Author Topic: savage vs weatherby (Read 1707 times)

IronTrip · « **on:** May 19, 2004, 10:16:02 AM »

hi im in the market for a new hunting rifle but unfortunately price is a big factor for me. i've narrowed my search down to 2 that seem to be the best deals for a quality rifle. the weatherby vanguard or the savage 11f (there are a few other model savages that are around that price range also such as the 110 that i've looked into also) i just wanted to hear a few opinions about the two and any other suggestions for rifles around this price range anyone has, thanks

Zachary · « **Reply #1 on:** May 19, 2004, 11:04:18 AM »

Quality wise, the Weatherby Vanguard (which is really a Howa 1500) is the best.

Accuracy wise, it's hard to say. Quality doesn't always equate to accuracy - enter Savage. Savage rifles are, in my opinion, lower quality rifles. However, for whatever reason, they are, generally speaking, very accurate.

The Vanguard comes with a written guarantee that it will shoot 1.5 MOA or better at 100 yards, but I'm sure that, with the right ammo, both the Savage and the Vanguard will produce better groups.

To me, the Savage just feels sloppy. As such, my vote, in this instance, would be for the Vanguard.

Zachary

Val · « **Reply #2 on:** May 19, 2004, 12:45:46 PM »

I own a Savage in 22 mag, 300 RUM and 25-06. Each an every one of them shoot MOA or better. The 25-05 shoots 1/2MOA when I'm doing my job. I believe that every one of these rifles are more accurate than I can shoot. How can rifles that shoot so well be considered poor quality? Is it poor quality that makes them so accurate? They may not be the sexiest looking rifles but poor quality they are not.

azshooter · « **Reply #3 on:** May 19, 2004, 02:17:37 PM »

The Savage is very high quality if you define quality as shooting and functioning very well. I can't say about old Savage bolt guns but my new model 12 is not sloppy at all it is in fact quite smooth. I think Savage bolt guns are the best value out there, why pay more for a gun that shoots the same or even worse than a Savage is my take.

dbuck · « **Reply #4 on:** May 19, 2004, 02:32:10 PM »

I have both and wouldn't trade them for anything, my Savage 10 is 308 with heavy barrel and it shoots 1/2" groups (5 shots) at 100 yards and my Weatherby Vanguard is a 24" barrel 30-06 which I'm taking Elk hunting this fall shoots 1" groups at 100 yards. Just for hunting I would go with the Weatherby Vanguard in 30-06 or 270 caliber and not look back.

dbuck

IronTrip · « **Reply #5 on:** May 19, 2004, 02:41:39 PM »

thanks for the input so far everyone. you hit the nail on the head with the choice of caliber dbuck, i was thinking either 30-06 or 270 wsm. that may be a debate for a later date though. actually in between the time i posted this and now i went to the range, and while i was out at walmart picking up some ammo for my handgun (xd 40) i saw a weatherby vanguard synthetic for $379. that seems like a fair price but i had heard a rumor somewhere that the ones they sell at walmart are almost like factory rejects that don't meet the shot group guarantee. it sounds like a bs rumor to me but i just wanted to check and see if anyone else had heard of this before. thanks again

longwinters · « **Reply #6 on:** May 19, 2004, 03:32:18 PM »

I would ask to look at the paperwork that comes with the rifle and see what it says about accuracy guarantee. Then you have proof one way or ta other.

long

dbuck · « **Reply #7 on:** May 19, 2004, 03:52:00 PM »

I agree, ask the clerk to see the box and paper work, inside their will be a target where the rifle has been shot at the factory. Walmart gets these from a distributor I been told. I got mine from a gun store, but I have look at the ones at Walmart and they look the same to me.

dbuck

DirtyHarry · « **Reply #8 on:** May 19, 2004, 03:54:01 PM »

IronTrip,
The Wal Mart Weatherbys are not factory rejects, they come with the same accuracy guarantee as all vanguards. You will find the target in the box. I think you would be happy with either, but it would be very very hard for savage to top weatherby's customer service in the event you encountered a problem. Thats why I personally would go with the weatherby

Bearwolf31 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 20, 2004, 03:45:03 AM »

I would get the weatherby vanguard as well. Nicer made rifle in my opinion, that along with a accuracy guarantee. Not many guarantee's in todays world, but this is one of them. Wally world gets their rifles from www.sportssouthinc.com supposedly "The countrys oldest and largest single source distributor of firearms and ammunition". Goodluck on whatever your choice may be.

