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Author Topic: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"  (Read 3765 times)

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Offline MTNRGR

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PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« on: March 25, 2013, 07:00:10 AM »
Just wondering how long it would survive in wet ground and still be waterproof with northern freeze/thaw cycles? Past my life expectancy I hope.
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"All America lies at the end of the wilderness road, and our past is not a dead past, but still lives in us. Our forefathers had civilization inside themselves, the wild outside. We live in the civilization they created, but within us this wilderness still lingers. What they dreamed, we live, and what they lived, we dream".                      Thomas K. Whipple

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2013, 07:22:06 AM »
Well some things to consider , how deep is the frost line ? What fittings are you going to use on the ends ? Are you going to use sch 40 or foam core ? how much ground movement do you experince and tree roots ?
 Been a plumber for 40 years and I can tell you what I have seen PVC pipe do/react to things like mentioned above. If you are below the frost line and below 12 inches of soil minium  freezing will not be a concern and also sun light will not effect the pipe .
 Fittings are important as is how you make your joints. One end should have a blind cap DWV fittings will work but SCH 40 pressure fittings are better.
Then the access end , If I wanted a strong and good seal I would construct a double seal. Sau you use 6 inch pipe, first slip a 8X6 inch fernco over the pipe and slide down out of the way. Next use a DWV female adapter with a flush CO plug. once installed slide the fernco up so you can place a 8 inch hollow plug over the 6 inch CO and tighten the fernco in place. I would use good pipe dope made for PVC threads on the plug and if this tube was not to be reused then glue the fernco in place and cut to access.
 SCH 40 vs Foam Core , foam core will resist cracking where SCH 40 is more ridgid and more brittle.
 place awayb from trees with large root structures and also where ground has alot of movement.If you can't protect the pipe with insulation , padding etc .
 Pretty much what we do as plumbers when installing PVC.
 
 Keep in mind a pipe in the ground is not difficult to locate even one burried vertical.
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Offline FPH

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2013, 07:29:42 AM »
Don't forget the primer before you glue.
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Offline MTNRGR

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2013, 07:43:03 AM »
Awesome tip, thanks
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"All America lies at the end of the wilderness road, and our past is not a dead past, but still lives in us. Our forefathers had civilization inside themselves, the wild outside. We live in the civilization they created, but within us this wilderness still lingers. What they dreamed, we live, and what they lived, we dream".                      Thomas K. Whipple

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2013, 07:47:48 AM »
Quote from: FPH on March 25, 2013, 07:29:42 AM
Don't forget the primer before you glue.

Thanks that is very important . Anothe thing is if possible flood the container with nitrogen before closing .Or if serious place a schrader fitting in the plug and pull a vacum then load with nitrogen .
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Offline MTNRGR

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2013, 07:50:14 AM »
I thought of that (vaccum sealing it), but won't that just give me a weak point in the container. I obviously know nothing about plumbing.
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"All America lies at the end of the wilderness road, and our past is not a dead past, but still lives in us. Our forefathers had civilization inside themselves, the wild outside. We live in the civilization they created, but within us this wilderness still lingers. What they dreamed, we live, and what they lived, we dream".                      Thomas K. Whipple

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2013, 09:15:35 AM »
If installed correctly it should be fine and a tad of positive pressure would be good . The extra seal from the fernco would protect the schrader fitting . but flooding would be almost as good if oxygen is forced out.
 Also if larger pipe dia is used it might be best to reduce the opening to as small as pratical. It would be easier to get a better seal .
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Offline spruce

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2013, 10:13:57 AM »
Read a good article on this just a couple weeks ago.  It was on one of the survival or bushcraft sites.  I have no idea which site it was - I was just killing some time on a snowy day and exploring a bunch of different sites.
 
A couple of things I remember is they coated the valuables with grease, wrapped and sealed in plastic, put in some dessicant packs, and glued the caps on the PVC pipe.  Author dug one up he had buried for several years and it was just fine.
 
Biggest problem for him was finding it - said he spent a couple days digging before he actually found it.  Was only a few feet away when he started digging, but when he initially expanded his search he went in the wrong direction!  He recommended you have several ways to relocate it.
 
Don't use your cell phone to mark it, don't leave it on a GPS (these could be confiscated).  Besides who knows if GPS will still be in operation when it comes time to retrieve the valuables.
 
A way to make detection more difficult (for someone else) is to pick a spot where there is a lot of metal scattered around.  Sites like a junkyard, old factory site, etc.  Also "seeding" the site yourself with a bunch of metal scattered around (old rusty stuff that looks like it was dumped there a long time ago), an old saw blade laid roughly parallel to the valuables, but on or near the surface.  Basically anyway to confuse or discourage someone with a metal detector from continuing to search the area.
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2013, 10:20:37 AM »
Hmmmmmm! very nice fellas, was wondering about that myself.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2013, 10:28:20 AM »
Quote from: spruce on March 25, 2013, 10:13:57 AM
Read a good article on this just a couple weeks ago.  It was on one of the survival or bushcraft sites.  I have no idea which site it was - I was just killing some time on a snowy day and exploring a bunch of different sites.
 
