The Non Biblical, Mythical Rapture

[Dee]

As created by John Nelson Darby in 1830, with the help of a then new age bible creator, one Charles
Schofield.

https://bible.ca/rapture-origin-john-nelson-darby-1830ad.htm

https://christianitybeliefs.org/end-times-deceptions/the-pre-tribulation-rapture-myth/

[Mule 11]

I personally don’t buy into it, many do.

[Graybeard]

I personally cannot read into the scripture that it is a real thing. Not sure why it is so widely believed that the Bible says it.

I also can't buy into the flood story as true either. Not to say a flood didn't happen locally but two of every animal on the planet in a boat that size? No way.

[Dee]

Theres nuthin in the Bible about a rapture. If you didn't read the link on John Darby, he is the guy that made the story/doctrine up back in the 1830s. The Baptists jumped on it like a duck on a junebug, along with the Schofield bible (little  b).
The mythical rapture doctrine gets already easily led folks excited to the point that they'll believe scripture pointed out to them to back  it up, that is obviously twisted out of shape.
So-called Bible scholars are like astronomers. They want to find something nobody else has seen. John Nelson Darby, and Charles Schofield were no different.

[JeffG]

I read the "Left Behind" series of books. It was a good novel.

[Dee]

I watched 2 or 3 of the Left Behind series, and found them entertaining, but considered it fictional.

[ironglowz]

  I on the other hand, have no problem with the doctrine..in fact, I endorse it.  I am willing to discuss the term, so long as we can remain polite and civil.

  Yes, some used the English word "rapture" to describe the event (Irving, LaCunza, MacDonald and of course, Darby) . However , this is just the English rendering of the Greek, Harpazo (snatching or gathering up)  or Parousia (presence or arrival).

  First off, the word "rapture' is not found in the Bible..but then again, neither are the words "trinity", "discipleship", "theocracy" or "missionary" found in the Bible, but that doesn't mean they don't exist or are not factual.

  ..And of course the English word "rapture' covers both Jesus' arrival and His gathering up of the saints, to take them away, avoiding the extreme tribulation.

  "..And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." (Matt 24:22)

  The very act of Jesus coming for his own, is well outlined in (1Thess 4:14-18);

    14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

  The rapture (harpazo or parousia) was a doctrine in the very early church..  https://www.pre-trib.org/pretribfiles/pdfs/Ice-ABriefHistoryofTheRapture.pdf

  Among the great pre-trib preachers of today, Darby is rarely if ever mentioned, since he is not of any import to them..only the eager detractors consider him important.

  Many of the Christian Universities endorse the theory..including such as Liberty U. and many others.

  Here, one of the great contemporary preachers of today, Dr David Jeremiah, explains the "rapture".. grab your Bible and prepare to give him a bit of your time, checking him against your Bible.
   
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-utQyuwTlQk

   


 

 

[Bob Riebe]

     Whether  one accepts it or not, it will have zip to do with where one ends up when Jesus calls in all markers.

I do find those : "OH we are in the last days, you better get ready..." babbling as if it takes the end being near for one to -have the supposed  Christian life style,  that one  may have  serious problems, end days near or not.

[Dee]

Matthew 24 verse 22 is speaking of the oppression, and suffering of the jews under Roman rule, and has nuthin to do with the made-up rapture doctrine. When the Roman soldiers were pulled back to Rome, God provided an opportunity for jews to flee Jerusalem, but it was noted that the flight not only required much faith, but the journey was difficult with much suffering. God did not rapture the jews out of danger.
This verse is one of the most twisted verses rapture buffs use trying to support Darbys fairy tale rapture.

[Dee]

1st thessalonians 4 verses 14 through 18, speak NOTHING of a rapture, but is so very clearly speaking of the SECOND COMIN OF CHRIST and the resurrection of those whom died loving Christ. There are NUMEROUS SUPPORTING SCRIPTURES that coincide with these 5 passages, and none support Darbys fantasy.

Ironglowz quote:
Many of the Christian Universities endorse the theory...including such as  Liberty U. and many others.

This is the one thing you've said so far that I agree with, THEROY!

As usual, you have used people to support your beliefs in the rapture theory.

