NEF 45-70 and Shotgun Scope?

[JBKERNS]

I love handy user friendly rifles and low magnification scopes.

Lurking here I got the 45-70 Handi-Rifle bug and desire a low mag scope in it as I like quick acquisition and I will be shooting in the brush.

How would a shotgun scope work?

What loads do you recommend for the following applications?

Informal target/plinking?
Whitetail?
Bear?
"Upper range" game/continency?

Jacketed loads, please.  I do not have the stuff to handle cast bullets.

Thanks in advance, Jeff

[Big Blue]

Jeff,
  I don't see anything wrong with you using a shotgun scope. Hey whatever works best for you should be your best choice. I put a 2.5-8x40 scope on mine, and keep it set for 2.5x, that will work for the close shots,  for longer shots, I should have more time to adjust it up to 8x if needed. I know what your saying about using various loads, but with a scope the POI will change quite a bit from one load to the next. I'm hoping to settle on something that I can use for all occassions. It will probably be a 400 gr. JFP, or a 405 gr. hard cast load. Unless my boat comes in, the chances of me hunting anything tougher than black bear, are slim to none. I'm trying every bullet I can find, just to see what works best. So far the 405 gr. are at the top for me.
Don

[marv]

I have a 4X Simmons shotgun scope on my 357 Maxie. and I
 Like it. My 45-70 barrel came a peep sught, I like it. Prob
Keep it that way, don't shot the 45-70 much. Marv.

[JBKERNS]

Thank you for the info.

I use a lee classic loader on my .308 and my psuedo-scout is shooting .625 MOA.  I am planning to get a another lee loader of the 45-70.  I am not a fan of variable scopes, my (I admit dated experience) is that they are more fragile and can shift zero, not to mention the my fear that they can be bumped off the low setting and on high which will make me miss that buck, boar, or bear.  I am sure that modern scopes are better but have never wanted to pay and take the gamble past my earlier experiences.

I am leaning toward the synthetic because the foreend looks more grippable.  In the short term, I plan to get the Cabela's bulk ammo and empty that and start reloading that brass. With the p-scout, I usually shoot hunting loads August-December and target loads the rest of the year. I will do the same with this one.  I also plan to get a stock shell holder for it.

This rifle will miss this season.  I hope to have it for the next.

I am especially looking for informal but accurate target loads and VA whitetail loads.

Thanks again and in advance, Jeff

[Big Blue]

Jeff,
  I was able to buy those stock cartridge holders you mentioned at Walmart for $1.50 each at their end of season clearance.
Don

[Leftoverdj]

Jeff, I have a dirt cheap BSA fixed 2 or 2.5X compact shotgun scope on one of my .45-70s. The scope itself leaves a lot to be desired, but the principle is great. It gives very fast pickup, all the magnification you need for woods ranges, full access to the hammer, and no overhang from the barrel when taken down.

If you run across a quality version of the same thing, please let me know.

[JBKERNS]

I have a BSA .22 Special on a CZ rimfire.  I believe the zero drifited once, but after re-adjustment, it has stayed since.  I am watching it closely.

I am thinking about the Simmons Shotgun Scope.  

Another question, what type of rail does NEF make for there rifles?  I would like to find QD rings for it.  I love QD rings for access to the reserves in an emergency.

Thanks again, Jeff

[Mac11700]

Do yourself a favour and pick up a Leupold 2x7x33 Vari X 1 for your 45-70...that's what I use on my 1895 Marlin and I love it,the 2x works great for those up close shots and you can take it up to 7x for those longer shots when needed...your 45-70 can reach out there a lot farther than you think.The scope is bright and clear... with tons of eye relief..which you'll need...and it won't break the bank for cost...and that true lifetime gaurentee is hard to beat....

As far as loads for your 45-70...pick up the Hodgdon's Annual manual for about $8.00 and look thru their loads,Ive found them to be very accurate in what you can get as far as velocity ...just remember to stay with the Trapdoor and Lever Action loads and you'll be alright.

Since you don't want cast loads and your loading for deer and bear...I suggest you try the 300 grain Nosler Partition and H4198...these 2 work for me and work well...and always when reloading reduce your loads to start and work up from there.

Good Luck

Mac

[Leftoverdj]

JB, Brownell's used to and may still stock replacement wingnuts for Weaver rings which made them QD.

I went looking at shotgun scopes after I last posted and narrowed my choices to the Simmons and the Weaver. I'm old fashioned. I simply do not trust variable scopes on high recoil rifles.

[JBKERNS]

Mac, thanks for the post and your moderation of this forum.  I have found it very helpful.  I have a Leupold Scout Scope and I love it.  Folks may crank about the cost of a Leupold, but that is a scope that will go to the grandkids.

When I get a .223 barrel I may try that variable scope.

