Just How Many Rounds Do We Need?

[nw_hunter]

No one needs high capacity mags................Right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F1nPSNnaBo&feature=youtu.be

[spruce]

Good video.

[bulletstuffer]

What was the total round count used by the police to stop the 2 Boston bombers?  Only one of the bombers were killed.  How many policeman discharged their weapons against 2 guys?  These are professionals that were at the ready.


We can't predict who or how many bad guys a person may encounter at one time.  How is the lightly trained citizen supposed to stop a bad guy or a flash mob with 7 bullets under a high stress situation. This could possibly happen even after just being woke up to the sound of a break in?

No common sense!


Bulletstuffer   

[ironglow]

Terriffic video..  it should be distributed fsr and wide..  In any case, it's a good "first learning experience" for some of the LIVs.
   

[SharonAnne]

far too often 'professional' is mistaken for 'expert'.  Professional merely means one gets paid. It does not convey ability. One can be 'professional' and be doing it incorrectly for 40 yrs.

[FPH]

The Officer's own Police Chief said his Officers were just fortunate that the Perps ran out of ammo, or some of his Officers may have been hurt or killed.

[powderman]

I posted this on pot belly, I didn't see it here, sorry. Some poor shooting and waste of ammo at close range but gets the point accross very well. POWDERMAN. 

[FPH]

Police are some of the worst shoots I've seen.  I was taught to shoot a pistol by the Range Master at my local Police Department.  The majority (not all) of Police Officer only touch the tool of their trade once a year at qualifying.  Later it is holsters till next year.

[LONGTOM]

Good video but if I may make an observation.
He spent 6 rounds on the first perp from what looks like either a 9mm or maybe a 40cal.
He used his last round on the second perp and is out of ammo.
I understand the purpose of the video to show that sometimes 7 rounds just isn't enough but had he been using say a 45 acp I don't think he would have had to expend that many rounds on the first guy to put him down.
Also, why didn't he have another magazine ready just in case?
Myself, I prefer a big bore wheel gun in either 44 mag or 45 colt.
Big holes put things down and keep them there.
If I had to live under those rules I would either be a lawbreaker with how ever many rounds I wanted or I would have had another gun at my ready if needed.
They say seven rounds but they don't say how many guns you can have.
At least not yet.
 
 
LONGTOM

[Empty Quiver]

Like guns, I need one more.

[powderman]

My neighbor is a school teacher and has some pretty liberal ideas. He whined about hi cap mags. I told him that a lot of home invasions have multiple attackers and in a situation like that I wanted as many rounds at my disposal as I could get. He agreed with that. POWDERMAN. 

[SHOOTALL]

far too often 'professional' is mistaken for 'expert'.  Professional merely means one gets paid. It does not convey ability. One can be 'professional' and be doing it incorrectly for 40 yrs.

Now that's to the point! Here in Richmond many years ago a friends cousin was on the police force. He and another officer were on a stake out using a police woman as a decoy prostitute. A call came in of a robbery in progress one block away. It was a split ally so one cop went down one side and the other down the other. As they emerged from the ally the robber was coming out the store with sawed off shotgun ( a pump) in hand. Now this was in the 80's so both cops had revolvers. They both emptied their guns twice , one dropped a round when reloading so their count was only 23 , 357 mags. The bad guy got off 5 shots . They were only a 50 ft or less apart. The bad guy hooked his foot in the drop inlet and broke his ankle , GAME OVER. No shot hit a person.  In Richmond you have stores on side streets that split the ally. We also have two one way streets side by side going the same way and don't ask how to explain the fan district. Ok it would be easy to call the cops poor shots but in this case it was both cops first shooting. And I bet many would be a bit off their game the first time someone was shooting at them. The biggest mistake was both exited the alley with out looking before leaving cover of the buildings. I think it points out the poor training of the times. Which only adds to the post SA made . Who was the coach who said only perfect practice makes perfect players ?

[SharonAnne]

the first 1911/.45ACP I ever shot was loaned to me by a good friend who could not bear to see me shoot a 9mmP.  I went to our indoor range with one magazine and a 50rd box of ammo.  A police training officer was there with one of his officers who was qualifying.  We shot at 50ft. On the multi shot strings his officer was using speed loaders. I on the other hand had to put the 1911 on the floor, kneel and load my one magazine.  I not only was as quick ( to use the term loosely) as the qualifying officer, I outshot him by quite a bit. All of my rounds were 9 ring or better. His were not.