Bearwolf

Squeeze · « **Reply #10 on:** May 20, 2004, 05:01:36 AM »

I have a Howa 1500, in .300 WSM, a Savage 16FSS, in .22-250 Rem, and a Savage
Striker(bolt action handgun), in .308 Win. From this sample, I will have to give a very
slight edge to Savage, in the accuracy category. The Howa does shoot sub MOA groups,
with certain loads, and when I am doing my job. But both Savages shoot seem to
get them into slightly smaller sub MOA groups, with a larger range of ammo. As
for quality, fit, and finish, I'd have to give the nod to Howa(Weatherby Vanguard).
The synthetic stock on the Savage was pretty rough, and a few of the internal stamped
parts seem a little on the sloppy side. Not really a problem, other than aesthetics.
In the trigger category, the Savage Accu-Trigger gets the node. I have mine adjusted
to as light as they will go, and the Savage gets down to an acceptable level, where
I probably won't do any further trigger work. The Howa has an adjustable trigger,
but I can not get mine down to where the force, and travel, make my finger happy.
I will be trying an after-market trigger, for this gun, so that might improve that
issue with the Howa. As for bolt smoothness, the Howa might be a little better,
but both feel a little rough after I work my Tikka. But who cares. I know I care more
about consistent accuracy, more than I care about how the bolt feels when I work
the action.

In Summary, I would probably go with the Savage, for just the point of their
reputation for excellent accuracy out of the box, and in the Accu-Trigger
versions, a trigger that will need no attention by a gunsmith, or the cost of
an after-market improvement. BUT, if the Weatherby Vanguard came at a
better price, or it just felt better in my hands, I would buy it and not look back.

Squeeze

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #11 on:** May 20, 2004, 05:09:49 AM »

Actually---Wal Mart is what kept the Vanguard line alive---Weatherby had dropped the Vanguard line completely---and Wal Mart cut a deal with them.

For a time---Wal Mart was the only place you could get a new Vanguard---unless some shop had hold overs from previous production.

Zachary · « **Reply #12 on:** May 20, 2004, 05:49:11 AM »

As I have said before, which includes other forums, it's hard to explain good quality = good accuracy when it comes to Savage.

I have handled many Savage bolt-action models, and I stand my ground when I say that their quality is not that great. I say this, in part, because of the way the action feels sloppy when you work it. Honestly, I could care less how ugly or pretty a rifle looks. I just want it to be of good quality and shoot great. Also, as some of you might be surprised, I really don't find the Savage to be all that ugly either - it looks fine to me.

The thing is, regardless of how I rate the quality of the Savage, they seem to all be real shooters. I consider myself to be a fair person, and I don't have any interest in one make over another. I try to buy different makes so that I can give real hand experience comments.

Someone raised a very valid and reasonable question, if a gun is of poor quality, how can it shoot so great? Well, that's one of the difficult things to explain. Generally, good quality yields good accuracy, but not always. By way of example, there was an article some time ago where the rifle cost well over $2,000 - maybe in the 3 grand range. Guess what? The Savage, at well under $500, outshot the super expensive "super high-quality" rifle.

No, I can't explain it. And I respect every Savage owner just like I respect every gun owner in general. To me, I support hunting, which means I support gun rights, so I don't care what make people shoot as long as they shoot. And also, I really want people to be happy with what they shoot - to really, really enjoy themselves. And if people are really happy with their Savages, then by all means God Bless them.

Zachary

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #13 on:** May 20, 2004, 08:59:41 AM »

Accuracy is big part of rifle performance---but there are just intangible things that make a quality rifle---no---Savage is not a quality rifle----good shooter or not----and the action is horrible.

If you own one and are happy with it- more power to ya. To each his own.

