The Trump Gestopo

[Dee]

Governor Tim Waltz says ICE in unmarked vans, pull up beside citizens and snatch them up, and send them off to foriegn dungeons. They don't even get to say goodbye to their loved ones. 

[GTS225]

And how might that be different from their native countries?

Personally, I DON'T CARE.  They are in this country illegally, and that's cause enough.

Roger.....just another grumpy, old, opinionated S.O.B.

(In hindsight, I shouldn't have even responded to this.  The words of Tim Waltz carries so little weight after seeing him run "his" state damn near into the ground.)

[darkgael]

“ They are in this country illegally,”
Doesn’t matter. They are entitled to due process by the 14th amendment.

[moamonkey]

Right. So, if I broke into someone’s house, got caught and was apprehended by police, are they supposed to take me by my family’s house to say goodbye before being incarcerated? What a sweet, sweet thought. And these sweet, sweet thoughts are one reason the blue states and cities are the cesspools of the country.

[Lloyd Smale]

maybe we should give them all a grand so they can have a going away party

[Dee]

“ They are in this country illegally,”
Doesn’t matter. They are entitled to due process by the 14th amendment.

What a wrapped understanding/misunderstanding you have of the Constitution. You have no comprehension of a document that governs the country I assume you grew up in?

The Constitution protects the rights of CITIZENS.

If you've actually read the 14th Amendment, your reading comprehension is either atrocious, your too stupid
to understand what it says, or your simply trolling.

On a more positive note, I'm truly thankful that you had no part in educating my kids, and grand kids, as you are for whatever reason, a disaster in the realm of any noticeable common sense. 

[Graybeard]

AMENDMENT XIV

Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2.
Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5.
The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

[Dee]

Let's simplify the 14th Amendment

The 14th Amendment to the US Constitution, ratified in 1868 grants citizenship to all persons BORN OR NATURALIZED IN THE UNITED STATES and ensures that no state can deny any person equal protection under the law or deprive them of life, liberty, or property without due process.
It was a key part of the Reconstruction Amendments aimed at securing rights for formerly enslaved individuals.

It had nothing to do then, or now, with ILLEGAL ALIENS.

[Bob Riebe]

“ They are in this country illegally,”
Doesn’t matter. They are entitled to due process by the 14th amendment.

Legal Loopholes:
.
While undocumented immigrants have constitutional rights, some legal loopholes exist. For example, they might not be entitled to a lawyer in deportation cases, as the government is not obligated to provide counsel in such cases

    Take them to court without a lawyer , let them babble and kick them out.

[Dee]

“ They are in this country illegally,”
Doesn’t matter. They are entitled to due process by the 14th amendment.

Legal Loopholes:
.
While undocumented immigrants have constitutional rights, some legal loopholes exist. For example, they might not be entitled to a lawyer in deportation cases, as the government is not obligated to provide counsel in such cases

    Take them to court without a lawyer , let them babble and kick them out.

Please show us in the Constitution where illegal aliens (undocumented immigrants) have constitutional rights.

[darkgael]

Dee: Always fun to have a polite discussion with you.
Your interpretation of the rights and protections afforded by the 14th amendment is deeply flawed. There is a tremendous amount of information available for you to read….which you should probably do before you criticize someone else’s understanding.
Nothing to do with illegal aliens? Both the due process clause and the equal protection clauses afforded protection to all people regardless of their citizenship.
SCOTUS has consistently held “that non citizens, including “illegal aliens” are protected by the Constitution.

[Dee]

Dee: Always fun to have a polite discussion with you.
Your interpretation of the rights and protections afforded by the 14th amendment is deeply flawed. There is a tremendous amount of information available for you to read….which you should probably do before you criticize someone else’s understanding.
Nothing to do with illegal aliens? Both the due process clause and the equal protection clauses afforded protection to all people regardless of their citizenship.
SCOTUS has consistently held “that non citizens, including “illegal aliens” are protected by the Constitution.

So you're admitting that you don't understand the 14th Amendment. Got it!


https://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/birthright-citizenship-fundamental-misunderstanding-the-14th-amendment

[darkgael]

Well….one of us doesn’t understand it. And it ain’t me.

[Dee]

Well….one of us doesn’t understand it. And it ain’t me.

Nooo, I'm pretty sure its you.

The 14th Amendment is posted on this thread. Please point out the part that gives illegal aliens the same constitutional rights as American citizens.   

[Graybeard]

I posted the 14th Amendment above. Please point out to me the part of it that covers illegals. I sure do not read anything in it that covers illegals.

[DDZ]

Well….one of us doesn’t understand it. And it ain’t me.

So someone crosses our border illegally, and then are protected by our Constitution, and Bill of Rights?  Where did you learn this? You been watching CNN again?

[GTS225]

Ummm.....guys?  Read it again;

(from Graybeard's post)
AMENDMENT XIV

Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Ya gotta think like a lawyer.....notice the last two lines......"; nor shall any State deprive", and "; nor deny to any person"......it does not denote whether that person must be a citizen, illegal alien, or alien from another planet.

