Author Topic: Just How Many Rounds Do We Need? (Read 8463 times)

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #30 on:** May 23, 2013, 03:03:15 AM »

Quote from: Oldshooter on May 22, 2013, 03:55:09 AM

Quote
I have heard 1 hit in 7 shots for police is average.

Just curios, what is the target size, distance to target, and speed of fire? for officers to qualify. Don't have a clue I was talking real world gun fights.

I have a daughter(26) that can hit a 6" bullseye at 25 ft with every shot with a 40 cal Glock.
She pulls up and shoots as fast as she can for 4 or five rounds. I always ask her to double tap but ............... She is going to start multiple, and moving targets soon, maybe she will start to conserve ammo for multiple targets

Want to add some real skill ? place a 3X5 index card 7 yards away at eye level. Get her to draw and fire in less than a second and a half. Then place a standard sheet of typing paper at 15 yards at eye level and draw and double tap it in 2 seconds or less. If ya'll want to make it interesting shoot both 5 times each. If she does it you give her a dollar each time if she misses she gives you a dollar. It adds a bit of pressure to the game. It could be other chores involved . Good luck and have fun.

For moving targets I use a tire swing from a tree with a target in the middle , let it spin as it swings for real fun.

tom548 · « **Reply #31 on:** May 23, 2013, 03:46:20 AM »

I am sure there are may variations of how peace and police officers in different places get qualified to carry a weapon. Most will shoot at 7 yd, 15 yd, and 25 yd at the B27 or B29 target. One is a human size target the other is a smaller human target. The smaller one is used to shoot the 25 yard position if the range is not 25 yards (indoor). It is not hard to qualify and you get enough time for each position.
If you added some one shooting at you while trying to qualify it would be a different story.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #32 on:** May 23, 2013, 03:57:05 AM »

I hear the FBI use mean green and blue bast--d targets. They show where the organs are in relation to hits. Sounds like a great idea.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #33 on:** May 23, 2013, 06:01:55 PM »

I'll have to try that game SHOOTALL.

Thanks Tom, I thought it was something like that but wsn't sure.

WE use 6 inch and 8 inch blind flanges swinging on chain links(about a 5 ft arc), I paint em orange or florescent green. MY sons are good but the girls aint bad. WE try to shoot anytime we can get together.

I can imagine that targets shooting back, would be more difficult to hit!

SharonAnne · « **Reply #34 on:** May 27, 2013, 10:09:26 AM »

in published documents the DHS has called the AR15 type rifle excellent for self defense and the use of 30 round magazines as something to be used whenever possible. Now why is the same not true for civilians?

powderman · « **Reply #35 on:** May 27, 2013, 02:00:23 PM »

Quote

I can imagine that targets shooting back, would be more difficult to hit!

I wonder if tossing a few firecrackers in the direction of the shooter might be a bit of a distraction?? POWDERMAN.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #36 on:** May 27, 2013, 07:34:40 PM »

Curious myself.....how many here have had to expend ammo in a "combat situation" with someone shooting back at you? And what was your round count per "stop"?

I have to qualify on the FBI "Q" target and must have an 80% hit ratio or higher to qualify. The course is 50 rounds at various ranges from 3yds out to 25 yds. I have to do this at least 4 times a years.
This of course does not include rounds fired in tactical training. On average I expend just over a thousand rounds per year in training, both qualifying and tactical.

I am also a Cowboy Action Shooter, former state champion in my catagory, and would shoot around 9 thousand rounds per year in that game. I was pretty good at it, but then ...no one was shooting back at me!
I no longer compete for various reasons, but given the choice I would rather engage a "bad guy" with my old CAS guns than my service weapon. A full house .45 250 gr Colt puts things DOWN!

tom548 · « **Reply #37 on:** May 28, 2013, 04:17:47 AM »

One of the so called mass shooting in NY, NY city to be exact happened on wall street it started between two people that worked together, one was armed and shot the other, I believe they were on the side walk. There just happened to be 2 police officers in the crowd and the shot the shooter but also injured several other people. The shooter only shot the guy he was after.
Even though the cops did the most of the damage, this is still used to show the subjects in NY that we need more gun reg. I say we need better gun control, stance, trigger control and sight alignment.

To answer your question on how many rounds are needed in a shoot out, any number from 1 to as many as you can carry. Extra rounds, always better than not enough!

FPH · « **Reply #38 on:** May 28, 2013, 04:32:08 AM »

Why would you cut the LEO any slack just because he my be taking fire? Isn't he or she suppose to be the trained "professional" who separates themselves as beinng superior to us lowly "civilians" in times like this. Why compare us. If you do, why do we need them? Also I think if some of the fat azz Officers cant keep their body fat to say 10% of their optimum... should be fired. Goes for Fire Fighters also.

rdmallory · « **Reply #39 on:** June 03, 2013, 03:26:15 PM »

For those of you think they can do much better try shooting steal competition with your carry piece.
5 targets at random distance, size varies from 10" to man size. Even without them shooting back it is difficult to do quickly.

