69conv]

Ok Ive standsed it till I cant standsed it na more.....Ok goose...# 1 bubs...Like was said many times before...ya gotta shoot what ya gun likes ta eat...#2 I really dont understand your indifference to Ballistic tips...I shot 5 deer last year with the Hornady sst's 3 with a .270 and 2 with an .06.. The 3 with my .270 were 150 yrds+ thereabouts and all three were lung shots behind the shoulder....Had a lil bitty entrance and about a 2.5 inch exit on all 3...Now one went  around 20 yards...2 didnt go 5 feet...Now with my .06, 1 was at around 75 yrds with a quarter away shot (the shot all us hunters dream about) And it didnt even take a step...The other was about 120 away commin straight at me...( I know not posed to take that shot but tha sucker had a dang forest on his head) I pumped one right in the white spot and it just fell over backwards. Now yes I do reload but I have many friends that also use these since I started useing them and None of us will ever turn back.Some of them reload but most of them dont. I understand your delema with the thick underbrush as we have it bad here where I live also...We have thorn thickets that do thiere best to try to saw ya head off. Bullet retention, muzzel velocities, all these play a role. Sometimes its just a simple matter as to how tuff the deer is..Ive seen dem suckers go 500 yards without a daggone strand of heart muscle left innum...And yes it was a deer I shot..A tiney lil ole 115 pound doe shot with an old sporterised 8mm mauzer at 50 yards..And I aint kiddin I shot her heart clean up...Sometimes unless you spineum er brainum they gonna run..Its just the nature of the beast. I have found..THROUGH experiance that a quality ballistic tip will give you the absolute best in accuracy simply because of aerodinamics (I think I spelled dat right) And they are absolutely fantastic for deer..Now as far as for larger game Ill let you know after I get back this year from an elk hunt..Ill be breakin in the new TC .300 win mag with the sst's...Course Ill have the ole Marlin as a backup just in case..LOL...Aint nuffin standin up to my ole 444 marlin if its within 150 yards...Funny how 300 grains of lead will dropum aint it I hope you get all this figgered out kiddo and gl on ya huntin this year...Oh yeah pats..many pats on tha back for your contributions to hunters feedin tha hungry prog son...Your a good kid...Thats hard ta say nowadays fer alot of the yungguns out there...I think yor uncle did good takin ya out in the woods n showin ya nature...Best thing in my book for kids..Gettum offa dem ole video games  Thats my 2 cents worth in contributions