Author Topic: The Ancient Petard..... What is it? What purpose? Building a Fortress Door.  (Read 6025 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline seacoastartillery

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2853
  • Gender: Male
    • seacoastartillery.com
      First of all we want to thank Rivercat again for introducing this subject.  Petards are a fascinating subject to be sure.  These small, but powerful devices were first choice of 16th century "entry teams"!  You don't have to kick the door in when employing a Petard.  It breaks the Lock AND Throws the Door Inward!  Mike and I discussed this special project and believe we should consider all options when building the timber bar locked door.  So we will post our entire collection of Petard images gleaned from the internet and publications over the past four years.  Maybe by seeing them conveniently, all in one group, someone will prompted to post an idea about building an inexpensive, double-door target which will ultimately work out.  Thanks to Cannon Cocker for suggesting oak pallet wood on Rivercat's thread about "Door Petards".  We will call a fiend who collects these and disassembles them for firewood.

Tracy & Mike


This is our favorite type of Petard and can be represented by my 1/2 scale 8 Inch U.S. Land Service Mortar.  We like the easily built cart too, and believe it's use would simplfy emplacement of a fully loaded (2.5 pounds cannon powder) Mortar/Petard.  Fiddling with ropes, poles, hooks, hand drills, etc. while hoisting a 200 pound Petard, does not thrill us too much.  Oh, in German, "Lunte" means explosive fuse and  "Krudt" means crude or coarse powder.  We will use cannon grade Goex for our experiments.




We particularly like this old wood-cut because of all the information on it.  The doors meet in the middle and are shaped typically in this image and we probably will duplicate those shapes.




Look at that carriage and the length of the fuse being lit.  These well dressed sappers are unwilling to be "hoisted with their own petard".




Do you see the thickness of the target plank, similar to the one used in the image with the terms on it?  Unless we are severely mistaken, we would conclude that cutting thru the locking bar with flames and pressure was not the object of these devices.




Hooks, spikes and other hardware items are shown here.




Resistance for the back thrust of the petard is provided here by a handy tree stump or heavy weight brought forward by the sappers.




Looks like another Petard from military stores.  Note the cast handles for sure handling at the point of use.




Another professionally made Petard.  Note that this one has everything secured to the thick target board and requires only a hol to be bored in the door at a slight downward angle, a heavy nail to be pushed into it and the whole device hung on that and the fuse lit.




Sometime military planning is to planning as military music is to music.  The second sapper team assigned to blow the door is really going to have to hustle here.  The gate blast will bring the defenders running!




A section view, now you can see why bronze bells made improvised Petards quite frequently.




Alternate construction of riveted, wrought iron petard is shown here.





     Some materials we have around the shop will be posted tomorrow.  Our budget for this "Special" project is only $100.



Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Ex 49'er

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1975
  • Gender: Male
$100, eh? Petard on the cheap; has a nice ring to it! Sounds like a great project to me. Thanks T&M for an interesting thread.
When you're walking on eggs; don't hop!!

Offline JeffG

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1543
  • Gender: Male
There's letters seal'd, and my two schoolfellows,
Whom I will trust as I will adders fang'd—
They bear the mandate, they must sweep my way
And marshal me to knavery. Let it work;
For 'tis the sport to have the enginer
Hoist with his own petard, an't shall go hard
But I will delve one yard below their mines
And blow them at the moon.
  ;)
Hamlet Act 3, Scene 4
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff

Offline seacoastartillery

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2853
  • Gender: Male
    • seacoastartillery.com
     Ex 49'er,  we sure hope it will be interesting.  I'm certain it will be a lot of fun to build and then test.  The question is:  "Will there be enough of the doors left to test a second time??"



There's letters seal'd, and my two schoolfellows,
Whom I will trust as I will adders fang'd—
They bear the mandate, they must sweep my way
And marshal me to knavery. Let it work;
For 'tis the sport to have the enginer
Hoist with his own petard, an't shall go hard
But I will delve one yard below their mines
And blow them at the moon.
  ;)
Hamlet Act 3, Scene 4   


     Maybe a little explanation is in order here.  Shakespear's play Hamlet was published in 1601 to 1604 as accounts and versions differ.  In this popular play, Hamlet is Prince Hamlet who was heir to the Danish throne when Hamlet's uncle killed Hamlet's father, the King and usurped the throne.  The foul King Claudius is having Prince Hamlet watched very closely and is planning a journey to England for him.

