Author Topic: Etronix, a big FLOP?  (Read 1592 times)

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Offline bgjohn

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Etronix, a big FLOP?
« on: July 04, 2004, 04:32:51 AM »
Did anyone out there buy one of those Remingtons that use the electricly fired primer? The price sure has dropped on them. I suspect they're going to turn into boat anchors.
JM
I know nothing. I am only a messenger.

Offline Questor

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Etronix, a big FLOP?
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2004, 10:29:31 AM »
Apparently so. I forgot they existed until I saw your post.
Safety first

Offline Wlscott

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Etronix, a big FLOP?
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2004, 10:48:49 AM »
I know a guy that bought one in .243 cal.  He got it a couple of months ago at a REALLy good price.

Took him a month to find primers for it.  It is a good shooting rifle, pretty accurate.  

I doubt he'll be able to find primers for it much longer though.
You haven't hunted......Until you've hunted the hunters

Offline Zachary

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Etronix, a big FLOP?
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2004, 01:54:48 PM »
I saw one somewhere on the net for $499.  Still, if it becomes obsolete, which it certainly looks like it is, then $499 is actually too much to pay.

Zachary

Offline rickyp

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Etronix, a big FLOP?
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2004, 03:17:36 PM »
it was a grreat idea. the trouble is you need a specail primer and can not get factory loaded rounds for it.

Now if they come up with a way to fire normal primers they will have a winner

Offline SPW

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Etronix, a big FLOP?
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2004, 03:36:16 AM »
I think its just as well, I don't like the idea of a electronic rifle. Besides I read in one of the magazines that they would only last 1500 rounds or so, before the electronics needed to be replaced. And if they would say that its not good. :shock: Just one more thing to go wrong.

Offline wareagleguy

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Etronix, a big FLOP?
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2004, 05:24:48 AM »
I think it's a real shame it never took on.  I think the concept was great.  The only way to improve the action is to introduce electronics in the equation.  I know "things can go wrong" but the idea is sound.  
 
I think we have a tendency to hang on to tradition too much sometimes and it costs us and this is a good example.  Maybe it was just too soon and maybe later the shooting community will be ready for such a weapon.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Offline Zachary

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Etronix, a big FLOP?
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2004, 07:42:10 AM »
My related concern was weatherproofing.  Could something like that withstand extreme temperatures? Rain?  Sleet?  Snow?  Heat?   Also, what if you banged the gun up pretty bad as a result of it falling down, or hitting a tree, or sliding down a steep slope?  How secure are all those electronics in there?

At that time, I decided to wait and see what happened.  Needless to say, I'm glad I did.

Zachary

Offline wareagleguy

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Etronix, a big FLOP?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2004, 08:10:28 AM »
Zach,
I think of it this way...

Electronics are used on your auto.  How bad is that enviroment?
Electronics are used in ships/subs.  
Electronics are used in space.   Think about that environment !!!
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Offline Wlscott

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Etronix, a big FLOP?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2004, 08:57:28 AM »
brdavis,

You're exactly right.  Ten or fifteen years from now, someone will re-introduce the etronix system as a new idea, and if the public is open to it, it'll take off.

It's just like the archery indusrty.  They introduced eccentric cams and nobody liked them.  Everyone wanted their round cams/wheels.  That was, what.....ten or fifteen years ago?  Now go try to buy a bow with round wheels.  You'll get laughed out of the pro shop :-D
You haven't hunted......Until you've hunted the hunters

Offline John Traveler

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electronic rifle
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2004, 10:21:16 AM »
Gentlemen:

My background is electronics and reliability engineering.

In terms of reliable function and being able to hold up to extreme operating conditions, hermetically sealed electronic/computer advances have made our lives so much easier...in most ways!

Remember the pre-computer internal combustion engines, transmissions, climate controls, telecommunications, television & radio, manufacturing, sales & inventory control, photography, and much more?  

Sure, most machine systems  were functional, but inefficient and required constant maintenance and repair.  Reliable electronic systems have made it possible for complicated consumer goods to be affordable by the masses, and be reduced to literally throwaway status.  Much of the electronic control elements in our toys are NOT repairable.  What can you do to repair a cell phone besides replace the battery?  What does it cost to repair a malfunctioning DVD player or a camera?  The repair costs are often prohibitively expensive compared to replacement.