I am now shooting a 226 Sig and can do fair. I will not even attempt it with the Kar 9mm I was caring.
Stop right now and think, someone just kicked the front door, where is your firearm and how long with it take you to get armed?

I have seen a 75 yo man hit 5 in under 3 seconds with a wheel gun and had a .8 sec responce time to the first target.

Doug

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #40 on:** June 04, 2013, 01:43:26 AM »

I would add that FBI stats say the average from kicking in the front door to entering the master bed room is around 47 seconds. So you will wake up , access the situation , arm yourself and get to a mental state to defend your home, family and self. BTW do you need glasses ?
My I suggest a pump shotgun be close at hand .

FPH · « **Reply #41 on:** June 04, 2013, 01:49:47 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on June 04, 2013, 01:43:26 AM

I would add that FBI stats say the average from kicking in the front door to entering the master bed room is around 47 seconds. So you will wake up , access the situation , arm yourself and get to a mental state to defend your home, family and self. BTW do you need glasses ?
My I suggest a pump shotgun be close at hand .

Dogs are nice early warning devices.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #42 on:** June 04, 2013, 01:52:58 AM »

Quote from: FPH on June 04, 2013, 01:49:47 AM

Quote from: SHOOTALL on June 04, 2013, 01:43:26 AM
I would add that FBI stats say the average from kicking in the front door to entering the master bed room is around 47 seconds. So you will wake up , access the situation , arm yourself and get to a mental state to defend your home, family and self. BTW do you need glasses ?
My I suggest a pump shotgun be close at hand .

Dogs are nice early warning devices.

very good indeed ,

SharonAnne · « **Reply #43 on:** June 05, 2013, 09:50:25 AM »

when awakend by my door being kicked in the order is : awake, arm self, assess situation, call 911, leave phone on, act accordingly.

It will not hurt to be heard shouting "Get OUT!" repeatedly before you open fire.

dwalk · « **Reply #44 on:** June 09, 2013, 06:45:35 AM »

IMO...LE are, unwittingly, trained to panic. they, normally, are not trained to AIM their shots...yeah..."Center of mass" IS an aiming spot...but aiming at the heart/lungs is much more effective...

shoot to center of mass until the threat is stopped is the mantra. how many rounds will it take? usually just ONE in the heart or brain.

i have seen a video of LEO missing a perp from slightly more than arms length from him with a full magazine of 40 cal...there was a shoot out, in San Diego a number of years ago where a detective and a bad guy both emptied their guns at one another from the length of an automobile and never hit one another.

i'm sure there are many, many, other examples.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #45 on:** June 09, 2013, 03:42:49 PM »

I saw a video on tv once where two officers pull over a pickup truck and are standing on either side, the two men in the truck pull weapons and the shootout commences. Now these four men were only the length of a pickup bed apart and everyone shot multiple times and NO ONE was hit and the perps drove off! Thats amazing! Understandable but amazing none the less.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #46 on:** June 10, 2013, 03:04:59 AM »

I have read where in a crisis most people look at the threat not the person/center of mass. It was amazing how many people get shot in the hand/arm holding the gun. Even the gun gets hit. The arm/hand /gun/knife is a small target. Easy to miss.
Some say the ability to control ones self and shoot a target like a button on the center of the chest on the bad guys shirt instead of being overwhelmed by being shot at is what makes the few great gun fightes what they are.

rdmallory · « **Reply #47 on:** June 10, 2013, 01:56:26 PM »

I can see myself now training to hit a button and getting mugged by a guy in a hoodie.

Doug

powderman · « **Reply #48 on:** June 10, 2013, 05:40:50 PM »

Quote from: rdmallory on June 10, 2013, 01:56:26 PM

I can see myself now training to hit a button and getting mugged by a guy in a hoodie.

Doug

DOUG. Didn't help poor lil trayvon. POWDERMAN.

nw_hunter · « **Reply #49 on:** June 10, 2013, 09:46:50 PM »

Quote from: FPH on June 04, 2013, 01:49:47 AM

Quote from: SHOOTALL on June 04, 2013, 01:43:26 AM
I would add that FBI stats say the average from kicking in the front door to entering the master bed room is around 47 seconds. So you will wake up , access the situation , arm yourself and get to a mental state to defend your home, family and self. BTW do you need glasses ?
My I suggest a pump shotgun be close at hand .