A couple of things I remember is they coated the valuables with grease, wrapped and sealed in plastic, put in some dessicant packs, and glued the caps on the PVC pipe.  Author dug one up he had buried for several years and it was just fine.
 
Biggest problem for him was finding it - said he spent a couple days digging before he actually found it.  Was only a few feet away when he started digging, but when he initially expanded his search he went in the wrong direction!  He recommended you have several ways to relocate it.
 
Don't use your cell phone to mark it, don't leave it on a GPS (these could be confiscated).  Besides who knows if GPS will still be in operation when it comes time to retrieve the valuables.
 
A way to make detection more difficult (for someone else) is to pick a spot where there is a lot of metal scattered around.  Sites like a junkyard, old factory site, etc.  Also "seeding" the site yourself with a bunch of metal scattered around (old rusty stuff that looks like it was dumped there a long time ago), an old saw blade laid roughly parallel to the valuables, but on or near the surface.  Basically anyway to confuse or discourage someone with a metal detector from continuing to search the area.
I read that also , it may have been in a magazine also. One thing to consider is when you cement blind caps on both ends the second cap is going to bleed escaping air from inside as you compress it on. It can be difficult to keep from having a small leak . The reason is the escaping air will cure the cement and it will not seal . Some wipe around the joint with cement hoping some will creep in and seal , plumbers call this a bandaid  ;D It's a 50/50 bet .
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Offline MTNRGR

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2013, 10:29:13 AM »
Yeah I was planning on coating my "valuables" in cosmoline, apparently that works good on valuables ;D .
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"All America lies at the end of the wilderness road, and our past is not a dead past, but still lives in us. Our forefathers had civilization inside themselves, the wild outside. We live in the civilization they created, but within us this wilderness still lingers. What they dreamed, we live, and what they lived, we dream".                      Thomas K. Whipple

Offline MTNRGR

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2013, 10:33:54 AM »
Dang this is more complicated than I thought, I just thought I could cut some pipe slap some caps on and bobs your uncle. I didn't think about the pressure from compression but it makes sense.
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-Jason


"All America lies at the end of the wilderness road, and our past is not a dead past, but still lives in us. Our forefathers had civilization inside themselves, the wild outside. We live in the civilization they created, but within us this wilderness still lingers. What they dreamed, we live, and what they lived, we dream".                      Thomas K. Whipple

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2013, 10:36:45 AM »
ha!
Quote
and bobs your uncle
never heard that one before and I have heard a few. must be a "northern" expression.  ;)
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2013, 10:38:19 AM »
you could use a JIM cap ( a stiff rubber cap with a clamp ) on one end . Then place in several sealed heavy duty concrator grade trash bags each sealed.
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2013, 10:44:00 AM »
you'll want to stash some good rags
and solvent and patches too with
a rod and fittings of course.
will you have access to digging tools
and tools to open your cache
when the time comes to withdraw
your "deposit"? does the ground
freeze where you are as to make
digging difficult or impossible?
also, need to consider if you're being
watched when you dig,and will someone
be right behind you to relieve you of
your treasures. who all will know what
you have stashed and where it's at?
can they be trusted? will they give away
your secret by accidentally speaking
of it without thinking of who heard?
or of who that person might tell?
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Offline MTNRGR

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2013, 10:44:59 AM »
Roberts your fathers brother, or Bobs your uncle. I say it to much, my wife gets mad, especially since my 3 little kids say it to her now..lol ;D
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-Jason


"All America lies at the end of the wilderness road, and our past is not a dead past, but still lives in us. Our forefathers had civilization inside themselves, the wild outside. We live in the civilization they created, but within us this wilderness still lingers. What they dreamed, we live, and what they lived, we dream".                      Thomas K. Whipple

Offline Ranger99

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2013, 10:46:59 AM »
also, is the selected location on your
own property? will a utility company
or anyone ever have reason to dig
where i'm going to put this cache?


just some things to consider.
it's still a good idea.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2013, 10:51:25 AM »
of course you could install say 5-6 feet of 6 or 8 inch well casing with a cap on one end and a lockable water tite cap on the other and hide in plain sight.
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Offline MTNRGR

