Author Topic: 45 GAP beats 45 ACP  (Read 3383 times)

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Offline Mikey

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« on: March 31, 2004, 09:45:05 AM »
I think I'm gonna puke.  Someone please tell me this is just another case of the 308 vs the 30-06, the 7mm-08 vs the 7x57 or the 6.5 Swede vs the 260.  Honest to God, I'm getting sick of all this nonsense.  And, unfortunately, those who read that new shooting times article are not going to realize that whatever you got now out of either the 40 S&W or the 45 GAP is all you are going to get, while the ACP round still has a lot more to offer the handloader.  But, I guess that's the way liability rules are going these days.  

Skreu it - I'm getting a 49 maginum fully avtomatika revolving semi-automagic in 90 something caliber that shoots half a 12 gauge slug capable of taking aircraft out of the air without being detected by satellite imagery, and all the while concealable as all get out.  Then we're gonna have a 45 plus 4 more that's more powerful than (what, I dunno) almost anything else, maybe.  

Nutz, I think I'm gonna have a hairball.  Mikey.

Offline ButlerFord45

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2004, 02:14:54 PM »
Ya know, the really unfortunate part is the unbelievable number of people that believe as gospel the spew that comes from gunrag hacks.  I guess that's why I don't know anything, I don't read them.

Is this the one where ya take a 45 acp, reduce the case capacity and get more performance?  

Sounds like democrat Physics
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Offline BamBams

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2004, 03:35:54 PM »
I agree with Butler Ford.  I HAVE to read them in order to be able to "relate" to my customers, but I definitely read them ad nauseum.  Oh, if you've got $3000.00 laying around, I can get you a 1911 in ".50 ACP."
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Offline Questor

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2004, 02:36:28 AM »
No Mikey, it's not just a 308 vs 30-06 argument. It's a short action 308 vs long action 30-06 argument. ;-)

I like the concept of putting a 45 into a more compact gun. I wonder what Kahr can come up with.
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Offline XP1900

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2004, 07:54:14 AM »
the 45gap has caused some problems.  i read where some guy went into a gunshop and wanted to buy some 45acp.  the guy behind the counter grabbed a box of 45gap and sold it to the guy.  well he never noticed that is was gap instead of acp.  he started shooting it and was having ejection problems.  not beening to smart he went ahead and kept on shooting.  before he finished the box he had seriously damaged the gun.  the 2 rounds are to close in size, but can cause some big problems.

Offline Questor

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2004, 08:01:38 AM »
I think it could be a problem for people unfamiliar with guns, but I've seen the cartridges and it doesn't register as a 45ACP at all.  Even empty cases aren't a problem because they look more like 9mm luger cases than 45acp cases.
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Offline seanwall

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2004, 05:14:45 PM »

Just another oversized and overpowered round for the uninformed masses,much like the Desert Eagle 50 and the S&W 500, when will people learn that a larger bullet or higher velocity will not compensate for practice and the ability to hit what you aim at. : :x  :x

Offline Dave in WV

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2004, 08:49:49 AM »
The GAP probably does have a place in the scheme of things. The cartridge can be marketed places the 45 ACP can't. Even if the GAP is a close second it can't be all bad. The article stating the GAP beats the ACP is based on 4.49" barrels. A Gov't model beats the GAP. Also the GAP is hurt by the "short fat thing" for feeding reliability. The feed ramp geometry has to be just right or it jams. Me, I'll keep my '06 and 45 ACP.
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Offline bobthenailer

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unfar test of the 45acp vrs the 45 gap
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2004, 03:45:49 AM »
i beleive the test were tilted in the 45 gap favor, the gap was loaded to a higher chamber pressure than the 45 acp ammo, they should of used + p  ammo for the test ,and the gap was loaded with a special powder, i wounder how the 45acp would perform if it was loaded with this special powder ?

Offline MI VHNTR

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2004, 04:09:11 PM »
If you really want to play pressure games, compare the 45 GAP to either the 45 Super or the 450 SMC. There is NO comparison. The 45 Super and 450 SMC are considerably faster/more powerful. 45 ACP wins. MI VHNTR
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Offline Mikey

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bobthenailer
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2004, 04:08:12 AM »
bob:  if you handload the 45 acp it will outshine the 45 gap, period.  As mentioned in one of the posts, the 45 gap, like the 40 S&W, is a high pressure cartridge than the standard pressure older ones like the acp rounds.  Any Lyman manual, or VV-Oy or maybe even some of the load maps will show you that the 45 acp can go where the gap can't in terms of sending out a heavier bullet at faster velocities.  

