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Author Topic: Smokeless muzzleloader  (Read 3597 times)

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Offline tomme boy

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Smokeless muzzleloader
« on: February 25, 2014, 07:36:25 AM »
One of my good friends had a smokeless muzzleloader made from a H&R shotgun. He had it built by Smokelessmuzzleloading. Has anyone here had one of these built by these guys? They use a shotgun frame. I just think the shotgun frame would not hold up to this. Or am I wrong? He told me he shot 3 deer with it these year. I really like muzzleloaders but I hate the clean up.
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: Smokeless muzzleloader
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2014, 07:41:21 AM »
I don't know about that outfit, but a few here have talked about making .45-70's into muzzle loaders and I think a couple .500 S&W also.  Just make sure you read your regulations closely.  Here, it MUST be black powder or a black powder substitute.  Shotgun frame should be ok if you don't go past trap door level loads.  Seems pretty pricey at that point.  You can get a whole .45-70 gun for $260 or so and have someone with a press counter bore the back of the barrel and thread deep enough to use a traditions 5/8" 209 primer breechplug.  It'd do the same and their breechplug is $17 bucks.  You can remove the extractor because it'd no longer be needed also.  ;)
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Smokeless muzzleloader
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2014, 07:46:53 AM »
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Smokeless muzzleloader
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2014, 08:01:03 AM »
Here's a link to Slufoot's conversion of a 45-70 Handi. It's a great idea, unfortunately not legal here, have to use black powder or subs and traditional caps with exposed ignition, no 209, no glass optics during muzzleloader seasons. :(

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/hr-centerfire-rifles/deluxe-45-70-handi-muzzleloader-conversion-w-range-report/msg1099221195/#msg1099221195
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"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline tacklebury

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Re: Smokeless muzzleloader
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2014, 08:27:02 AM »
Wow Tim, that's really restrictive.  8(  Have you ever looked at the Traditions Vortex Northwest Magnum?  Lots of nice features and meant to meet up with the requirements up there.  ;)
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Smokeless muzzleloader
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2014, 08:56:39 AM »
Got that covered, I have a Huntsman that I modified with openings to satisfy the open ignition and converted a breech plug to use a musket cap nipple. Also have two TC Black Diamonds, a Super XR .45 and a .50 and a CVA Staghorn .45, all four have fiber optic front and WGRS rear sights.  ;)

Tim
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"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline tacklebury

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Re: Smokeless muzzleloader
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2014, 09:32:32 AM »
Nice.  ;)  Guess you have it covered at that! 
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline tomme boy

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Re: Smokeless muzzleloader
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2014, 11:15:18 AM »
The only restriction we have in Iowa is no electronic ignition.
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Smokeless muzzleloader
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2014, 09:23:42 PM »
Tommie boy,


A smokeless MZ on an SB1 frame is not a concern because with the threaded breech plug you eliminate the majority of the breech thrust.  I have a 45-70 that I converted with a slip fit/epoxied BP and it works fine on my SB1.  We have also threaded and installed the Savage 10mL BP in a Handi 45-70 and that works fine as well.  Another member has installed many of the savage smokeless BPs in 45-70 Handis.

You say your friend has a smokeless MZ made from a H&R shotgun.  Is it a converted rifled slug barrel or is a stub or liner conversion?  Just curious what was built.

One thought on breech plugs for smokeless MZs is the 209 primer pocket must be sealed or you will not have consistent, if any, ignition of your smokeless powder.  I am not familiar with the Traditions BP but any 209 plug, like the older T/C plugs, that have slots (vents) on the 209 pocket will probably not work well with smokeless powder.  This same ignition problem has been reported many times with blackhorn 209, which is basically a smokeless powder with something added to make it "puff" when ignited.

Not having to immediately clean  after shooting a smokeless MZ was my main attraction to them.  Couple that with improved accuracy and range and they make fine deer rifles.


BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Smokeless muzzleloader
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2014, 01:04:43 AM »
BB,

SMI has details on their barrels.

Tim

http://www.smokelessmuzzleloading.com/

Quote from: tomme boy on February 25, 2014, 07:36:25 AM
He had it built by Smokelessmuzzleloading.
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"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Smokeless muzzleloader
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2014, 03:41:02 AM »
bb - SMI converts their barrels the same way that "...(the GBO) member has installed many of the Savage smokeless BPs in 45-70 Handis." does.   I compared the one SMI makes, against the one I had it done by the GBO member.  They are the same, except, for the following:

1)I had the newer Savage BP, which could be removed with 5/8" standard socket, and the one SMI supplied to a GBO member needed some tool to remove it.  The current ones made by SMI also use the new Savage BP.

2)The SMI version, comes with a 5 piece takedown ramrod, and the one made by the GBO member has a telescoping ram rod, similar to the H&R ramrod, but IMHO a lot sturdier.

3)The barrel made by SMI, does not have any ramrod thimbles, the one made by the GBO member does.
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"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.
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