The training officer asked me how long I had been shooting a 1911/45 . I told him that he had seen every round I had ever fired.  He then went to his officer and gave him a rather severe dressing down.

Cops carry to protect their lives. I would think they would take a better interest in being a good shot.

[Oldshooter]

Is it just me , the link always shows "sorry an error occured".

[nw_hunter]

Must be you I just tried it again, and no problem.
Here is another link to a video made by a young Black man. His reasoning for the dreaded assault rifle that folks like Peirse Morgan and others so despise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R3uLTnzs60. This young man is spot on, and does a great job of conveying his message. We need more minorities speaking up against gun control.

[SHOOTALL]

Yea had the home owner subscribed to 40 something he may have been better off. Often it seems it's a certain amount of bullet weight that causes an attacker to stop the attack. One 230 45's or two 115 9mm's  Of course spray and pray is not always effective .

[yellowtail3]

I'll need around 20 or so rounds next fall. 4-5 to confirm zero, another six for six deer, couple more to confirm zero mid-season, and maybe shoot a couple beaver or coyote. I'd PREFER more, but one box should be enough. I've got 2-1/2!


...these will be 30-30s...

[SHOOTALL]

That sounds about right .
 Does anyone remember the Remington add where the guy had a 7mm rem mag ? showed a box of rounds  with some missing and a barn behind him with an Elk mount for each missing round ? Killed one a year and got 20 years out of a box.
 THEM WAS THE DAYS 

[nw_hunter]

I think more like two or three game animals per box. The rest being used before the seasons open to make sure the sights are still on, and I can still do my part

[SHOOTALL]

I like to shoot year round so sighting in is when first setting up the gun or changing the set up . New scope , new ammo etc. . Never considered shooting a few shots on a nice clear day got ya ready for a cold drizzly day in the field. 

[SharonAnne]

before I messed up my back I was shooting about 20,000 rds a year in matches.  Then there was about 30,000 in practice.

50k per year. That is for pistol.

At pre obamanation prices I was spending over $5,000 a year in components. Plus about $1,500 a year in local match entry fees. This does not count if I went out of town to a major tournament.  On a busy year I might spend a total of $10,000 on my shooting activities. Before anyone cries "Foul" please remember, I was an RN with many years experience so my hourly rate was over $30/hr and I worked a lot of overtime. I was also single.  I did as I pleased.

At currrent obamanation prices that would be more like $50k a year. No wonder shooting activity is down all across the board.

[sluggo]

 My 2 cents worth as a retired L.E. and 14 yr. combat veteran.......a pistol is a poor choice for home defense, nothing better than a pump shotgun. C&C is another story. Also, punching holes in paper is a whole different game than when the crap hits the fan and bullets are flying. I'd rather be an average shot under duress and keep my cool and fight through the situation than to be an expert shot and crap my pants and not hit anything.

[Dee]

Police are some of the worst shoots I've seen.  I was taught to shoot a pistol by the Range Master at my local Police Department.  The majority (not all) of Police Officer only touch the tool of their trade once a year at qualifying.  Later it is holsters till next year.

FPH, I WAS a "Ranger Master", Instructor, Trainer, for Pistol, Revolver, Shotgun, Assault Rifle,  and also, SWAT Trainer, and Leader. I resent what you said about police officers and their shooting ability. Even if it is true.
They would say to me: Sgt. why can't I shoot like you? And I would say: Because I shoot! You don't! The hiarchy in L.E. looks at budgets, and equipment. Tellin them their officers couldn't hit a police car if they were sittin in it, meant nothing to'em.

[yellowtail3]

ammo too expensive for me to be buying any these days... besides, all my money is going into gas, going into a Merc 115hp Tower of Power...

[SharonAnne]

all of OUR money is going into the DHS buying 1.5 billion rounds of 5.56.  Now just who are they planning to shoot it at?

So called 'combat matches' are the closest thing to combat that civilians can engage in.  They teach concentration under pressure. It is not combat but is damn sure a good place to start from if the effluent hits the ventilator.

BTW, the top 'combat' shooters in the civilian world make the vast majority of their income from our military, teaching the techniques that made them champions.

[FPH]

Police are some of the worst shoots I've seen.  I was taught to shoot a pistol by the Range Master at my local Police Department.  The majority (not all) of Police Officer only touch the tool of their trade once a year at qualifying.  Later it is holsters till next year.

