Author Topic: .357 Rem. Magnum (Read 3418 times)

Lawdog · « **on:** February 18, 2004, 12:12:14 PM »

Anyone hunt deer size game with one? What about using Hornady XTP bullets in one for deer and/or hog hunting? What is your favorite load for hunting with the .357? Lawdog

Jim Stacy · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2004, 01:31:02 PM »

Most people will say don't do it ,but the 357 will kill either if you place your bullet carefully. If I shoot deer with a 357 I use 17.2/296/158XTP or 18.5/296/146 Speer 3/4 jacket out of a contender. I have never tried to shoot a hog with a 357 but I bet a proper head shot would work. Some have used the 180 xtp with a max H110 or 296 load and have written of their success . If it were a little hog ,100# or less, I would use a head shot or pass . If the hog was in the 200# class I'd use a different caliber to keep them from getting up close and personal. The heavier cast bullet loads would probably work well but I generally dont shoot anything heavier than the 358429 out of a 357 Contender or revolver . The above loads should not be used in any revolver other than a large frame 357 , like Mod 27&28 , Taurus large frame and Ruger GP100 or Blackhawk . The light frame 357's --K frame size will not take this level of load so beware if you try to use them.

Dave in WV · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2004, 01:42:44 PM »

I like a Rem. 158gr HP over a max load of H110. You need expansion with a .357.

Mikey · « **Reply #3 on:** February 19, 2004, 03:56:43 AM »

The 357 magnum will surprise you. Many shooters are still caught up with the use of the 158 gn factory loads, or the lightweight police loads when the they of the 357 in the field for use on game the size of whitetail or hog.

Elmer Keith found out a long time ago that the 357 excelled with the heavier loads and he preferred the use of his 168 and 173 grain semi-wadcutters when using the 357 in the field. In addition, it seems that the 180 gn xtp that is not a great performer, either in the velocity or penetration areas, unless it is used in longer barrelled, closed chamber guns like the Contender.

What does work on those animals from a revolver is a hard cast 200 gn round nose flat point or semi-wadcutter over a full charge of WW296 or H110. These loads penetrate where the 158s and 180s will not and they will bust bone on the way in. I have never recovered one of those bullets when used on chest shots on whitetails out to about 75 yds. What is interesting about those loads is that, from the Winchester reloading data I have, they are lower pressure loads than the 158s or 180s, and can easily be shot in the K-frame sized 357s without damage to the revolver or shooter. Those were favorite loads in the silhouette games and would knock over the ram at 200 yds from a 4" Model 19.

Both my revolver and my belt loops carry the 200 gn cast swc over 12.4 of WW296 for a stated 1335'/sec at 35K pressures, while the 158s are listed to 1400 but at better than 40K pressures. Just my 2 cents worth guys. Thanks. Mikey.

WD45 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 19, 2004, 04:33:02 AM »

Check out the back issues of sixgunner.com . There is a lot of info there on the 357 mag. search through the articles as the title may not reflect all the info an article may contain. It is still good reading though

Lawdog · « **Reply #5 on:** February 19, 2004, 11:17:33 AM »

I should have stated the reason for asking. I just acquired a NIB special ordered 8" barrel Centennial model Ruger Security Six that I scoped. It is really an accurate little revolver and a little more easy to pack around than my old friend, a Super Blackhawk .44. While I carried a .357 for many years as an LEO the only game I ever shot with it was injured deer using the same loads I carried for stopping a man. They always worked but the range was always measured in feet not yards. I was wondering about using the Hornady 158 gr. FP-XTP bullet and wanted handgun hunters opinion on it. Lawdog

Jim Stacy · « **Reply #6 on:** February 19, 2004, 12:33:01 PM »

Have had several security sixes over the years and they are tough guns good strong frame and cylinder . You should get good velocity what ever load you settle on with an 8" barrel . I can't comment on the 200 lead pill but I have used the 358429, 173 /13.5/2400 and accurate and good velocity. I f the 200 grain load is doing 1335 it should work well also.

Gregory · « **Reply #7 on:** February 19, 2004, 01:57:47 PM »

Lawdog

I've taken a total of one deer with a 357 Mag So I'm no expert by any stretch. I did use the same bullet Jim mentioned, the Lyman 170 gr cast SWC to take a small doe at 30 yds. The gun was a 10" TC Contender.
Broadside lung shot, complete penetration and deer went 40 yds and curled up and died.

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #8 on:** February 19, 2004, 07:28:09 PM »

I hunt quite a bit with my 357 Blackhawk. I've killed a few deer with it.