Your university Bible scholars/theorists seldom mention Darby because they want to be considered the Bible experts. To admit that Darby INVENTED THE RAPTURE THEROY between 1830 and 1833, would be admitting that IT WAS INVENTED.
It would also be claiming that Darby was prophecying, and we know what the Bible says about such nonsense.
Here's another Darby revelation. He is also considered: the father of modern Dispensationalism, and Futurism

Chapter and Verse,  there is NOTHING in the Bible speaking of, or indicating a pre-tribulation rapture.

[Something else to consider in this discussion. I don't put any stock, or consideration in what any TV evangelists, or so called Bible scholars think, or believe, on the issue. I consider most of them  panderers, also whom, have been indoctrinated by modern day seminaries. They are simply regugitating what they were taught in modern seminaries. This is the same tactic that catholic priests use when they discourage parishioners from studying the Bible themselves. They teach them that the priests are the biblical authorities. So using these people carries no weight on my considerations. I believe scripture only.
I'm not trying to be contrary,  I just consider the Bible, THE ONLY AUTHORITY[color].

[ironglowz]

  AS I said, i am not going to get in a cat fight about it. I will simply offer scholarly discussions.anmd I only referred to such as a theory, since that seemed to be the best way to reach those who seem to look at it that way.

  You assert;.... " As usual, you have used people to support your beliefs in the rapture theory."

  Now, did you expect me to search out those who are going to be antagonistic !  Nope !  I did just as you did, presenting those who agree with my position.

  ..But it is of no great consequence...if you truly believe and are "born again" (John 3:3)  ... .you will be taken up with other believers.

    Dee says;...  "As usual, you have used people to support your beliefs in the rapture theory."  Really?   ..Did you expect me to cite those who are antagonistic to me?

    Nope !  I did just as you have and utilized those who are in agreement to my position.

  Rather than to provoke a disruptive clash...I would rather close out here..


  Keepin mind, He will come when least expected ... "as a theif in the night"..

[Dee]

I used scripture. Darby is the inventor of this rapture theory. This is going as expected. Many Baptists and others, have accepted this rapture hoax, and have no problem admitting the scriptures at no time mention a rapture, by any other name, or description, but insist something unsaid is in the Bible. I've always found that amazing, to know where something like this came from, but still accept it.
I have posted where, and when, this false doctrine originated, and I've pointed out the scriptures you mentioned in actual context. There's little use in debating, or discussing something that isn't in the Bible just because someone says the scriptures say something, that they actually do not say.
God throughout scripture has promised to save your soul through faith, and grace, but has never promised to jerk your body out from in front of the bus.

[DDZ]

     Whether  one accepts it or not, it will have zip to do with where one ends up when Jesus calls in all markers.

I do find those : "OH we are in the last days, you better get ready..." babbling as if it takes the end being near for one to -have the supposed  Christian life style,  that one  may have  serious problems, end days near or not.

That is kind of where I'm at also. Whether one believes the rapture or not doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things to come.  I have been on the fence over the rapture theory.  One verse that promises Christs believers to be saved from the wrath to come is 1st Thessalonians 1:10.   

and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come." This verse highlights the Thessalonians' faith and hope in Jesus' return and deliverance from God's judgment.

Does this say we will be raptured before the tribulation? Not really, but....it does say believers will be delivered from the wrath to come.
 

[Dee]

     Whether  one accepts it or not, it will have zip to do with where one ends up when Jesus calls in all markers.

I do find those : "OH we are in the last days, you better get ready..." babbling as if it takes the end being near for one to -have the supposed  Christian life style,  that one  may have  serious problems, end days near or not.

That is kind of where I'm at also. Whether one believes the rapture or not doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things to come.  I have been on the fence over the rapture theory.  One verse that promises Christs believers to be saved from the wrath to come is 1st Thessalonians 1:10.   

and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come." This verse highlights the Thessalonians' faith and hope in Jesus' return and deliverance from God's judgment.

Does this say we will be raptured before the tribulation? Not really, but....it does say believers will be delivered from the wrath to come.

Yes, it speaks of Christ's second coming and the resurrection of those dead in Christ. The Beama Seat of Christ, vs The White Throne of Judgement. The 2 are separate.

I don't really disagree with you that believing, or not believing in this rapture theory will make a difference, but I do see it as a distortion of scripture to prove something conjured up by an individual that has been inserted into doctrine with zero scripture to make it real.

[ironglowz]

   So long as we can agree on the fundamentals, there is little need to consider other factors as monumental. We can disagree without being disagreeable..