My buddy owns a Savage---and Walther P22---he's more than happy and always talks them up----I just see couple pieces of crap and will never own either one. Again---to each his own.

shoot'n hogs · « **Reply #14 on:** May 20, 2004, 10:10:57 AM »

Of course savage could tighten their standards. But when that happens what else happens, the price goes up. It's a great rifle for the price. For those who are on a tight budget and pressed for money, I hope you know that you just bought a piece of crap. (stated from others, not my words) Wouldn't want to feed my family w/ a rifle that is a piece of crap.
I'm sure that it wouldn't propel the projectile out the barrel as would a weatherby.

azshooter · « **Reply #15 on:** May 21, 2004, 04:25:18 AM »

The Vanguard is a nice gun. I have shot my dads in 22-250 many times. The trigger on his is a lawerproof however. I would guess it to be in the six lb range. The shooting, price and exceptional trigger are why my vote is for savage.

oldelkhunter · « **Reply #16 on:** May 21, 2004, 09:26:39 AM »

I think the reason Savages shoot so well is they take their time rifling the barrel properly and they are free floated. Their bores couldn't be any rougher then if they were sandblasted . The guns are pillar bedded as well and the barrel locknut will give all their guns consistent headspace . On the other hand their bolt is not fieldstrippable and has more pieces then Carter has liver pills. Their bottom metal is cheap and their stocks are cheap. They are just ugly rifles and hold absolutely no appeal for me. They will however shoot extremely well. If that is your only criteria in a rifle fine but handling,functionality and overall build quality mean a lot more to me.

hkg3k · « **Reply #17 on:** May 21, 2004, 12:24:12 PM »

For me, reliability comes before anything else, then accuracy a close 2nd. Everything else is fluff. Admittedly, I do not currently own a Savage rifle. I have had one in the past which I took on a trade and immediately sold. I did not scope or have a chance to shoot the rifle. The quality of the rifle was more than adequate for its functional requirements. I don't hear anyone yelling about Savage rifles being unreliable.........so to me, the quality is in their reliability and accuracy. Period. Anything else can be changed to fit the individual shooter.

Same thing with military weapons.......which in many cases are built up using the most cost effective techniques (stamped and welded sheetmetal in many cases) but built up nonetheless to be utterly reliable in the most adverse conditions.

If a particular rifle is reliable and above the curve in accuracy, I'd say its a winner, regardless of which company built it.

Muddyboots · « **Reply #18 on:** May 22, 2004, 03:02:19 PM »

Just for thought, I just held a Vanguard in 300 WSM at local gun shop so they are getting out to shops other than Wally's World. I would go with Savage for another reason, barrel change out is pretty quick and easy so if you wanted to swap factory barrel out for Shilen, it is pretty easy task for any gunsmith with minimal charge. Barrel nut is ugly but effective as hell.
Muddy

mountainview · « **Reply #19 on:** May 22, 2004, 07:38:56 PM »

Hard to go wrong with either, both are good firearms.

Decide which one feels better for you since in the end YOU are going to be the one shooting it. Poor fit and feel will not help your groups or accuracy no matter how many sub MOA targets the manufacturer includes in the box or reports from others that they routinely group 3 in a hole smaller than the actual projectile diameter.

Price and budget are issues with me as well and has a lot to do with why 3 Savages sit in in my cabinet. For the money, Savage is the best in its price range even though I don't think there are a lot of other new centerfire rifles in that same $$ range. For a lot of us sporting enthusiasts who can't afford to routinely toss down a lot of shekels and would rather spend time at the range than saving for years to get a pricier firearm, Savage provides an excellent product.

Both firearms are excellent and while each has some advantages and disadvantages, I would not hesitate to get either or both as truth be known I would rather buy 2 firearms rather than 1 anytime.

rickyp · « **Reply #20 on:** May 23, 2004, 08:28:24 AM »

If i am looking for a "working" gun I don't care how it looks or how one person interprets sloppiness. I only care that it shoots well.

I have a savage model 10-pf-le2 and I agree it is not the smoothest bolt I have used but is to me it is about in the same as most of the ones I have seen today. The one i have has the new accutrigger and I love it I had a Remington 700 adl and it would not shoot worth a hoot. the savage I got is not even broken or sighted in yet and it is already shooting better then the 700 adl ever did

think about it this way: what good is a smooth rifle if it will not shoot well (or will with only with 1-2 special loads)

you wold be hard pressed to find a better rifle then the savage model 110 or 113 kit that is sold at sports authority. ( hard case rifle scope mounts and sling) for about $350

varmit_master · « **Reply #21 on:** May 25, 2004, 10:18:56 PM »

Hi my dad and my friend has the Vanguard from Walmart and they came with the paper work and the target where they was shot and i reload for both of them and they are some good grouping rifles i am waiting for them to get one in a 257 wby Vanguard at Walmart because i am going to get one VM

vernonp · « **Reply #22 on:** May 27, 2004, 12:12:25 PM »

I know nothing about the Savage from personal use but, they must have great barrells. That is where the accuracy comes from and everyone seems to agree that they are very accurate. I do not think I would pick a Savage action to put a Shilen barrell on. The barrell seems to be the only good thing about the rifle.