The gap didn't use any special powders, I believe, they simply used faster burning powders at the upper pressure levels to attain the velocities from the shorter case it uses.  That's what limits the 40 S&W and the 45 gap when compared to the 10mm and the 45 acp.  Just my 2 cents worth.  Mikey.

Offline legacy38

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2004, 02:47:44 PM »
The GAP will make it simply because Glock is marketing it.  They took over the police market by practically giving Glocks to departments all across the country while still making a profit.  Then they repeated the process by doing it all over again with the .40auto guns to replace 9mm.  Pretty soon, they will start doing the same with the GAP pistols.  The Orange County, FL, Sheriff's Office is supposedly considering the switch which would make them the first "large" department to do so.

I'm not saying that it's better.  I'm just saying that it will survive.

Offline Shane in WI

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2004, 11:30:53 AM »
A friend was shooting the 45 GAP ammo out of his Kimber last night and having problems ejecting the spent brass.  Wasn't until I picked up the brass and looked at it that I noticed the difference.  I guess Gander sold him the GAP ammo by mistake.  Exactly what can happen when they are fired in a standard 45 ACP gun?  Could the ammo "tumble" on the way to the lands?  He thought there were problems with both kinds of ammo, but it would of been after firing a 1/2 box of the GAP through his gun.  The brass seems to be an 1/8" shorter than the acp.
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Offline MGMorden

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2004, 07:50:29 PM »
Quote from: seanwall

Just another oversized and overpowered round for the uninformed masses,much like the Desert Eagle 50 and the S&W 500, when will people learn that a larger bullet or higher velocity will not compensate for practice and the ability to hit what you aim at. : :x  :x


Some people just like the big bang and recoil.  Heck I don't own one (and I don't use handguns for anything other than range shooting for fun), but I'll admit that a .50 S&W would be fun to shoot a round or two every once and a while with  :wink: .

Offline Deaf Smith

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I don't know while I don't vare for the 45 gap I do like
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2004, 06:52:13 PM »
all the new 50 caliber handgun rounds. after all we always have been the place of bigger is better and the 50 acp sounds pretty neat! After at least its on a 1911 platform. I kinds like the idea of the 500 S&W too what the hey if it works why not. I still shoot a 50/70 gov't rifle. and would buy a barrel for my contender if it was not so expensive. Not for a plinker anyway.
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Offline Redhawk1

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2004, 08:35:53 PM »
Quote from: seanwall

Just another oversized and overpowered round for the uninformed masses,much like the Desert Eagle 50 and the S&W 500, when will people learn that a larger bullet or higher velocity will not compensate for practice and the ability to hit what you aim at. : :x  :x



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Offline seanwall

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2004, 03:50:56 PM »
Redhawk, bigger is not better. I personally know 2 shooters that have injured there wrists shooting this oversized and overpowered gun, there is a point where a gun can be to large, and S&W has crossed that line here. If you really think that you need to make that big of a hole use a shotgun or high powered rifle.

Offline Deaf Smith

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The Red hawk as a 44 magnum is a great gun and I can't see
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2004, 04:07:17 PM »
how shooting one could injure your wrist in 44 magnum it kicks leee than a slightly smaller model 29/629 and even is 45 colt it still recoils less than other guns due to its weight. It was and is not chambered in any really big bbomer of a cartridge to even compare to the 500 S&W. You need to clarify your statement as it stands it makes no sence at all. I can't see how a 44 magnum even a full load can or could hurt anyone unless they were standing in front of it. Please clarify your statement.
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Offline Questor

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2004, 04:26:59 PM »
I get a kick out of these magazine writers. The only real advantage of the GAP is that it's a better choice if you want a smaller gun. That could be important to some people, but that's the only real difference.
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Offline paladyn

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2004, 08:47:31 AM »
I think it's another typical PR story where Glock has blinded them, or slipped a little extra cash into someone's pocket to glorify the GAP.
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Offline Old Griz

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2004, 07:32:38 PM »
:cb2: Hey, those full page Glock ads bring in lots of bucks.  Ya gotta keep the money guys happy. After all, how many times do you ever hear anything really negative about any gun in the magazines? Even when it is, they sugar coat it.