     Some erratic behavior from Hamlet, causes the King to formulate a plan to make sure Hamlet's trip is one way only.  He orders Hamlet's former schoolmates, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern to accompany him.  Hamlet suspects these two are merely agents for Claudius and is on guard against any knavery the King may have planned for him.

     Hamlet suspects heavily that the "letters" his two schoolmates are carrying to the English Court are mandates for his swift execution. Claudius, being the "engineer" in the play, the originator of the "mine" (explosive letters) is Hamlet's target through his two agents.  His plan is to dig under the Kings plot and place a petard which will send the King's agents, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern "to the moon".



     Thanks, Jeff, if I brought this up I would be accused of displaying uppity literature or worse, another "History Rant".  Ha!  Anyway, after lunch I will show you guys what we have on hand to build the target doors, timber locking bar and door pivots.  The one-use stand to hold the Petard can be made of numerous wood cut-offs we always have lying around.

Tracy







 
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline shred

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 156
No doubt you need significant safety blocks or a lot of clearance rearward of the petard (although in the middle ages a couple handy serfs might do).  I'm reminded of ammunition in a fire-- the case travels a long way while the bullet, being a lot heavier, doesn't go far.  In this case, the door & castle could act as the large heavy item and petard as case.   I would hate for M&T to be accidental participants in a horizontal anvil shoot.

Although a nice pit or blocks and door planks laid across it with the petard acting in the downward direction might be interesting to see just how far it does recoil as in the 'hung on a nail' scenario.  The earth would provide a reasonable simulation of a large stone castle.

Offline seacoastartillery

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2853
  • Gender: Male
    • seacoastartillery.com
     Shred,   Thanks for the caution here:


No doubt you need significant safety blocks or a lot of clearance rearward of the petard (although in the middle ages a couple handy serfs might do).  I'm reminded of ammunition in a fire-- the case travels a long way while the bullet, being a lot heavier, doesn't go far.  In this case, the door & castle could act as the large heavy item and petard as case.   I would hate for M&T to be accidental participants in a horizontal anvil shoot.

Although a nice pit or blocks and door planks laid across it with the petard acting in the downward direction might be interesting to see just how far it does recoil as in the 'hung on a nail' scenario.  The earth would provide a reasonable simulation of a large stone castle.



      We won't be parking the Suburban right behind the Petard, if that's what you mean!  Please remember that our 1797 mortar/petard weighs 200 pounds, so we don't expect it to go very far, even if it is tight up against the doors, which, with hardware and timber locking bolt should weigh about 130 pounds.  We have the "serf" safety block you wrote about already planned as part of the firing experiments.  Heck, if you buy Gary a breakfast burrito, he will do just about anything for you!   ;D ;D

Tracy

I think I forgot to bring our mortar/petard image over from the other thread, so here it is.  the 4" Dia. bore and chamber will hold about 2.5 pounds of Cannon Grade Goex.




This is our first sketch of the petard target to be used (abused) in our Petard Tests.




We use Baltic Birch plywood quite a bit around the Seacoast shop.  We have made more than 20 fixtures out of this very strong and dimensionally stable material.  We have piece large and small all over the place.





This is a dead flat glue-up table made of two pieces of Baltic Birch 4 X 5 Feet. 





These are two alignment fixtures used on the 20 ton press.  This is why we have Baltic Birch pieces everywhere around here.





Looks like .050" less than .750".  These Baltic Birch boards usually run .701" to .707" thick.  So three of these would be a little over the 2.00" figure for oak door thickness that Rivercat mentioned on his door petard thread.





We have quite a pile of these 4 X 4 X 48 inch white oak pieces straight from the mill and kiln.  These dimensions are about right for a timber locking bar for a set of doors 5 feet wide.  I think that a 4 X 4 of white oak is stronger that a 6 X 6 of Fir.  What do you think?





These are not stickered, because they are air and kiln dried and stable;  the paint and the lack of stickers makes sure that any changes in moisture are very slow and gradual.





We have quite a stack of 1.25" Dia. rounds and quite a few 2 and 3 inch very thick wall tubes here,  Door hinges?





1.375" X .375" low carbon flat stock 1018.  Hinge parts?





     So what do you guys think?  Can we use this material or should we use other items or do we have to go our and buy some stuff we don't have? 










Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline flagman1776

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (3)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 795
  • Gender: Male
If you can't run fast enough (or far enough), your fuse is too short!