I would wait for military accceptance electronically fired small arms before seeing commercial success.  The few attempts for electrical primer ignition in soldier's weapons fell flat.  So it likely will be for the Remington electronic rifle.  A nice idea, but already dying before it was fully grown.
John Traveler

Offline alsatian

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Etronix, a big FLOP?
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2004, 10:23:26 AM »
When was the last time you used a piece of electronics that was 30 years old?  Electronics, typically, are not built to last nearly as long as we expect our rifles to last.  And have you tried to have electronics repaired -- 30 year old electronic devices that is?

Sure, I may have a 30 year old electronic device that still works, but heaven help me if I have to have it repaired!  And I don't include tube-based devices, since electronics for the last 30 years has been almost exclusively semiconductor based.

Anyway, I have a degree in Electrical Engineering and have an appreciation for electronics.  I'm not sure I welcome them into my rifle -- which I hope my grandson is able to shoot deer with 100 years from now.  I like the idea of a nearly indestructable rifle, if I do my part of maintaining it.

Offline John Traveler

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electronic ignition
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2004, 10:49:29 AM »
As I understand it, Remington's electronic ignition system was intended to give the rifle better accuracy AND reliability than conventional primer ignition by eliminating mechnical striker movement.  Unfortunately, it was a step backwards from standard armament design principles.

Percussion ignition is standard in all small arms except for the few attempts at caseless ammunition weapons (Gyrojet, FN & H&K experimental guns being examples).  Electrical ignition designs have only been accepted in medium caliber automatic cannon and large cannon caliber designs (main battle tanks, naval and land artillery), where the advantages of caseless ammunition are required.  

In medium aircraft cannon, the electrical ignition gives greater reliability in automatic guns that change operating temperatures, altitude, and atmospheric pressures quickly.  In large naval and land cannon, electrical ignition and igniter charges allows reliable combustion of huge propellent columns.  The caseless designs expedites quick reloading and case disposal problems.  Ditto for missile and rocket munitions, all of which use electrical ignition.

None of these military applications use electrical ignition to increase accuracy.  It seems as if Remington has put the cart before the horse in this instance.  A high tech ignition system MAY give measurably better accuracy at the expense of complexity, special primers, and even, reduced long-term reliability.  What kind of heriloom is that to give your grandchildren??
John Traveler

Offline bgjohn

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Etronix, a big FLOP?
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2004, 12:11:00 PM »
:grin: Very good responses. :-)
JM
I know nothing. I am only a messenger.

Offline Omaha-BeenGlockin

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Etronix, a big FLOP?
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2004, 12:38:44 PM »
Don't forget your electronics will be fried by the EMP wave when the nukes go off-----lol. Making it worthless.

Something more likely to happen----who wants a deer(or whatever) hunt ruined by a watch battery???? Also--batteries don't work well in the cold----generally the time most hunting seasons are occuring.

Offline Zachary

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Etronix, a big FLOP?
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2004, 12:51:43 PM »
Quote from: brdavis
Zach,
I think of it this way...

Electronics are used on your auto.  How bad is that enviroment?
Electronics are used in ships/subs.  
Electronics are used in space.   Think about that environment !!!


brdavis,

True, but think about it this way.....

High Tech NASA engineers work on the ships/subs/space,
It's bad enough that Remington hasn't improved their quality in recent years, but what the heck do they know about engineering??? :)

Zachary

Offline John Traveler

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Electronic ignition
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2004, 01:04:07 PM »
Zachary,

Actually the traditional part of Remington probably DOES know a lot about engineering.  After all, they are America's oldest surviving gun manufacturer.  It's just that consumer faddism has become a part of big business and the Marketing types are listened to.
 
If I had to make a GUESS, the Remington Marketing Department boys went out drinking with some electronic engineer type that thought E-ignition would sell.  Probably the same guys that thought up moulded-in-place barrels and all-plastic rifles too.

Therefore, another rushed-into-production product that Big Green's Marketing Department hoped would catch on after a flashy article in the American Rifleman.  No deep research or market acceptance testing.  Just make it and hope it sells.
John Traveler