FPH, I WAS a "Ranger Master", Instructor, Trainer, for Pistol, Revolver, Shotgun, Assault Rifle,  and also, SWAT Trainer, and Leader. I resent what you said about police officers and their shooting ability. Even if it is true.
They would say to me: Sgt. why can't I shoot like you? And I would say: Because I shoot! You don't! The hiarchy in L.E. looks at budgets, and equipment. Tellin them their officers couldn't hit a police car if they were sittin in it, meant nothing to'em.

Officers use to get pissed at me because I was a 15 year old that looked 12 and I could out shoot them.  They didn't realize I put 500-1000 rounds down range every Sat. morning.  Those were the days when the Lt. would hand me 10-20 boxes of wad cutters (depending on his commitments )and say "shoot".  Now shooting under pressure is another thing altogether.

[SHOOTALL]

Police are some of the worst shoots I've seen.  I was taught to shoot a pistol by the Range Master at my local Police Department.  The majority (not all) of Police Officer only touch the tool of their trade once a year at qualifying.  Later it is holsters till next year.

FPH, I WAS a "Ranger Master", Instructor, Trainer, for Pistol, Revolver, Shotgun, Assault Rifle,  and also, SWAT Trainer, and Leader. I resent what you said about police officers and their shooting ability. Even if it is true.
They would say to me: Sgt. why can't I shoot like you? And I would say: Because I shoot! You don't! The hiarchy in L.E. looks at budgets, and equipment. Tellin them their officers couldn't hit a police car if they were sittin in it, meant nothing to'em.

Officers use to get pissed at me because I was a 15 year old that looked 12 and I could out shoot them.  They didn't realize I put 500-1000 rounds down range every Sat. morning.  Those were the days when the Lt. would hand me 10-20 boxes of wad cutters (depending on his commitments )and say "shoot".  Now shooting under pressure is another thing altogether.

I've seen both types of police shooters good and poor. I have shot in matches with then and in classes with them. Some do practice others don't. Some are skilled others are not. Much like most jobs some are good at it others get by. But one thing is for sure unless you have faced a guy pointing a gun at you deciding if he wants to shoot you or not you don't have a clue just how the pucker factor can affect your shooting ability. 

[FPH]

Police are some of the worst shoots I've seen.  I was taught to shoot a pistol by the Range Master at my local Police Department.  The majority (not all) of Police Officer only touch the tool of their trade once a year at qualifying.  Later it is holsters till next year.

FPH, I WAS a "Ranger Master", Instructor, Trainer, for Pistol, Revolver, Shotgun, Assault Rifle,  and also, SWAT Trainer, and Leader. I resent what you said about police officers and their shooting ability. Even if it is true.
They would say to me: Sgt. why can't I shoot like you? And I would say: Because I shoot! You don't! The hiarchy in L.E. looks at budgets, and equipment. Tellin them their officers couldn't hit a police car if they were sittin in it, meant nothing to'em.

Officers use to get pissed at me because I was a 15 year old that looked 12 and I could out shoot them.  They didn't realize I put 500-1000 rounds down range every Sat. morning.  Those were the days when the Lt. would hand me 10-20 boxes of wad cutters (depending on his commitments )and say "shoot".  Now shooting under pressure is another thing altogether.

I've seen both types of police shooters good and poor. I have shot in matches with then and in classes with them. Some do practice others don't. Some are skilled others are not. Much like most jobs some are good at it others get by. But one thing is for sure unless you have faced a guy pointing a gun at you deciding if he wants to shoot you or not you don't have a clue just how the pucker factor can affect your shooting ability. 

Yes, There were always the guy swho would come up every Sat. because  they loved to shoot.  They gave me some great advise.  Then there were the guys who were  mad because they had to be there.  L too believe the pucker facctor would play a hugh role in my accuracy,  However, you need to practice to get over that.  These guys will not only have a lack of familiarity with their weapon, then they will have the pucker factor on top of that.  I cringe when I see a count of 50-60 rounds shot by police, and one or two  hits.....I  have seen that scenario.

[SHOOTALL]

I have heard 1 hit in 7 shots for police is average. Gang bangers are  less accurate and those who shoot regularly do much better. Yes when fear is present motor skill is very important .

[Oldshooter]

I have heard 1 hit in 7 shots for police is average.

Just curios, what is the target size, distance to target, and speed of fire? for officers to qualify.
 
I have a daughter(26) that can hit a 6" bullseye at 25 ft with every shot with a 40 cal Glock.
She pulls up and shoots as fast as she can for 4 or five rounds. I always ask her to double tap but ............... She is going to start multiple, and moving targets soon, maybe she will start to conserve ammo for multiple targets