I will also concede the line of "No State shall make or enforce" as applying ONLY to citizens, and therefore opens up the creation of laws that apply ONLY to non-citizens, but then that is over-written by the last two sentences, which are separated by a semicolon, rather than a comma.

This is part of the document that our laws are based off of.  Are you now attempting to claim that it's wrong and should be altered?

Be very careful what you wish for.....a Constitutional Convention can also go very badly.

Roger

[Goldie]

Dee: Always fun to have a polite discussion with you.
Your interpretation of the rights and protections afforded by the 14th amendment is deeply flawed. There is a tremendous amount of information available for you to read….which you should probably do before you criticize someone else’s understanding.
Nothing to do with illegal aliens? Both the due process clause and the equal protection clauses afforded protection to all people regardless of their citizenship.
SCOTUS has consistently held “that non citizens, including “illegal aliens” are protected by the Constitution.

        Excactly why Trump and his staff need to cleanup the left liberal colleges in this country spewing their crooked nonsense and left wing crap. Nothing worse than liberal teachers teaching this B.S. to our kids and ruining America. Quit funding these liberal cesspool schools.

[Dixie-Dude]

What part of ILLEGAL don't people understand.  We offered back 20-30 years ago to computerize Mexico's records.  That way anyone in Mexico needing a passport could get one fairly quickly.  Then they could travel LEGALLY to the US.  If they found a job, they could get a green card.  But no, Mexico said no.  A person needing a job in Mexico has to wait a year or two just to get a passport.  This is not our problem.  This is Mexico's problem, so we can send the Mexican's back home without LEGAL documentation. 

One way to solve this problem very quickly, is to have a very steep fine for anyone hiring an illegal, like $10,000 and/or time in jail.  No jobs, they go back home on their own. 

Right now, Trump is only concentrating on ILLEGALS that have criminal records back home, or that have committed other crimes while in the US.  I think mandatory federal charges like the death penalty for murder and castration for rapists.  Not cruel and unusual with modern techniques.   

[GTS225]

and castration for rapists.  Not cruel and unusual with modern techniques.

HMMPH!  IMO, you are far too gentle for this kind of crime.

For rapists and child molesters;  An abandoned wood frame building, a straight-backed wooden chair, a nail, and a knife.  Nail the perp's scrotum to the chair seat, set the building on fire, and hand him the knife.  IF he does what is the obvious, you stitch him up and send him on his way, with the stern warning that there WILL NOT BE A SECOND CHANCE.  Brutal and barbaric?  Yes, but so was their crime.

You DON'T give them psychiatric treatment, mood-altering drugs, or any other "genteel" manner of abatement for his urges.  The rest of us can be civilized without them, and so should the cavemen be able to learn to do so in our society.

Roger

[scattershot]

Round ‘em up, ship ‘em out.

[darkgael]

Since I obviously am missing something, would you be so kind as to explain where I have gone awry?

[Mule 11]

Just curious, if you give Mexicans a bag of burritos before you launch them back over the border, what do the Venezuelan thugs get. You know, the ones the un supreme court just ruled could be flown out

[darkgael]

LOL

[Dee]

Since I obviously am missing something, would you be so kind as to explain where I have gone awry?

Your missing discernment.

[Bob Riebe]

     Excactly why Trump and his staff need to cleanup the left liberal colleges in this country spewing their crooked nonsense and left wing crap. Nothing worse than liberal teachers teaching this B.S. to our kids and ruining America. Quit funding these liberal cesspool schools.

I think flushing out the education system, NOT just Ivy schools is probably more important than the illegals.
Some of them will send their kids to college or liberal grade schools, THEN they become part of the herd of liberal human debris; it is THEN they become a true threat to what this country once was.

[Dee]

     Excactly why Trump and his staff need to cleanup the left liberal colleges in this country spewing their crooked nonsense and left wing crap. Nothing worse than liberal teachers teaching this B.S. to our kids and ruining America. Quit funding these liberal cesspool schools.

I think flushing out the education system, NOT just Ivy schools is probably more important than the illegals.
Some of them will send their kids to college or liberal grade schools, THEN they become part of the herd of liberal human debris; it is THEN they become a true threat to what this country once was.

I don't think more important but, almost as important.

[Bob Riebe]

     It would be nice if an unmarked van grabbed Waltz , put him on a plane, and parachuted him in the middle of Venezuela.

[Mule 11]

     It would be nice if an unmarked van grabbed Waltz , put him on a plane, and parachuted him in the middle of Venezuela.

Watch out or he’ll come and kick your ass .

[scattershot]

     It would be nice if an unmarked van grabbed Waltz , put him on a plane, and parachuted him in the middle of Venezuela.

Watch out or he’ll come and kick your ass .

Provided it’s not his time of the month.