Dogs are nice early warning devices.

Most are, but not this old Pit Bull we have.She wags her tail at every stranger she meets, and I would be surprised if she barked at a stranger in the middle of the night.The only thing she bites is food.

FPH · « **Reply #50 on:** June 11, 2013, 01:38:49 AM »

Quote from: nw_hunter on June 10, 2013, 09:46:50 PM

Quote from: FPH on June 04, 2013, 01:49:47 AM
Quote from: SHOOTALL on June 04, 2013, 01:43:26 AM
I would add that FBI stats say the average from kicking in the front door to entering the master bed room is around 47 seconds. So you will wake up , access the situation , arm yourself and get to a mental state to defend your home, family and self. BTW do you need glasses ?
My I suggest a pump shotgun be close at hand .

Dogs are nice early warning devices.

Most are, but not this old Pit Bull we have.She wags her tail at every stranger she meets, and I would be surprised if she barked at a stranger in the middle of the night.The only thing she bites is food.

I have one that will lick you to death, he will bark at a stranger though......I just want one more round than the bad guy and I want to be alive to use it.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #51 on:** June 11, 2013, 07:53:24 AM »

how many rounds do you need? Well by the number of rounds the DHS wants related to how may our military expends in Afganistan, they can wage war on the American people for over 20 years! No claims of needing this for practice use will wash. Heck the IRS want 40 million rounds of .40 S&W hollow points. Tax collectors need this for just what exactly???

BBF · « **Reply #52 on:** June 11, 2013, 09:11:18 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on June 04, 2013, 01:52:58 AM

Quote from: FPH on June 04, 2013, 01:49:47 AM
Quote from: SHOOTALL on June 04, 2013, 01:43:26 AM

Dogs are nice early warning devices.

very good indeed ,

Always armed and do not run out of Ammo.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #53 on:** June 12, 2013, 06:33:24 AM »

TM7, I agree. However the IRS and DHS are not in the business of aquiring post government-breakdown trade goods, or at least should not be. DHS is supposed to be in the SECURITY business, not combat. All of the DHS agents need to stop molesting citizens and get their asses down to the border with Mexico. THAT border needs securing more than airports.

Their will never be another successful airplane highjacking. The 9/11/2001 highjackings changed the paradigm. The paradigm was, highjackers kill one or two passengers or crew members to show they are serious, sit quietly until ransom is paid, then fly home from some arab country.

Now it is, kill someone, use plane as weapon, everyone dies. Since everyone will die anyway, all of the passengers and crew will fight tooth and nail to overcome the highjackers. Ergo, end of highjacking risk.

The largest danger to our security is the millions of illegal aliens swarming across our southern border. The DHS can use all that ammo to shoot those attempting to invade our country.

Savage .250 · « **Reply #54 on:** June 12, 2013, 06:41:02 AM »

Makes you wonder how the folks before hi-capacity clips/mags came to be ever made it out a live in any type of gun-battle/defense action.

Todays thinking is .............more is better!

FPH · « **Reply #55 on:** June 12, 2013, 07:06:31 AM »

May

Quote from: Savage .250 on June 12, 2013, 06:41:02 AM

Makes you wonder how the folks before hi-capacity clips/mags came to be ever made it out a live in any type of gun-battle/defense action.

Todays thinking is .............more is better!

Maybe because all were limited to the same capacity.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #56 on:** June 12, 2013, 10:21:20 AM »

Quote from: FPH on June 12, 2013, 07:06:31 AM

May
Quote from: Savage .250 on June 12, 2013, 06:41:02 AM
Makes you wonder how the folks before hi-capacity clips/mags came to be ever made it out a live in any type of gun-battle/defense action.

Todays thinking is .............more is better!

Personally I believe they learned to shoot better . Bullets are like money the less you have the better you use them.

Maybe because all were limited to the same capacity.

powderman · « **Reply #57 on:** June 12, 2013, 02:47:53 PM »

Quote from: Savage .250 on June 12, 2013, 06:41:02 AM

Makes you wonder how the folks before hi-capacity clips/mags came to be ever made it out a live in any type of gun-battle/defense action.

Todays thinking is .............more is better!

Most likely because they actually learned to shoot accurately instead of spray and pray. POWDERMAN.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #58 on:** June 13, 2013, 12:52:33 AM »

how many rounds do I need? At least the one in the chamber when everything gets quiet.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #59 on:** June 13, 2013, 01:53:09 AM »

Some funny guy in his show said he didn't know how many guys it would take to kick him out but he knew how many they were going to use. It was a funny line. But if you don't have a clue how many they are going to use and you don't know how many it will take to do what ever it is that going to be done to you against you wishes should not the correct answer be as many as we can get ?