I've had good success with a maimum load using XTP-FPs. This past season I killed a deer with My Blackhawk, and another with my 1894C rifle. I used the Remington(bulk) 158g SPs on both deer, and the results were great on both.

Like Dave in WV, I too like a little expansion on deer with my 357s, but I also strive for complete penetration on chest shots(even through the shoulders).

Sixgun · « **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2004, 03:31:14 AM »

Lawdog,

I have killed a couple of Mule deer does with a 4" Ruger Security Six. One nice thing about them is that the cylinder is a tad bit longer than the other 357 revolvers and I used a 180gr Speer, 35 rem bullet. It fit in the cylinder and I had two one shot kills on deer with mine. I wasn't hunting with it at the time, either time. I was just out pushing cows around and I always carry a revolver when I am horseback in the hills. The first one was 75 yards, broad side, standing still. It never left its tracks. It was uphill at a steep angle and rolled down the hill right at me and my horse thought it was after her. We had a small rodeo but after the horse calmed down, I loaded the deer on and I had to walk a couple of miles. The second one was in the same area. It was running broadside and when I shot my two boys both agreed that I shot it in the butt. It was only 25 yards and I didn't think I did but it stopped at about 70 yards out and looked back over its back at me. I let one fly and broke its neck. When we got to it I had punched the first shot right through the heart. It was already dead but didn't know it yet. None of the three bullets expanded much from the size of the exit wounds. None were recovered.

I carry a SBH now but still have the Security Six. It was a good design.

Sixgun

Raging480 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 20, 2004, 05:56:25 AM »

I don't know exactly how a 158 xtp measures up to a factory Remington 165 grain corelokt, but FWIW...My only experience was with a S&W 686 6" with a 60 yard shot on a spike buck with the Remington ammo. It was a broadside hit, right on the shoulder. The bullet smashed the shoulder to bits, but did not penetrate the chest cavity. Deer was tracked, and follow up shots were necessary to put the deer down. I learned a couple things that day, to use heavier bullets with a wide meplat, and to avoid the shoulder and go for the lungs.

mec · « **Reply #11 on:** March 12, 2004, 01:29:39 AM »

The 158 XTPcan be interesting from a long .357. I shot a small buck at 30 yards with a Bisley 7.5" loaded witht he 17.2 296 load. It would clock over 1500 fps from this revolver which is about 100 fps over the maximum rating for the bullet. The bullets tend to fly apart. This one hit bone where the neck meets the shoulder and virtualy decapitated the deer. About a one inch strip of skin was all that held things together.

I shot an armadillo with the same load. Sucker hyperinflated and bounced about 3 feet off the ground and exploded. The 158 should probably be loaded to no more than 1400 fps for deer sized game.

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2004, 07:15:42 AM »

Quote from: mec

The 158 XTPcan be interesting from a long .357. I shot a small buck at 30 yards with a Bisley 7.5" loaded witht he 17.2 296 load. It would clock over 1500 fps from this revolver which is about 100 fps over the maximum rating for the bullet. The bullets tend to fly apart. This one hit bone where the neck meets the shoulder and virtualy decapitated the deer. About a one inch strip of skin was all that held things together.

I shot an armadillo with the same load. Sucker hyperinflated and bounced about 3 feet off the ground and exploded. The 158 should probably be loaded to no more than 1400 fps for deer sized game.

Were you using XTP-HPs? That sounds exactly like my experiences with them at higher velocities. They don't actually blow apart from my findings, but just expand so violently that they make a huge mess, and tend to only penetrate a little ways. At 1700 fps from a rifle, the 158g XTP-HPs will tear a groundhog nearly in half at close range.

The 158g XTP-FPs are a whole lot tougher. They'll definately bust through a deers shoulder blade with ease when fired up to even 1700 fps. Even at very close range, I've hit deer with that particular load, and busted the facing shoulder, tore up the vitals, and even in some cases busted the off shoulder as well. The XTP-FPs are definately some great performers on deer sized game.

Larry Gibson · « **Reply #13 on:** March 12, 2004, 08:52:42 AM »

Lawdog

"I should have stated the reason for asking. I just acquired a NIB special ordered 8" barrel Centennial model Ruger Security Six that I scoped. It is really an accurate little revolver and a little more easy to pack around than my old friend, a Super Blackhawk .44. While I carried a .357 for many years as an LEO the only game I ever shot with it was injured deer using the same loads I carried for stopping a man. They always worked but the range was always measured in feet not yards. I was wondering about using the Hornady 158 gr. FP-XTP bullet and wanted handgun hunters opinion on it. Lawdog

[/quote]"

In my 18 years in LE (NE Oregon) I saw a lot of deer and other critters shot with a variety of handguns and loads, shot quite a few of them myself. The .357 will do the job nicely on deer if the hunter is reasonable in range and bullet placement. Deer are not that hard to kill. I used to use the Lyman 358429 with Keith's classic load of 2400. It does the job but I've observed the faster stepping 125 HP/SPs do a better job. They give all the penetration needed and will expand given a muzzle velocity above 1400 fps.

