Range report....300 WSM

[Big Tom]

 I got out again today to try some new loads for my Sako Finnlite .300 WSM and my newest shootin toy, a TC Encore SS with a Fox Ridge 26" SS barrel in 7MM08.

The TC is topped with a Nikon Monarch UCC 3X9X40. I only had a few loads to try;

1) 150 gr Sierra SPs.... 44gr of IMR 4350  2.30"  
2) 140 gr Nosler Prts...  46gr of IMR 4350  1.25" :wink:
3) 140 gr Nosler Prts...   45gr of H380       4.00"  :roll: YEESH!
This one has a LOOONG way to go!

The Sako .300 WSM has a 3X9X40 Zeiss Conquest aboard. I had a 1" group with factory Rem 180 PSPs out of the box and have been struggling to match that with a 165 gr load which is my goal (until today)

 (5 shot groups @100yds.)
1.) Hornady 165 Interbonds, 63.5 gr of IMR 4350...2.20"  
2.) Hornady 165 Interbonds. 64.0 gr of IMR 4350... 2.45"  :x
3.) Sierra    165  HPBTs        63.0 gr of IMR 4350... 1.00"  :-)
4.) Sierra    165  HPBTs        63.5 gr of IMR 4350...  0.90"  
5.) Speer GrandSlam 165      64.0 gr of IMR 4350...  4.70"  :eek:

on the #3 load I had a 0.33" three shot group with a two shot keyhole just to the left of it so this load will happily be fine tuned. This is my first experience with the Speer HPBT GameKings and I am very pleased so far.

I am wondering if this bullet (165 HPBT GameKing), would be effective on Elk at a muzzle velocity of around 3,000 fps? I will also try some loads with 165 Nosler Partitions but the Speer bullet really did well today. :grin:

[Zachary]

 
I am wondering if this bullet (165 HPBT GameKing), would be effective on Elk at a muzzle velocity of around 3,000 fps? I will also try some loads with 165 Nosler Partitions but the Speer bullet really did well today. :grin:

NO WAY! :eek:   DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

Tom, that bullet, generally speaking, is a very accurate bullet, designed mostly for just that - accuracy.  I know of people who use this bullet on deer, but even then consider this.  The 165 HPTB was used on whitetail deer, which is relatively light skinned - definately waaayyyy lighter than an Elk which has heavier muscles and bones.  This bullets breaks apart very easily and will not hold together.

Also, those people who use the 165 HPBT do so in guns .30-06 or under (like .308).  In this manner, the velocity is reduced, so the bullet does not explode as violently as it does at higher velocities.  Even at .30-06 vecolities I think that the HPBT is going too fast.

So, using the 165 HPBT in 1) a .300WSM, and on 2) Elk?  No way - I don't think it would ever penetrate - or at least a few inches, which would definately cripple the animal.

Zachary

[oldelkhunter]

Big Tom ..try 64 grains of  H4350 with a 180 partition and if no pressure signs work up to 65. I got  1hole groups with my 300 wsm in an Abolt SS stalker and less then 1" with a Model 70 SS classic in same caliber.

[Big Tom]

 
I am wondering if this bullet (165 HPBT GameKing), would be effective on Elk at a muzzle velocity of around 3,000 fps? I will also try some loads with 165 Nosler Partitions but the Speer bullet really did well today. :grin:

NO WAY! :eek:   DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

Tom, that bullet, generally speaking, is a very accurate bullet, designed mostly for just that - accuracy.  I know of people who use this bullet on deer, but even then consider this.  The 165 HPTB was used on whitetail deer, which is relatively light skinned - definately waaayyyy lighter than an Elk which has heavier muscles and bones.  This bullets breaks apart very easily and will not hold together.

Interesting :wink:
I called the Sierra info hotline a while ago and the Tech recommended these for Elk. He said the HPBT in the GameKing series was designed more like a Barnes X and the HPBT in the MatchKing had the inadequate hunting qualities you spoke of Zachary. I just want to make sure we are talking apples to apples.
I have 165 partitions to try and will give some 180 CT Partition Golds I have on hand a try. I hadn't tried them because of the comments I'd read concerning performance in the WSM with heavier bullets than 150-165 gr. But heck if I can get good groups...180 it is!  :sniper:
I would think a 165 Partition would certainly be adequate for Elk. A max load in the book is listed at almost 3200 fps

[Zachary]

Tom,

I'm sorry, you're right.  I was mistaken.  I was thinking MatchKing and not GameKing.

I honestly do not have any experience with the GameKing.  Nonetheless, I would try and focus on other ammo such as the Trophy Bonded and the new Barnes TSX (Triple Shock Bullet).  Try these and see how they work.  I know that the older Barnes X is apparently very finiky in gun - they are wonderfully accurate in some guns, while they can't hit a barn in others.  But people say that the new TSX are apparently more uniform in accuracy.

I would say try 'em both - they are EXCELLENT Elk bullets - especially the Barnes X - it will penetrate a concrete building!

Zachary

[bigjeepman]

Big Tom ...