Thanks, Jeff

[Mac11700]

JB:

Your Welcome... as for the Rifleman series or the standard Vari X 1..the cost is really quite moderate..for the amount of scope your getting... I just got a 3x9x33 Vari x 1 for a new toy I traded for...(gasp) it's not a new Handi or even a new barrel,but something I've wanted for quite some time...it's a Weatherby Mark V  in 308...so I can play around with it for awhile...I've got some plans for this one getting rebarreled sooner or later,but since I'm already reloading for my 308 Survivor I figuered what the heck...I really do like the caliber anyhow  :wink:

Mac

[JBKERNS]

I got the rifle yesterday for my birthday! Hooray!! :-D

[ratherbefishin]

I have a 2 1/2 x Leopold fixed power scope and  for ranges I shoot most of my deer in, it is close to ideal.I can't use open sights as well as I used to, so the low power scope is just about perfect.

[Wlscott]

JB, I have a Weaver K6 (fixed 6X Scope) on my 45-70 "Ultra".  

You might try looking at the Weaver fixed series of scopes.  They offer them in 2.5X, 4X and 6X and they are very reasonable in price.  These scopes are very clear and bright.  I used to have this scope mounted on my 300WSM and used it mostly for elk.  I put it on my 45-70 when I got it, and I'm pretty sure that it is going to stay there.  It's a really good match to this rifle/caliber.

I played around with a jacketed Remington Hollow Point load when I first got this rifle.  

I believe the load was a 300 grain HP, 55 gr H4198, Starline Brass and Federal LR Primers.

This really isn't a "plinking" load.  It's pretty stout, even though it's listed as a "Trapdoor" load on Hodgdons web site.  

I am loading cast bullets now.

[JBKERNS]

I have Leupold QD rings on my Scout.  Is there other good QD rings for the money?

Thanks in advance, Jeff

[Mac11700]

Warn makes some awsome QD rings and they work great for a few guys who have them on their Big Bore Lever Guns...also I know you want a fixed power and have reservations on the settings changing with a variable...but the Leupolds don't move unless you really move them...I had my 2x7x33 on and off I don't know how many times...and it returned to zero each and every time...A plus to them is having the higher magnification when you need it...like say at first lite and a deer is about 150 yards into deep timber or coming to a clearing in the woods or on a field edge...plus the 45-70 will give you a-lot more range than you think...and it's killing power at long ranges..even though it has a rainbow trajectory...is still Legendary...

Mac

[JBKERNS]

For my birthday, I received a NEF Handirifle in .45-70 Government.  With the rifle, I purchased a box of Ultramax mild loads, 410 grain lead slugs @ 1100 fps.

The rifle's fit and finish is good. The action secure but snug.  It has a short barrel and adjustable sights.  The trigger was surprisingly good compared with the first reports that I have recieved with it.  I estimate that the trigger breaks around four pounds, it is smooth albiet a little mushy. Action lockup is tight, however it is not tactile and a firm hand must be employed to shut the breech with authority. I trust that this well smooth out with use.  I boresighted the rifle at 25 yards and loaded a stoogie sized shell into the breech. I benched the rifle at 25 yards.  The first shot landed six inches wide! Recoil was like a full house .30-06.

I thought of Kipling:

"When 'arf of your bullets fly wide in the ditch,
Don't call your Martini a cross-eyed old bitch;
She's human as you are -- you treat her as sich,
 An' she'll fight for the young British soldier."

The open sights as issued is a square notch rear and a broad square front.  The rear is elevation and windage adjustable.  I was a little disappointed that the sight was not click adjustable and the manual had no reference as to what one turn means.  In five shots, I walked the shots into the "x". Another gripe is that when the hammer is down, the sights are blocked, which does not allow one to "call the shot" or follow through.   If one was to use open sights in the long term, I would suggest replacing these sights with Williams peep sights for the better adjustment and longer sight radius.  I plan to top it with a Simmons 2X Scope and use the issued sights as reserves.

I look forward to working loads as my problems are ammo related.  After hiking the rear blade far to the right for the Ultramax loads, I think that custom ammo will greatly benefit.  I have a Lee Loader,Remington 300 grain JHPs, and Winchester brass on order.  I will report load progress.

Although I had some slight gripes about the lockup of the action and the sights, my first impression is that this is a great utility piece that, when loaded correctly, will take anything in North America in an economical,user friendly, and powerful package.

-J

[JBKERNS]

Yesterday at the range, I shoot 50 and 100 yards sitting with the Ultramax. I shot the heart out at 50, and lungs at 100, after learning the the Ultramax drops five inches (25 yard zero)!

Recieved Cabelas order with reloading and cleaning stuff.  I loaded:
50.0 Grains of IMR3031
Win LR primers
Win Brass
300 gr Rem JHP

One hole groups, baby! It jars one's teeth, though.  Probably will go down to 49.5 grains, the IMR manual minimum. I will load five of these and group. I really want to go to 49, but do not want to exceed my data and underfill the case.   If it still groups tight (it should), This will be my plinking load. I have not shot distance, yet. Milk jug shot still pending <g>.

The late great Elmer Keith developed a load of 55 grs. under a Hornady 350 grain SP for "everything in Alaska."  I am looking toward the Remington 410 grain bulk bullet however, I am concerned about bullet construction of a generic bullet vs. a better quality interlock design (Hornady) hitting wild boar plate or black bear skeleton. Barnes  is another (expensive) option. The Rem JHPs will be fine for deer, I think.

The Simmons 2x scope should arrive today.

Tell me what you think.