VFC-13 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 02, 2004, 05:58:56 AM »

I happen to own both ..I have a Savage 110 in .308 and a weatherby Vanguard in .270 IMHO both guns are great! they both can keep up with much higher priced rifles accuracy wise.....great hunting guns!

Buckfever · « **Reply #24 on:** October 02, 2004, 01:58:14 PM »

This gun cost $205, stainless, Synthetic. It is a great carry gun and is accurate as hell. However, I have a weakness for Tikka's and CZ's. Hey it's just me, the fit the feel, how they come up, and so on. I am 56 so why not spoil myself. But if I was getting into hunting or had lots of places for my money to go, KIDS!, BILLS!, I would get a Savage and never look back. If the Highpower are anything like this .17HMR they "Getter Done", like Larry the Cable guy says. I really don't think the game knows the difference!!!! Buckfever

MGMorden · « **Reply #25 on:** October 02, 2004, 03:24:07 PM »

I've got a Savage (110 in .30-06) myself, and I find it to be a great gun. It'll do sub-MOA at 100 all day long. If your main goal is to be actually shooting the gun (be it at targets or game), then as said above, reliability and accuracy are paramount, and the Savages excel in those areas.

handirifle · « **Reply #26 on:** October 02, 2004, 07:16:07 PM »

I say pick the one that feels best to you when you put it to your shoulder. I have had two Savages, a 243 and currently a 20 yr old 30-06. Two days ago it shot 2 groups for a final check up before my elk hunt in two weeks. One measured .610 center to center and the other, 1.112. Not bad for a poor quality rifle.

Would I compare a Savage to my son's Rem 700BDL 30-06? No way but it will shoot side by side any day of the year.

Again, get what feels best to you. Work the action, at the shoulder and off. I doubt either one will ever let you down.

A Ruger #1 is a higher quality rifle than my H&R Ultra Varmint, 223, but if the Ruger shoots better than 1/2" groups at 100yds then I hope the owner is happy to have paid three times as much for it.

I'll be getting a 243 in the near future and IF it is a bolt gun, it will be a Savage.

My 30-06, I'll convert myself to a 338-06 this summer. Then it will be Varmint, deer and elk. All bases covered and for less than $1,000 total. Not bad I think.

jjenkins · « **Reply #27 on:** October 03, 2004, 02:05:41 PM »

i own a vanguard in 7mm rem. mag. it shoots great but not as good as my savage 110 30-06 i don't buy guns because they look good i want a shooter and the savage is definitely a shooter and a little cheaper.you wont go wrong with either one. BUT IF YOU WANT A TACK DRIVER OUT OF THE BOX BUY A TIKKA!!!

nipprdog · « **Reply #28 on:** October 04, 2004, 02:11:31 PM »

Quote from: VFC-13

I happen to own both ..I have a Savage 110 in .308 and a weatherby Vanguard in .270 IMHO both guns are great! they both can keep up with much higher priced rifles accuracy wise.....great hunting guns!

the original post was 5 months ago. wonder if he made a decision by now?

RamJohn · « **Reply #29 on:** October 04, 2004, 05:41:13 PM »

I kinda see it like this:
buying a gun is like buying a truck...sure you can have a top of the line 4x4 that makes all your friends drool...or you can have a not-so-top-of-the-line "work truck" that's not as pretty on the outside and doesn't have all the bells and whistles...but gets the job done just the same...for less money.
IMHO...overpriced "Gucci Guns" are a status symbol...wooptie doo..if you got the money to throw away..go for it...I and alot of others DON'T. Common sense tells me if I can get something AS GOOD OR BETTER for less money...then thats not a hard choice...

get the Savage...you won't be sorry.....