Offline KABAR2

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
So is that a 60 mm mortar shell shipping tube you store your fuse in?
after seeing the thread on Petards I was wondering how long it would take
for T&M to get back to the subject of this experament... it's been about a year to a year and a half since it was last broached......
By the way T&M will we be seeing something on operation coliapy any time soon?
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline seacoastartillery

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2853
  • Gender: Male
    • seacoastartillery.com
   Right you are Flagman, right you are.


     KABAR2,    That a 4.2" Mortar Shell container tube.   You are right, Allen, it didn't take too long, did it?  Operation Coliapy is not a quicky like this one.  Because of all the mortar lengths involved and all the trips out to the range, that one could take 6 to 8 weeks to do completely.  Allen is talking about our Muzzle Blast VS Bore Pressurization experiments on hold untill we get the shop expansion completed. 




     So, what say you guys?  Can we use any of this stuff to built a decent target?  Also, what is better, a 4 X 4 white oak locking bar or a 6 X 6 Fir locking bar.  Both are available in "New" condition.

Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Zulu

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2477
  • Honor is a gift a man gives himself.
    • Wood & Ironworks
 
Quote
Heck, if you buy Gary a breakfast burrito, he will do just about anything for you!   ;D ;D
 
Run Forrest, Run!
 
Zulu
Zulu's website
www.jmelledge.com

Offline JeffG

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1543
  • Gender: Male
On a smaller scale, an iron cast skillet with a charge can give you an idea of the dynamics. A paste of Fg and elmer's glue, makes a ready shape-charge hung on a nail with a long fuse. Open end toward target, and lots of real estate behind.
I have no personal knowlege of this device, however. ::)  use caution. Lol
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff

Offline Androclese

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Petards are not shaped charges, Mr. Monroe didn't have that apple drop on his head till 1896. They were just a large quantity of powder placed against a door, or gate. The Iron container while it did provide a significant increase in tamping/directional effect, originally it was just a container. Prior to the iron containers, the (much larger) charge was in a wood barrel rolled up to the portal of choice. (with a very long fuse) It is rumored that descendants of these men are now all playing as running backs for NFL teams.

Offline KABAR2

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830

Oh he's running after firing something.... I thought at first this was a fart resulting from the breakfast buritto
 
4.2 mortar o.k.  I had nothing to scale the photo with and forgot you mentioned the size of the mortar in the photo.....
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline Frank46

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 707
Thinking out loud would seem to be such a waste of fine oak. But in the interest of exploring how much damage would be done ok by me. I can hear morgan freeman saying "damned english oak" from the movie robin hood. Course a very long fuse would be needed. Or how about some solid wood doors from an old house. Frank

Offline Cannon Cocker

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 511
  • Gender: Male
Great pics of petards guys.  Very interesting.  I have to remember what a wealth of info you guys are for the next time my inquiring mind needs to know. 

Offline seacoastartillery

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2853
  • Gender: Male
    • seacoastartillery.com
 

 Petards are not shaped charges, Mr. Monroe didn't have that apple drop on his head till 1896. They were just a large quantity of powder placed against a door, or gate. The Iron container while it did provide a significant increase in tamping/directional effect, originally it was just a container. Prior to the iron containers, the (much larger) charge was in a wood barrel rolled up to the portal of choice. (with a very long fuse) It is rumored that descendants of these men are now all playing as running backs for NFL teams.   

      Thank you Androclese!  The statement you made, highlighted in red above, is very astute and accurate and important.  The shape of the bore gives directional guidance to the blast and just about everyone can see why, but the other part, that of "tamping" is not so easily understood.  In our case the tamping is merely the weight of our mortar/petard.  It's inertia at rest keeps it pretty much in the same spot as the propellant gasses ejected from it's maw do their violent pushing on the target block which in turn pushes on the doors, bending and moving them, breaking the timber which locks them before the Petard moves appreciably to the rear.  Tamping is the application on the side opposite of a explosive force from the object to be forcefully moved of a material of some weight which resists movement momentarily. 
 
      JeffG was right about the frying pan experiment, use plenty of caution, and we would caution against any such experiments which do not use tested and verified cannon.  Frying pans are thin and can fracture in unpredictable ways; Mike and I use them to fry up some eggs as we camp out occasionally when we do extensive cannon testing for several days at a time.
 
      KABAR2,   I saw that thunder mug go off just as Gary turned around and started to run.  That was the start of the Montana Cannon Shoot and that thump gave everyone a start!  The air was very still and dense as the morning dew evaporated into it.  Quite a THUMP!!
 Gary used a longer fuse on day two!
 