I currently use a Security Six as my .357 carry revolver for hunting and am becoming quite fond of it. Mine has a 6" barrel and the load I use is the max load listed of Bluedot in the Speer manual for 125 gr bullets. I use this 16.4 gr load under the 125 gr FP/XTP and it runs 1690 fps out of the Ruger. This is near the max useable velocity range Hornady gives for that bullet. I find this load extremely accurate and very deadly on critters up through deer. If you choose to try this load I know you will work up as usual becuase it IS a max load. I have shot up one brick of bullets (500) and am 2 boxes into the second brick with this load. I would not use this load in a K frame S&W, an L frame maybe, but the Ruger just loves them. I have also replaced the Ruger grips with Pachmyer Gripper Grips as this load is "snappy". I would imagine you would be in the mid 1700 fps with your 8" barrel and this load. It may be that you will want to go to the 158 XTPs as that velocity may be a bit much for the 125 FP/XTPs. I know in a 10" Contender barrel the same load runs 2020 fps with the FP/XTPs and is much to explosive for use on deer. Let me know what you come up with.

Larry Gibson

mec · « **Reply #14 on:** March 15, 2004, 04:42:59 PM »

[

Were you using XTP-HPs? That sounds exactly like my experiences with them at higher velocities. They don't actually blow apart from my findings, but just expand so violently that they make a huge mess, and tend to only penetrate a little ways. At 1700 fps from a rifle, the 158g XTP-HPs will tear a groundhog nearly in half at close range.

The 158g XTP-FPs are a whole lot tougher. They'll definately bust through a deers shoulder blade with ease when fired up to even 1700 fps. Even at very close range, I've hit deer with that particular load, and busted the facing shoulder, tore up the vitals, and even in some cases busted the off shoulder as well. The XTP-FPs are definately some great performers on deer sized game.[/quote]

When I recovered the xtp hps as above from various media including wet pack phone books or water, they weren't just expanded, they were smitherened. I remember hoping that hornady would never find out about this and make them tougher as I was using them like varmint bullets. They would stop running skunks like a clock with a broken spring and thourougly puree the chest cavity of a jackrabbit. I've had things run off when hit with non expanding semi-wadcutters but never did with these from that long ruger bisley.

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #15 on:** March 15, 2004, 05:13:25 PM »

That's interesting MEC. Were those 158g XTPs or 125g?

I don't mean to keep bugging you, but I love hearing about other peoples experience with stuff like this.

mec · « **Reply #16 on:** March 15, 2004, 05:47:17 PM »

They were 158s. I got the load from a Speer Manual and other people who also were substituting the xtp hollowpoint. This was when they listed the maximum pressures for .357 at anywhere from 42-46,000 cup and such loads are much reduced in the current manuals.

The 7.5" barrel made very effective use of the loads and the velocities were significantly higher than listed in the handbooks -from a 6" barrel. I was getting 125 grain velocities from the heavier bullets and they were acting like varmint loads.

W · « **Reply #17 on:** March 16, 2004, 03:05:32 AM »

I've taken 6 N.Y. whitetails with a handgun, 3 with a .44 SBH and 3 with a .357 Ruger Blackhawk.
With the .357 I've used factory 158 gr. JHP's(Remington). All 3 deer were shot (1 shot) broadside behind the shoulder at 20 to 60 yds. The 158 mushroomed perfectly but never exited the other side. All of the 158 JHP's came to rest on the far side under the hide. All 3 deer ran about 40 to 60 yds after the shot.
I don't have access to a gun club anymore, so I only got out to shoot the gun once last year. This last season while deer hunting I missed. I guess practice is more important than caliber .

Old Griz · « **Reply #18 on:** March 21, 2004, 05:39:56 PM »

:cb2: I love my .357s, but when I bought my first .44 mag. it became my huntin' gun. However, I did experiment with the heavier .357 loads. One I might look at is the 180-gr. Federal CastCore. Had a friend who tried em in his gun, but didn't have any luck. They patterned so erratically that he said he'd have to be riding what ever it was he was shooting at to be able to hit it. Has anyone else used this ammo? What were your results?

