Author Topic: .25 wssm (Read 1253 times)

jiminpa · « **on:** February 25, 2004, 06:21:51 AM »

why do they make these "new" cartridges and then put them in a short barreled rifle? don't they look at thier own ballistic charts? :eek: i would buy one IF it came in a 24-26 inch barrel.

Lawdog · « **Reply #1 on:** February 25, 2004, 03:18:51 PM »

Winchester M70 Coyote, 24 inch barrel. Lawdog

jiminpa · « **Reply #2 on:** February 25, 2004, 03:23:46 PM »

lawdog, one problem,i can't stand the safety on those winnys! guess i'm too picky! might have to wait till ruger puts it in a number 1!! gb will buy one of these too!!

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #3 on:** February 26, 2004, 02:28:28 PM »

Just read an article on the Winny .25WSSM in the Shooting Times that arrived today. After reading about this new whiz-bang cartridge I was feeling pretty good about the Ruger .257 Roberts I picked up a couple weeks ago for a shot-out Savage 110E in .22-250 and $150 out of pocket. The Ruger even came with a Leupold to sweeten the deal!

After working up handloads to Barnes published .257 Roberts +P data, the .25WSSM has a whopping 11fps advantage with 115g bullets, the weight I have selected for hunting purposes. The Winny runs 2994fps with a Win 115g Ballistic Silvertip, my Ruger runs 2983fps with a 115g Barnes TSX (Triple Shock).

I get 4 rounds in the mag, the Winchester gets "only" 3.

Guess I'm not sold on the whole ultra-short cartridge concept, but to each their own - if I was looking for a new rifle and didn't already have a .25, the .25 WSSM would certainly be one I would consider.

jiminpa · « **Reply #4 on:** February 26, 2004, 02:44:47 PM »

i have a "old" ruger 77 ultra light in .257 roberts(the tang safety type).this is one sweet,light,quick hunting rifle.don't know why i want a new toy,this one does everything i want! i also have a old ruger 77 in 25-06.this one has the iron sites(what where they thinking?) that makes it seem barrel heavy.but man does it shoot!i think its the .25 cal. i just like them!

i think its the short,fat thing.but as with the rest of these new wonder cartridges go,i thing they will fade away.mabe untill the manufactors wise up and stretch the barrels to help get the "magnum"velocities they claim to have,i'll stick with my old favorites!!

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #5 on:** February 27, 2004, 03:29:05 AM »

Quote from: jiminpa

i have a "old" ruger 77 ultra light in .257 roberts(the tang safety type).this is one sweet,light,quick hunting rifle.don't know why i want a new toy,this one does everything i want! i also have a old ruger 77 in 25-06.this one has the iron sites(what where they thinking?) that makes it seem barrel heavy.but man does it shoot!i think its the .25 cal. i just like them!

i think its the short,fat thing.but as with the rest of these new wonder cartridges go,i thing they will fade away.mabe untill the manufactors wise up and stretch the barrels to help get the "magnum"velocities they claim to have,i'll stick with my old favorites!!

jiminpa -

My Ruger .257 Roberts is like yours, an older model with the tang safety. The gentlman I bought it from said he bought it about 20 years ago and put a "box or two" of ammo through it. Looks brand spankin' new!, didn't even have drag wear in the finish where metal-to-metal wear occurs (bolt/receiver, trigger guard/floorplate, and safety/tang).

As to the iron sights, I like them on my Ruger M77 7mm Rem Mag, chose that particular model Ruger for that very reason! OTOH, if my Ruger .22-250 VT had iron sights I, too, would be scratching my head!

steve · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2004, 12:52:15 AM »

The manufacturers needed to make something new so they came out with all WSM and WSSM to boost there sales. They will eventally die out. Something new will always get the consumers money. I personally will not buy these short mags.