If Glock had simply made a single stack, full sized gun they would have sold a ton of them. But as it is they want me to buy something (.45 GAP) that duplicates what is already there (.45 ACP) but pay more for the ammo if I can even find it anywhere at all. That's about as sharp as a bowling ball to me.

What I really hate is that they will probably keep pushing this dead horse for years (never admitting it was a mistake) instead of making the gun in .45 ACP.
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Offline twodollarpistol

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Re: The Red hawk as a 44 magnum is a great gun and I can't s
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2004, 12:37:48 AM »
Quote from: Deaf Smith
how shooting one could injure your wrist in 44 magnum it kicks leee than a slightly smaller model 29/629 and even is 45 colt it still recoils less than other guns due to its weight. It was and is not chambered in any really big bbomer of a cartridge to even compare to the 500 S&W. You need to clarify your statement as it stands it makes no sence at all. I can't see how a 44 magnum even a full load can or could hurt anyone unless they were standing in front of it. Please clarify your statement.
Jim L


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Offline paladyn

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2004, 10:52:25 AM »
Quote from: Old Griz
:cb2: But as it is they want me to buy something (.45 GAP) that duplicates what is already there (.45 ACP) but pay more for the ammo if I can even find it anywhere at all. That's about as sharp as a bowling ball to me.
Quote


I agree. I'm not buying any weapon that uses specialized ammo I can't get at any shop.
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Offline glenn asher

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2004, 11:56:05 AM »
I've met Dick Metcalf, the jassack who wrote that drivel. He has written so many lies he can't remember them all. After having met him, I wouldn't believe a damned thing he writes, even if he's just signing his name.

Offline mlaubner

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2004, 07:31:18 PM »
Glock is merely creating a solution to a problem that does not exist!
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Offline Mikey

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2004, 01:57:43 AM »
Hay glenn asher - I feel the same about dean grenell.  Guess there are a buncha buttsniffs in the gun writing business.  And I like what most of you have agreed with - the 45 gap is a solution to a non-existent problem.  Now I don't hafta puke.  Thanks.  Mikey.

Offline Questor

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2004, 03:51:30 AM »
I like the 45GAP. I think it's a good idea.  But something troubles me about it: It seems to me that one of the main reasons for the acceptance of the 9mm is that most people could not shoot a 45 well enough to be effective with it.  Since the 45GAP is the ballistic equivalent of the 45ACP, aren't we back to square one in that regard?  I also note that people with small hands, like petite women, simply put slim grips on their 1911s to get a better fit for themselves.  


I look forward to seeing its acceptance and use.  Hopefully good things will come of it.
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Offline Don Dick

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2004, 05:44:50 AM »
I am surprised this tread in on Graybeard.  Since when do we have to justify any handgun purchase?  Why bad mouth the 500 and 45 GAP?
Does Mr Glock not deserve to have one caliber bearing his name for what Glock has done for the handgun industry?  As to the 500 S&W if you don`t want one don`t buy it.  To me its a symbol S&W is back to its original stature in the gun industry.
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Offline IntrepidWizard

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2004, 05:48:50 AM »
Good points all,but if it ain't broke don't fix it.The 45 acp is what it is as is the 30-30 and many others.If you want a new caliber make a new weapon to handle it.I think all the Gun Mag. have gone way off the chart.
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Offline SBEACH

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45 GAP beats 45 ACP
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2004, 09:22:33 AM »
I believe that most of the problems that people had with shooting the 45acp was simply not learning how to shoot it correctly. I was reading an article by Jeff Cooper ane he was saying that most of the problems were not with the round, but they simply were not training people to use it correctly. When the 9mm started to have issues for stopping power back in the late 80's one of the cartridges that got a reassessment was the 45 acp and they learned what many had been saying. It's not the round its the training. Now that there has been a resurgence in the 45 it was only inevitable that someone would try to make it more compact. Oh, got to go out shooting a while back. There was a glock 9mm and a kimber 45. Guess which I was most comfortable shooting. Yep, the 45.