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2013, 10:51:50 AM »
Ranger99,
I thought through 90% of your list, but a couple I hadn't, especially digging in the winter, and opening. I own a 75 acre farm with fields, hardwoods, a big swamp and some hills so I feel pretty "safe" in regard to where my bury location will be and any withdrawels I might need to make.
Why would I need solvent, patches a rod and fittings for "valuables"?.....jk... ;)
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"All America lies at the end of the wilderness road, and our past is not a dead past, but still lives in us. Our forefathers had civilization inside themselves, the wild outside. We live in the civilization they created, but within us this wilderness still lingers. What they dreamed, we live, and what they lived, we dream".                      Thomas K. Whipple

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2013, 10:57:21 AM »
to clean the gun grease off  ::)
as for opening PVC pipe any good cord or string ( mason line or such) will cut thru even sch 80 pipe in little time . Thin wire cable also works well.  The core string out of para cord should get you in in a jiffy.
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Offline MTNRGR

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2013, 10:58:18 AM »
Shootall,
That is definatly a good idea with limited space, I feel pretty confident that I can get secluded enough to be safe. I've got some thick nasty stuff that deer even avoid after they are shot.
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"All America lies at the end of the wilderness road, and our past is not a dead past, but still lives in us. Our forefathers had civilization inside themselves, the wild outside. We live in the civilization they created, but within us this wilderness still lingers. What they dreamed, we live, and what they lived, we dream".                      Thomas K. Whipple

Offline MTNRGR

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2013, 10:59:44 AM »
Really??? Never knew that, I will have to try that when I get home. I don't doubt you just seems like a cool thing to see.
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-Jason


"All America lies at the end of the wilderness road, and our past is not a dead past, but still lives in us. Our forefathers had civilization inside themselves, the wild outside. We live in the civilization they created, but within us this wilderness still lingers. What they dreamed, we live, and what they lived, we dream".                      Thomas K. Whipple

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2013, 11:02:01 AM »
Quote from: Ranger99 on March 25, 2013, 10:44:00 AM
you'll want to stash some good rags
and solvent and patches too with
a rod and fittings of course.
will you have access to digging tools
and tools to open your cache
when the time comes to withdraw
your "deposit"? does the ground
freeze where you are as to make
digging difficult or impossible?
also, need to consider if you're being
watched when you dig,and will someone
be right behind you to relieve you of
your treasures. who all will know what
you have stashed and where it's at?
can they be trusted? will they give away
your secret by accidentally speaking
of it without thinking of who heard?
or of who that person might tell?

maybe find someone you dont trust /like and get them to dig it and then bury them with it. no problem!  :o    ;D
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2013, 11:04:11 AM »
don't go fast enough to get hot enough to melt string or just have extra and go at it . like polishing shoes. We do it alot in ditches where its a pain to dig out room for a saw .........
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2013, 11:05:18 AM »
Lowe's sells them in the plumbing dept as cable saws
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Offline MTNRGR

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2013, 11:08:15 AM »
Yeah and make sure they are my size, then I will have a clothes and boot cache' too, eh. ;)
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"All America lies at the end of the wilderness road, and our past is not a dead past, but still lives in us. Our forefathers had civilization inside themselves, the wild outside. We live in the civilization they created, but within us this wilderness still lingers. What they dreamed, we live, and what they lived, we dream".                      Thomas K. Whipple

Offline spruce

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2013, 11:27:36 AM »
SHOOTALL jogged my memory - that article I mentioned is in this months Backwoodshome magazine.!
 
I read it on their website - it's the first article listed on their homepage, Claire Wolfe author.
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2013, 11:29:34 AM »
the only reason i said that is because
more people watch you at times you
wouldn't think of than you are aware of.
i've been in the back of my teeny property
doing fence repairs, brush cutting,etc. and
had neighbors ask at a later time if i had
got finished with my repair, did i have any
difficulty, etc. and this being to where they
cannot see from their houses, or road, etc.
i had a neighbor ask several years back why
i hadn't put out any feeders for deer that year,
and was i going to. the place i had been putting
a feeder out is hidden from view of all neighboring
houses and not visible from the road frontage
being on the other side of a 50 some odd foot rise.
also, folks in small towns take notice of what
other folks buy in stores. "yep- i saw mr. ranger99
today. he bought 40 feet of 6 inch pvc pipe and
a bunch of fittings. what do reckon he's doing
with that? "
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Offline MTNRGR

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2013, 11:45:42 AM »
Ranger99,
I think you are 100% correct there. Never let your guard down and trust no one dispite how secure you think you are is the bottom line I guess.
A good reminder, thank you sir.
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"All America lies at the end of the wilderness road, and our past is not a dead past, but still lives in us. Our forefathers had civilization inside themselves, the wild outside. We live in the civilization they created, but within us this wilderness still lingers. What they dreamed, we live, and what they lived, we dream".                      Thomas K. Whipple

Offline Ranger99

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Re: PVC Pipe/Cement for burying "valuables"
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2013, 11:54:08 AM »
not to mention all of us
now know  ;D
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