Bullseye · « **Reply #19 on:** March 22, 2004, 02:32:50 PM »

I had some 180 gr XTP's left over from my 357 Max I just sold so I loaded them up this weekend. They shot great thru my GP100 with a 4" barrel. Actually the best groups I have ever gotten, 1" at 25 yards without a rest. Do not know how they would work on critters, but I might try some more of them. Actually had the gun sold but the guy did not pay me when he was supposed to, so I might just keep it.

Lawdog · « **Reply #20 on:** March 23, 2004, 01:36:37 PM »

Well I loaded up a bunch of Hornady 158 gr. FP-XTP bullets ahead of a full boat load of H110. Velocity is running just over 1700 fps. and I took this with me this last weekend while my granddaughter went on her first hunt(wild hogs). I got my chance on a nice young porker of just under 150 lbs. dressed at the 55 yard mark. Complete pass through on a broadside shot. The little porker dropped at the shot. So far the 158 FP-XTP are working fine. Lawdog

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #21 on:** March 23, 2004, 05:01:29 PM »

Congratulations! Thanks for the report.

handirifle · « **Reply #22 on:** April 06, 2004, 05:37:31 PM »

Lawdog
Was that a handgun or rifle you're getting 1700fps with? Seems high for a revolver.

Lawdog · « **Reply #23 on:** April 07, 2004, 11:39:51 AM »

handirifle,

Handgun. A 10" barrel Ruger Security Six that I got a while back. I though it was high too but there are no signs of pressure and it is very accurate in this Ruger. Lawdog

handirifle · « **Reply #24 on:** April 07, 2004, 02:30:00 PM »

Wow That's cookin'

Lawdog · « **Reply #25 on:** April 09, 2004, 11:37:29 AM »

handirifle,

I guess you want the load I am using. It is 16.1 gr. of H110 for 1,696 fps. using the Hornady 158 gr. FP-XTP bullet. While not MAX it is fairly hot but there is no sign of excessive pressure. The reason I settled on this is because it gives me the best accuracy using the Hornady XTP bullet. Small groups and tight lines to you. Lawdog

Raging480 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 04, 2004, 06:08:22 AM »

When I first started handgun hunting about 4 years ago, I was only interested in jacketed bullets. Well, today I was able to sneak off to the range for about an hour with a hunting buddy who is also on this forum. I brought with me a box of handloaded 180 grain Cast performance bullets loaded over 12.9 grains of W-296. This is a new load for me, especially after last year's results with the 165 grain corelokt ammo. I also had some 170 grain Speer GDSP loaded over 15.4 grains of Li'l Gun. I must say, I am impressed with the CAST bullet. I do not have a chrony, so I cannot speak of the velocity, but I really like this round. Shooting my 6" 686, I found the load to be loud, but the pressure and recoil was noticibly less than the jacketed loads. I only shot a couple dozen rounds of the cast, but my best was a group of 4 in about 3" at 50 yards, with open sights. These bullets have the gas check on them, and my barrel did not show any signs of leading, whatsoever. I think I'll call CPBC and buy some more bullets...I am sold!

Mikey · « **Reply #27 on:** June 04, 2004, 08:52:26 AM »

Raging480: If Cast Performance makes a 200 gn SWC, give them a try over 12.4 of WW296 - you might be even happier. Mikey.

Sverre A. · « **Reply #28 on:** June 04, 2004, 09:00:20 AM »

In Africa - I have shot 2 blesbok, 2 impala and 1 warthog with this bullet - 30 - 70 yds. 3 of them went through the animals. 2 was found. One at an impala at 55 yds. The bullet went in at the left frontleg`s muscle (it stood in an angel), and was found in the stomach. The other one (warthog) was hit at the same maner - and was found in the right
backleg`s muscle. Both of the bullets had expanded "as the bible say" and the recoverweight was 82 and 86%. Perfect - if you ask me. And one thing with this bullet - compared to my hard cast in .44 Mag. and .454 Casull: I could see the "shot-signs" every time. With the .44 and .454 with hard cast - a lot of the animals have not showed me that they were hit. But animals heavier than 140 pounds/longer than 60 yds - I would choose something bigger than .357 (but I have no experience shooting larger animals with it - so maybe I`m wrong).

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #29 on:** June 04, 2004, 09:27:28 AM »

When I was a lad, oh so many years ago!, my father told of an incident while he was fishing on Deer Creek (outside of Chico, CA). He heard a gunshot upstream from his position and after awhile a guy came by and told him he'd killed a black bear with his 357 mag. Shortly after that Dad came across the bear laying on the trail. In TODAY'S world this would be heavily frowned upon but back in those days nobody thought much of it. The point is, the 357 did the job with one shot. It'll take a deer for sure.