      "Run Forest, Run!" writes Zulu and very appropriate that is too, if you remember the movie, Forest Gump.   Frank46 suggests a very long fuse be used and we agree with him 100%  We NEVER run from our cannon, so an adequate length fuse is necessary.  For this project we will use about two yards of double fuse and walk out to about 60 yards and take shelter behind the engine block and wheels of my Suburban which is good protection from flying bolts or other door hardware which might rebound from the scene of Petard action and door reaction.
 
       I learned how to protect myself at six years old when living in Cobleskill, NY.  My friends and I lived on Grand View Terrace and one year, I think it was in 1954, we got to be junior members of the dynamite crew who were blasting basements for the new homes at the end of our street.  You see the whole area was blessed with loamy soil, but just underneath was some really tough basalt, you know that rock with the six sided crystals in it.  Excavating equipment took way to long to dig that stuff out, so they hired a blasting company to do those basement excavations.  The crew was smart enough to round all of us kids up prior to a blast and let us hide with them behind a bulldozer for cover from flying rocks.  They made us wait for a full minute which seemed like an eternity to us before we could scramble across the pile of broken rock to look for "dynamite wire" which we could keep.  We also knew to tell a blaster if we found any unfired blasting caps and NOT TOUCH them.  Can you imagine what rules would be in effect for kids today in the same situation!
 
      Nice to hear from you Cannon Cocker, glad you like the variety of petards.

 Tracy


To answer a few emails, I must re-post this image from the Tic-Tac-Toe Mortar Contest created by TerryC of Waycross, Georgia.  Yes it is a functional mortar which is not a mock-up of fake of any kind.  While it is a 1/2 scale replica, it still throws a  9 Lb. 3 oz., 4" diameter malleable iron solid shot 800 yards with a 3.5 oz. charge of Fg black powder.



3 years ago this month we were going to use this for our Petard, but as we get older, we prefer to handle lighter objects in our experimentations.  This is the Chamber Piece of the 1832 Paxhans Monster Mortar we built in 2009 and, being 11" long and 11" in diameter, it weighs 267 pounds.  It has a 4" dia. chamber, 8" long which holds 2.5 pounds of Goex Cannon Grade black powder just like the 1797 mortar tube does.






 
 
 
 
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12616
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Normally I would say if you need to run away from your cannon or need a long enough fuse to walk to safety before you cannon ignites, you cannon is unsafe. 

But in reality, this is not a cannon, it is a specialized tool that uses the effect of black powder igniting to operate. It is in the same or similar class of tools as blackpowder splitting wedge or clinker gun, Except its purpose is to break gates and doors, instead of split logs or knock clinkers out of chimneys.  So then Tracy do you think 2 yards is long enough for a fuse?  It will be good to hide behind the suburban, but do wear a helmet to protect from falling debris.

Offline flagman1776

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (3)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 795
  • Gender: Male
Might I offer the observation that with directional artillery...  it is usually best to withdraw on the diagonal so that one is not directly behind the tube...  and to not be in line with it's recoil. 
Carry on.
 

Offline KABAR2

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
I think if fuse is a must a quad sitting there with the motor running and in good order would be best for a quick exit..... at least when you try these experiments you won't have people throwning grenades from the fortress wall or shooting at you.....
Actually for safey a rocket ignighter wired to a fuse and a long electractial lead would be the best way to pop these off.... no need for frantic running and the flaling of arms.......
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline Victor3

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4241





 The above must be the ree-tard petard. Alls he had to do was walk around the fence, and the big door looks like it's already partially open.  :o
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline Mike Scott

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 137
 The above must be the ree-tard petard.  :)


Serious question.  Is the petard more like a "generic bomb" or is it a "shaped charge" or is it "something else"?

Offline KABAR2

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
The above must be the ree-tard petard.  :)


Serious question.  Is the petard more like a "generic bomb" or is it a "shaped charge" or is it "something else"?
What you are calling a "generic bomb" = closed sphere filled with powder and fused, when fired the sphere fractures in many directions so force is not directional.
 .
 "Shaped charge" = a container filled with high explosive compound cast TNT or C4 this uses a copper cone when fired the energy from the shape of the cone creates a jet of hot gas that is centered and highly energetic able to cut through armor plate ect.....
 .
 "Something else" = Petard see drawing provided by Seacoast artillery.... robust container open on one side containing black powder (low explosive) when placed against object to be destroyed energetic force is directed in path of least resistance... the open end.....
 