PAShooter · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2004, 01:13:35 AM »

I too have not been impressed by the new short mags. A friend of mine was talking about getting either a .243 or a .270 short mag. After comparing ballistics, we found maybe a 100 fps advantage between the .243 short mag, and his 6mm rem. About the same difference between the old .270 win and the .270 short mag. I'm sorry, but I want a little more than a 100 fps if I am going to a magnum round. I can get near the same performance a lot cheaper from the standard rounds.

jiminpa · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2004, 03:49:35 AM »

if you look at the ballistic tables i'd say just changed the barrel to 2 "longer in .270 win and you will get the .270 wsm velocitys! lot cheaper than a new gun and ammo will be easier to come by!
also how dead can you make something? i have 30-06's and .300 win mags,all a .300 winny is a 30-06 with sales tax! the only advantage is the winny throws the bigger(180 and over)bullets better.so i sold mine and stayed with the 30-06.course,i shoot a 45/70 #1 alot but that's another story!!

Lawdog · « **Reply #9 on:** March 19, 2004, 10:16:35 AM »

Just for the record guys, the .223 WSSM will beat the .220 Swift by and easy 200 fps. and the .243 WSSM will beat the .243 Win. by all most as much. Win. will NOT equal the .270 WSM, the WSM holds more powder PERIOD. The .25 WSSM is only supposed to equal the .25-06 but in a much shorter action WHICH does make for a stronger, stiffer action. That equals an action that has a potential of better accuracy. Isn't accuracy what most of us are about? By the way look at the new long range record holder, the 7mm WSM. No the WSM/WSSM are here to stay. Lawdog

LJOHNS · « **Reply #10 on:** March 19, 2004, 10:44:45 AM »

A 6mm rem also beats a 243 by about that much. IMO all these new cartridges won't kill anything any better than what we already have. Just companies trying to make some more $$. :wink:

jiminpa · « **Reply #11 on:** March 19, 2004, 11:59:39 AM »

thank you ljohns and amen!! :toast:

Lawdog · « **Reply #12 on:** March 19, 2004, 12:19:27 PM »

jiminpa,

True the 6mm Rem. beats the .243 Win. by 140 fps. but the .243 WSSM beats the 6mm by another 150 fps. going by factory loads. Remington charts shows the the .243 Win. at 2,960 fps., the 6mm at 3,100 fps. and the Win. chart(Rem. doesn't load the .243 WSSM) at 3,250 fps.. Remember we are talking factory loads. Reloading it gets worse because the .243 WSSM holds more powder than either the .243 Win. or the 6mm Remington. Also point of note is that I could only find one load for the 6mm in the Remington site. Sales must be off for the 6mm Remington. If this is true than maybe the 6mm may not be around long to compete with the .243 in either the standard Win. or the hopped up WSSM version. Lawdog

LJOHNS · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2004, 03:18:44 PM »

There are thousands and thousands of 6mm's out there. In fact, I just bought a near mint 1974 model 78 Browning in 6mm. Most serious shooters reload anyway so factory charts don't mean squat. Between me, my dad, and uncles we have killed well over 100 whitetails with 243's and 6mm's over the years. Most all one shot kills. I see no reason for anything new. However, if you wants to spend your $$ on the latest greatest thing go ahead, its a free country man!

wareagleguy · « **Reply #14 on:** March 22, 2004, 04:32:44 AM »

I just don't understand why so many folks are against something new. The fact is that it's a GOOD thing to have new stuff.

I have a WSM and it's my favorite among several guns. I too am looking at the 25 WSSM with interest. Short, light, and a big bang is "THE CATS" in my book. So what if other guns can shoot the same or almost as good. It's new and I like it. Get over it.

I'm with lawdog on this. THE WSM and WSSM are here to stay!!

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #15 on:** March 22, 2004, 05:21:14 AM »

Quote from: brdavis

I just don't understand why so many folks are against something new. The fact is that it's a GOOD thing to have new stuff.
...

I don't think anyone here is "against something new", but many people rightfully question if a particular "something new" has something valuable to offer.