I hadn't tried them because of the comments I'd read concerning performance in the WSM with heavier bullets than 150-165 gr. But heck if I can get good groups...180 it is!

What is that you have read about bullets heavier than 165gr? I cannot get my Win Model 70 Black Shadow to group well with bullets less than 165gr.

[/quote]

[Big Tom]

Big Tom ...

I hadn't tried them because of the comments I'd read concerning performance in the WSM with heavier bullets than 150-165 gr. But heck if I can get good groups...180 it is!

What is that you have read about bullets heavier than 165gr? I cannot get my Win Model 70 Black Shadow to group well with bullets less than 165gr.

[/quote]

When the Short Mags came on the scene there were comments by various gun writers alluding to the inherent lack of case depth to accomodate enought powder to match ballistics with the full size counterparts ie...300 WSM vs .300 Win Mag. In the case of the .300 WSM even the comments in the reloading manuals say "best suited for mid range, 150-165gr bullets".
However, each rifle is unique, which is why I returned to reloading. So far my Sako Finnlite shot 1" out of the box with factory 180 gr PSPs, and as you can see some of the 165 gr loads I tried were pretty bad. What kind of game are you planning to use your WSM on? 180 gr bullets kill whitetails really well and don't overly expand, spoiling less meat.

[Zachary]

You can use 180 grain bullets that can cause much more meat damage at a given distance than even some 150 grain bullets.  For example, you can use a 180 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip and a 150 grain Full Metal Jacket.  The 150 will pencil right through, but the 180 Ballistic Tip will expand violently.  So bullet design and construction is arguably more important than just bullet weight.

Zachary

[Big Tom]

I guess I'd generally agree with you Zachary...however where I live people consume venison regularly... year round. Most families harvest 3-6 deer and many take 2-3 just for jerky.
The 30.06 in 165-180gr soft nose or ballistic tips are commonly used. You shoot them in the lungs and they exit the ribcage the size of a silver dollar. I've shot around 60-70 whitetail with those set ups and witnessed many, many more. Not much meat to damage on the ribs.
I shot two nice bucks on opening day three years ago with a 30.06 using 150 gr Ballistic Silvertips at a whopping 30 yds. Both dropped like rocks in their tracks. Upon field dressing I expected a larger exit wound but no, they were quarter sized, penetrating through both sides of the ribcage and on.
Shoot em in the boiler room and the engine stops...rather quickly. :wink:

[Coyote Hunter]

Big Tom -

First, congrats on your new toys!  

I'm surprised the Grand Slams grouped (patterened?) at 4.7".  I shoot the 160's in my 7mm Rem Mag, as does my hunting buddy, Dave.  Not only have they been outstanding elk bullets (6 in the last 5 years between us with this bullet), they have been very accurate in our Rugers.  Mine typically shoots .5" at 100 yards, his .4".  I was just looking at a write-up I did on our year 2000 elk hunt, and during pre-season practice I grouped 3 Grand Slams into 1.9" at 300 yards.  Dave put three into 1.0" at that distance.

As to bullet selection for elk, I would pass on the GameKing and any other standard "cup and core" bullet - there are simply too many better choices for 3,000fps.  

My first choice would be a bonded core bullet - particularly the Swift A-Frame, Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, or North Fork.  Following these my choice would be the Barnes Triple Shock, CT Failsafe and Swift Scirocco.

Second choices would be premium but non-bonded bullets - Nosler Partition and Grand Slam in particular.

My bias comes fom the frst elk I ever shot, some 20+ years ago.  The 162g 7mm Hornady BTSP bullet left my 7mm Mag at around 2900fps and hit a bull elk at 125 yards or so, centered on a near-side rib.  It put him down but there wasn't much left of hte bullet when we recovered its remains from under the hide on the far side.  I switched to the Grand Slams the following year and have only recovered one since, in 2002.  That one took out both shoulder joints of a big bull and was recovered under the hide on the far side - nicely mushroomed and still weighing nearly 114 grains.

My plan is to go to a true bonded-core bullet but I have a lot of Grand Slams to shoot up first.  Maybe next year.

Good luck!

[Big Tom]

I was a little surprised at the Grand Slams also. But then it could be the powder or the OAL dimension. IMR 4350 was recommended by a few other GBers for the .300 WSM.
I won't be Elk hunting this year so I'll probably work on the WSM loads down the line. I am shifting focus to a Barnes triple X 130 gr load for the 7mm08.
If you have a pet load for the .300 WSM with with a good bonded core bullet pass it on brother! My 7MM Mag liked 160gr Grand Slams & Partitions equally well .  

[oldelkhunter]

I have 165 partitions to try and will give some 180 CT Partition Golds I have on hand a try. I hadn't tried them because of the comments I'd read concerning performance in the WSM with heavier bullets than 150-165 gr. But heck if I can get good groups..

    I have had nothing but excellent performance with 180 grain bullets in a 300 wsm...I found CT partition golds did not group as well as regular partitions but nevertheless under 1/2" in an A bolt and less then an 1" in a mOdel 70 classic.