 
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline seacoastartillery

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2853
  • Gender: Male
    • seacoastartillery.com
   Double D.,    That's a good idea about the hard hats, thanks,  An errant bolt could go way, way up and then come almost straight down.  If 4 feet of fuse is good for 300 yards of walking, then 3 feet will easily cover walking back to 60 or 70 yards. 

     Good advice, Flagman, also very good advice for placement of your powder box behind your gun's position on the firing line.  Our powder box was 25 feet behind our cannon and 15 feet to the left of it when a whole roll of fuse burned up in a shower of sparks which blew over Mike's head directly to the rear.  Good thing the powder box cover was closed and the box was on a diagonal!

     KABAR2,   No need for getaway quads or complex rocketry ignition gear.  Really, and I mean this,  WE NEVER RUN!!  We simply use enough fuse of a known speed so we can light it turn around, walk the required distance to cover, get behind it, count to 20 and BLAM.  Mike and I have done many of the type of carefully crafted experiments where cover is not absolutely necessary, but a common sense, extra precaution which we take advantage of.

     Victor,   You are still incorrigible, simply incorrigible!

     Mike Scott,   Please see what KABAR2 wrote.  Everything you asked about is explained in a logical and forthright manner.  Thanks Allen, we could not have said it better!

     We sure are getting excited now, not only did we find enough Honduras Mahogany to build all of the Chassis structures we have to make for our last Seacoast Artillery piece in our Magnificent Seacoast Gun Series, but we also bought three sheets of 18mm Baltic Birch for the Petard VS Medieval Doors experiment.  The Upper carriage for the 150 Pdr. Armstrong Gun M1864 was made of Rosewood.  We picked up enough to do 6 carriages from a Canadian importer 8 years ago and it has been stable every since.  The Baltic Birch will make a VERY strong set of doors and should hold all of it's steel and iron hardware which will be bolted and riveted just like the ancient ones.  What we need now is a good door design to duplicate.  The following are a few of the many photos of old castle and fortress doors we have looked at.

Tracy


An attractive woman to be sure, but those doors are a bit large, don't you think?




There's a timber locking bar, but those door hinges are too gaudy for us.




Old, riveted, reinforced with iron cross bars, but not a two door design.




A nice double door design, but a little fancy for us, I'm afraid.  Looks like a Church door.




Whoa!!  Hold the phone, that's a design any axeman would hate to see before him.  Quite a "stand-off" there, but with a big enough petard, we believe that this door could be defeated.  It would be difficult to withdraw your tree-trunk battering ram from this one!




Ah, we think this one is just right!  Maybe one-half the rivets would do the job?  Maybe a mid height wrought iron bar to anchor the timber locking bar brackets with bolts.


Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline GGaskill

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5669
  • Gender: Male


I wonder how well those are anchored to the door; perhaps striking with your ram at an angle would dislodge them.  If the anchor bolt goes all the way through, I think it would significantly weaken the door.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline rivercat

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 120
I must admit I am finding this post very interesting Glad you started it!

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12616
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Shaped charge does not require a  copper cone, it only requires a cavity, the copper cone or angle enhances the Monroe effect.

Offline KABAR2

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830

I was running a thread on my antique firearms and swords on a forum and this was the door I chose for the intro if the barred gate was down I think you'd need more than a Petard.......note to the right side the firing port aimed directly at the gate area......I believe the two windows on either side may have been firing slits but inlarged in more peaceful times.... also not seen in the photo is an upper firing slit and I believe a murder hole directly above the gate.....
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline KABAR2

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
Shaped charge does not require a  copper cone, it only requires a cavity, the copper cone or angle enhances the Monroe effect.
True but most purpose built shape charges and anti-tank rounds use either a copper or in some cases a steel cone and it is the easiest way to explain the dynamics to someone unfirmilar with their workings......
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline KABAR2

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830

How are you going to construct the door? a proper fortress door should be three layers thick  with the center layer being laid across the others and then riveted and reinforced many times the locking bars were made of iron and were in three locations one near the bottom one at mid hight and one nearer the top.........

Do you think the neigbors would think me a bit odd if I added
these to the front door?.....  ::)
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline Zulu

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2477
  • Honor is a gift a man gives himself.
    • Wood & Ironworks
Kabar,
I suspect your neighbors already find you as odd as my neighbors find me. ;D
Who cares? ::)
Zulu
Zulu's website
www.jmelledge.com