  This fellow lists the fundamentals, I would only add that he missed one point.. that being, THE DIETY OF CHRIST !

    https://ramblingeveron.com/2016/09/23/the-five-fundamentals-of-christianity/

[Dixie-Dude]

Along with 1st Thessalonians the Church is not mentioned after the 4th Chapter of Revelation.  It mentions alot about Overcoming.  Thus the "Rapture" may be limited to Christians who are prayed up, doing God's will and ready to go.  I can see three raptures in Revelation.  Overcomers first.  Then in the middle of Tribulation the woman who is representative of the church is taken to safety.  Then the man child who represents the remaining Christians is taken to safety.  The Jews are also going to realize who Christ is in the middle of Tribulation and turn to Him and be persecuted. 

Why would we meet the Lord in the air after our bodily resurrection.  We are to return with Jesus to set up His earthly kingdom at the end of the Tribulation.  We may be in training sessions while waiting to return.  We are to rule and reign with Jesus with a rod of iron over whoever is left on earth. 

The word Rapture is not used, but "caught up" is and other information is given.  So yeah, I believe in the Rapture as Ironglow. 

[Dee]

I've noticed over the years that people in general seek the easy way out of just about everything. The Baptists (and others) have their rapture theory as a means of escape any suffering while others, are left to it.
The catholic have their purgatory, just in case their caught sinning when they cash in.
After a lot of scripture twisting, turning, and wringing, both religions can imagine both man made theories into their imagined realities.
Meanwhile, the Bible just sits there, and says what it says, not  mentioning either, with a myriad of other man made doctrines attempted to be crammed into scripture, where they don't fit. I've come to notice that All denominations have their own individual whimses/doctrines, and each one is absolutely right, and everyone else is absolutely wrong. I wonder which one I am?

I also wonder why Christs 12 disciples all died such horrible deaths, but the Christians of today will be spared the tribulation. 

[Lloyd Smale]

i have to agree. both the rapture and purgatory are not bible based they were make believe story's concocted by man.

I've noticed over the years that people in general seek the easy way out of just about everything. The Baptists (and others) have their rapture theory as a means of escape any suffering while others, are left to it.
The catholic have their purgatory, just in case their caught sinning when they cash in.
After a lot of scripture twisting, turning, and wringing, both religions can imagine both man made theories into their imagined realities.
Meanwhile, the Bible just sits there, and says what it says, not  mentioning either, with a myriad of other man made doctrines attempted to be crammed into scripture, where they don't fit. I've come to notice that All denominations have their own individual whimses/doctrines, and each one is absolutely right, and everyone else is absolutely wrong. I wonder which one I am?

I also wonder why Christs 12 disciples all died such horrible deaths, but the Christians of today will be spared the tribulation. 

[ironglowz]

     So long as we can agree on the fundamentals, there is little need to consider other factors as monumental. We can disagree without being disagreeable..

    "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain"  (Titus 3:9) 

[Lloyd Smale]

This is the same tactic that catholic priests use when they discourage parishioners from studying the Bible themselves

WOW!! talk about not having a clue!!  walk into any catholic church and youll find bibles free for the taking. my parents sat down with us twice a week to read the bible. did yours??? by the way us kids hated it!! there are probably billions of bibles in catholic homes. what we dont do is read into scripture meanings that are not there to look like some bible scholar. the bible is actually pretty obvious in its teaching and the fact that half the christian population of the world believes not the priest but the plane words in the bible should at least make you consider maybe your overthinking or just plain wrong. after all the catholic church is who compiled all these scriptures into the book you read in the bible and weve been studying it a bit longer than you.

[Dee]

     So long as we can agree on the fundamentals, there is little need to consider other factors as monumental. We can disagree without being disagreeable..

    "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain"  (Titus 3:9) 

Revelation Chapter 22 verses 18-19 adding meaning to scripture that is not there is perilous indeed.

[ironglowz]

     Whether  one accepts it or not, it will have zip to do with where one ends up when Jesus calls in all markers.

I do find those : "OH we are in the last days, you better get ready..." babbling as if it takes the end being near for one to -have the supposed  Christian life style,  that one  may have  serious problems, end days near or not.

...Never said we are  in the last days..only suggested that we could be. We will not know for sure..until He comes "like a thief in the night".

  Real believers should be alert and looking for signs.. (Matt 16:2-3)

    ..And so far as being ready, we are cautioned to be ready, because He will come when least expected. (Matt 25:1-10)