The new stuff that has a good value proposition tends to stick around (but not always), the stuff that doesn't tends to go the way of the wind.

For me, the disadvantages of the new WSM's and WSSM's currently outweigh any advantages.

Lawdog · « **Reply #16 on:** March 22, 2004, 09:59:35 AM »

Coyote Hunter,

Quote

For me, the disadvantages of the new WSM's and WSSM's currently outweigh any advantages.

What disadvantages are those? It isn't feeding problems or that old rumor about them being barrel burners is it? These don't exist. Ammo availability is improving everyday. I mean do you remember how many different loads you could get for the .243 Winchester when it first came out? Two if I remember right. Advantages are potentially better accuracy(this is being proven everyday), shorter bolt throw and a tad bit lighter weight. Also I don't have to trim my .223 WSSM cases quite as often as I do my .223 Remington cases. I believe this is due to the WSSM case being thicker. So far I see nothing wrong with the new offerings from Winchester. They are proving to do just what they were intended to do. Lawdog

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #17 on:** March 22, 2004, 10:19:00 AM »

Quote from: Lawdog

Coyote Hunter,

Quote
For me, the disadvantages of the new WSM's and WSSM's currently outweigh any advantages.

What disadvantages are those? It isn't feeding problems or that old rumor about them being barrel burners is it? These don't exist. Ammo availability is improving everyday. I mean do you remember how many different loads you could get for the .243 Winchester when it first came out? Two if I remember right. Advantages are potentially better accuracy(this is being proven everyday), shorter bolt throw and a tad bit lighter weight. Also I don't have to trim my .223 WSSM cases quite as often as I do my .223 Remington cases. I believe this is due to the WSSM case being thicker. So far I see nothing wrong with the new offerings from Winchester. They are proving to do just what they were intended to do. Lawdog

Lawdog -

First, I am speaking only for myself - others have to make their own decisions, and that's life as it should be.

From my perspective, current disadvantages include:

* Cost, availability, selection of factory ammo.

* Availability in rifles I want to own. (Sorry, Winchester isn't one of them.)

* Brass cost and availability (?). (Midway has limited stock, haven't seen it at the gunshows where I buy most of my components.)

* Limited load data.

* Looks. By God, they still look funny! :shock:

Swamp Fox · « **Reply #18 on:** April 04, 2004, 09:08:23 PM »

I have a 300WSM and don't have any of the problems you mentioned.

Ammo is on the shelf at Wally World and most well stocked sporting goods suppliers.

Most every mfg. is chambering for them.

Brass is available from Winchester or Norma.

I have amassed a ton of load data from component mfg and online sources.

And, by God, they are the cutest little cartridges.

Lawdog · « **Reply #19 on:** April 05, 2004, 02:28:15 PM »

Coyote Hunter,

Quote

From my perspective, current disadvantages include:

* Cost, availability, selection of factory ammo.

* Availability in rifles I want to own. (Sorry, Winchester isn't one of them.)

* Brass cost and availability (?). (Midway has limited stock, haven't seen it at the gunshows where I buy most of my components.)

* Limited load data.

* Looks. By God, they still look funny!

All of what you say is some what true BUT most hunters/shooters will agree that the .243 Win. is a great cartridge for use on varmints up to deer size game. When it was first introduced it was only chambered in Win. rifles. There were only two loads available for it. Brass was hard to get. Remember there was no on-line ordering over the net. You went down to the local store and sent in your order and WAITED. Now everyone chambers their rifles for the .243 Win. and ammo is available every where in more loads than you can use. Brass is available all over the place.

Now I will give you that these short, fat cartridges do look strange. BUT what do you think was said by shooters used to rimmed cartridges(.45-70, .30-30, etc.) had to say about rimless cartridges when they were first introduced? Does the word funny come to mind? All I am saying is give them a chance and who knows what they will be saying about these rounds after you and I are long gone to the next happy hunting ground. Lawdog