Barrel-Frame Compatability Issues...

[DanM]

This is a follow up to my earlier posting on the old forum as Crowzapper.
I recently received a replacement frame from TC, but none of my barrels
(all S14s) will fire on it, as the hammer block does not retract. I now know that this is caused by locking lugs of the wrong length. Well, They sent me some new lugs that also would not work. I am now resigned to dismounting my scopes and sending all to TC for fitting.
What I would like is an explanation of the 'evolution' of TC barrels and locking lugs. All of my barrel lugs are two piece, but some have the floating cross pin, and some do not. All worked on my old frame. I understand that some early barrels have a one piece lug that is not split at all.
I am wondering if every time I buy a barrel, will I have to send it and my new frame to TC to make it work? I want to buy an older octagonal barrel or two, but would hate having to part with my frame every time I purchase a barrel. Can old style barrels always be made to work on very new frames, or should I stick to newer barrels?
Is there some way to be sure which lugs to ask for from TC? Supposedly the ones they just sent me are the oversized type, but they don't work. Where is the measurement taken? Do you mike the lugs across the two flat faces, fore and aft, or from the step to the rear face?
Probably, this has all been covered before I started visiting this forum, so maybe someone can direct me to an existing answer. Maybe there is a table somewhere that answers barrel/frame compatability issues?
Thanks in advance....DanM

[Graybeard]

The problem clearly lies with the frame and not the barrels. Once it is fixed you should have no more trouble with other barrels. I suspect oversize bolts are just the opposite of what was needed. It would appear to be too tight since it is so new. I've also heard it said that the tension on the screw that you can get to with grip off, the one that has the spring around it, that goes thru the trigger guard can also cause this if the tension on it is too tight. Can't verify it as I've never had it happen to me but it might be worth backing off on the tension a bit just to see.

GB

[Paladin]

I had a barrell like that, a 35 rem I believe, there is a swelvel under the hammer block that the barrel locks need to align so the hammer block can move out of the way. the barrel locks go under the frame of the tc and locks the barrel in place and turn the lock so the hammer block will move out of the hammer's way. I ground the locks off until the hammer block would drop out of the way. If it was one barrel I'd say try this, personaly I would ask tc to trade me frames and hope I get one that works. If you send the frame and barrels to tc they will make the barrels work on the frame no problem, but any new barrels(old or new) won't work with out being sent to tc.
      GOOD LUCK



have gun will travel

[Ladobe]

Another possibility with a post fire frame, especially one made in the last 3+ years.....

T/C changed the breech face in the Contender frames, where the barrels lugs lock-up, to a spot welded-in piece about 3 years ago.   Their idea was that since this is the wear spot, by having it replaceable when frames eventually wore to the point that + lugs couldn't tighten loose lock ups anymore, the piece could simply be replaced.   Sounds like a good idea on paper, but with T/C's poor quality control, misaligned or poorly welded blocks can prevent barrel lockup altogether, or even allow a lockup that can't be released except by driving the hinge pin out.

How do I know???   Been there!   A brand new frame purchased 2 months prior to the 2000 SHOT show had slipped through without the new block welded in at all.   It locked up so tight with a favored wildcat barrel that it eventually took extreme force driving the hinge pin out to get it back apart.  

Luckily, Jim Henry (Mr. Contender) was in town to attend the show, and came out to our local range the day before to "tune" any of the IHMSA shooters T/C's that needed it - he took my what I thought was permantly locked up barrel/frame and did manage to get it apart for me.   He then met me at the T/C booth next morning at the show, with the stripped frame, and we both had Tim Pancurak for lunch!   What became a long story short, it took Tim and T/C nearly 3 1/2 months to return my repaired frame.   So, my last "new" frame went nearly 6 months without firing a shot.

As the final straw with the negatively resumed post fire company, I decided to never support them again (after nearly 30 years as a loyal customer).   Sold off every TC barrel, scope, grip/stock set and most of the frames I owned, including all of my Encore line.    Was nearly 90 items, and have never looked back.

Rant mode off, you might check your frame to see if the new style breech block is welded mis-aligned, installed upside down (yeah, really!), not welded at all, etc.   Any could possibly prevent your barrels from locking up.

HTH

[Graybeard]

Ladobe, are you then saying you do not own that Contender carbine with the oak stock set and BB .17 HRM barrel you keep showing us?

GB

[Ladobe]

GB -

If you'll re-read what I wrote in my post, I said "most of the frames I owned".  I have too many favored wildcat Bullberry and SSK barrels to get completely out of Contenders, so I kept 2 frames.   All the rest of my "C" frames, factory barrels, wood, scopes, and all of the Encores I had went away, and I have no interest in buying another T/C factory product.   I do however still add wildcat BBW and SSK barrels.

Yes, I do own the Bullberry No.1 Carbine.   Fred made the special stock set to commemorate it being the first HRM.  He spoils me rotten by making all my custom wood in exhibition grade, and from his private stash of unusual wood.   Another example - when you go to the Bullberry web site, that Screwbean Mesquite - Birdseye Maple pistola he has pictured on the home page was made for me too (its even my picture of it).
















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[DanM]

Thanks for the information guys. I sent the whole kit and kaboodle off to TC on Monday. I did check the trigger guard spring and screw for alignment and it was fine. The breech face looks exactly like my older frame with no welds visible. I put a note in asking the 'smith to call me when he gets into it. Hopefully he will pinpoint the problem for me. I am always frustrated after receiving an expensive piece of equiptment back from service and not being told what the problem was. That happens to me a lot with camera equiptment. Thanks again....DanM

[Rick99]

Hi,

Just found the Forum and would like to hear more on the transition that DanM originally asked about. I am having the reverse problem. I have an older frame and 3 early barrels with the solid locking lugs. I just bought a used .22 barrel with the split lugs and floating cross pin (not sure if the terms are correct). As with DanM, the lugs are not deactivating the hammer block so it will not fire. What do I need to do? Is this a typical problem with mixing old and new? Are there different types of locking lugs that cause problems? Why the changes? Can you tell when a barrel was made by the type of lug it has?

Thanks,
 

[Graybeard]

Rick99, it would be best to start a new thread for your problem rather than having it buried down at the bottom of an old thread.

GB