Author Topic: Swiss Powder?  (Read 1222 times)

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Offline Will52100

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Swiss Powder?
« on: February 17, 2004, 08:53:11 PM »
It looks like my only local supplier of Black Powder will no longer handle it due to restrictions and slow selling.

I guess I'll break down and order a 25 lb. case of swiss, but what granulation?

I was using 3f Goex for everything, 45-70 to cap n' ball revolvers.

Thanks,

Will
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Offline PowderFlask2

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Swiss Powder?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2004, 02:22:12 AM »
Will

Why not order what you want from Powder Inc. or Coonies or maine powder house

you get my drift

Powder Inc has been great for me and have been pleasant and screwed up one time and stood behind their product 100%

They will deliver to your door (thats pretty local for me)

Offline Will52100

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Swiss Powder?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2004, 02:47:37 AM »
I should be more specific, I'll be ordering from Main powder supply, and will be ordering Swiss for the rifle and Elephant for the cap n' balls.

The thing is what works best in cartriges, 1.5 f or 2 or 3?  I was useing Goex 3F with good results, and a little more kick than 2F.  What works best for Swiss?

Thanks,

Will
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Offline Double D

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Swiss Powder?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2004, 02:55:52 AM »
Here are the links for ordering and buying black powder in bulk.

Powder

http://www.elephantblackpowder.com./   Main link leading to
http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/Sporting/sporting.html (click on distributors, then click on the distributor in your area)
http://www.powderinc.com/index.shtml Powder Inc offers shipments in five pound lots
http://www.goexpowder.com/
http://www.mainepowderhouse.com/
Back Creek Gun Shop, Winchester, Va. 540-888-3349


Powder Inc offers shipments in five pound lots and they have Swiss.

You will find the is list posted over on the Blackpowder Mortar and Cannon board

Offline Will52100

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Swiss Powder?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2004, 05:42:53 PM »
Thanks Double D, I think though that I'll go ahead and get a 25 lb. shipment, it might last a little while.  So far I've been going through 2 to 4 pounds a month.  I work offshore so I have 14 days off a month to try and get a little shooting in! :)
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Offline Ray7

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swiss powder
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2004, 11:26:19 AM »
Will,
I have also been using goex 3f almost exclusively in 45/90. I came by a can of earlier lot swiss and duplicated my goex 80 gr. load to see the difference between the two.....the goex is 2003 3f and the same volume of swiss is 3 grains hevier by weight...a little more dense. The 80 gr. goex load gave me 1285 av. fps.....the swiss load which weighed 83 grains gave me 1337 av. fps. I also found out that the swiss reacted to blow tubing much better than the goex...the fouling was softer....easier to chamber the next round which are long bore rider type bullets.
Ray

Offline Will52100

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Swiss Powder?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2004, 07:56:26 PM »
So what your saying is that I shouldn't have a problem with 3f swiss in my 45-70?  Right now I'm a rank beginner and want consitancy more than anything else.  Would like a little more "umph" if 3f swiss will give consitancy as well as 2f.

I'm loading 500 grain postal flat points, neck sizing the case and belling the mouth and shoving the bullet in with no crimp, powder compression about 1/8".  Worked well with the goex, realy want to try swiss after all I've heard about it.

Thanks,

Will
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Offline Clarence

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Swiss Powder?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2004, 03:19:48 PM »
Typical velocities for GOEX with a ~530 grain bullet in .45-70 are 1120-1140 fps.  With Swiss 1.5Fg, I get 1160-1170 fps.  Mike Venturino reports ~1260 fps with Swiss FFFg.  For general use, you'll find 1.5Fg good enough for anything out to 600 yds.  Mike worked up the FFFg load to shoot at 100 yds. with his .45-70 and did quite well at the long ranges.

Clarence
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Offline Hermit

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Swiss Powder?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2004, 12:28:33 PM »
I live in Maine and the regs here are also getting ridicoulous. I can't get a can of BP in any shops I used to and then I had sign for it at times and state what it would be used for.
I also like Goex and find Elephant "dirty". I understand it is uncleaned graphite from the screening process and if you cut 2" squares of cotton socks and roll them in powder it removes excess graphite. Well to me that removes volume and weight and may as well get goex :-D  I am tempted to try the schutzen and swiss since I haven't yet.
 Maine powder house is 2 hours from me and I have spoken with him, very friendly and accomodating. In the 25 pound lot you may not only mix grades but also brands. If I drive there I can get less than 25 pound lots.  Here is some real interesting reading on BP. http://www.schuetzen.net/bill_knight.htm  Hermit

Offline Will52100

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Swiss Powder?
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2004, 06:58:43 PM »
I was going to order through Powder Inc., but can't get there website up, anybody have there contac info?

Thanks,

Will
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Offline Gunny

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Swiss Powder?
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2004, 08:12:35 PM »
Guy's,
Let me preface this post with the disclaimer, that I DO NOT own stock in either Goex or Swiss Powder. I do not have a dog in this fight.

Now with that said in my experiance Swiss powder is so far ahead of Goex it aint even a fair race. There has been much written about the differences in these two powders. Well these differences are really pretty simple Goex powder has a "Musket Burn Rate" and Swiss has a "Sporting Rifle Burn Rate" these are scientific designations and what they really mean is Swiss powder is very close to the powders of old in burn rate. I am not saying that Goex won't work in a cartridge rifle it goes bang every damn time. But it fouls more and a lot more in some cases, and is not capable of the velocity's you can get with Swiss becuase Swiss is true Sporting Powder.

I am a Silhouette shooter and as such I shoot a lot. Practice for me is at least twice a week and I really prefere three times if possible. I shoot a minimum of 150 shots in each practice session. I then shoot a Silhouette match every weekend almost year round. That is at least 400 rounds a week or 1600 bullets down range per month. I use a hell of a lot of powder, primers and lead--way to much. When I first started shooting I was using Goex 2 fg in my Meacham Highwall. With all of the shooting and going thru that much powder I was ordering powder by the case every 3 months or so. With the Goex I had to start load work up all over every time I got a new case of powder. No two lots where ever the same and some times I would have to go thru 4 or 5 lbs just to get a desent load. When I found out about Swiss I ordered a case and loaded it the same as I loaded the Goex. That was a lot of compression like .350. The Swiss fouled so bad I was ready to use the rest of that case on the lawn. A friend advised me to use little or NO compression and see how that worked. I loaded up a hundred with NO compression and damn how this shot, almost no fouling at all. To clean one wet patch and a couple of dry patches and I was ready to go again. When I had to order my next case it was the same lot as the first and shot exactly the same. It was 5 cases later before I got a different lot, loaded it as the old lot and found no change at all, it shot just the same as the first lot. WOW!! I now have had some of all 4 of the different lots of Swiss powder, the powder did change on the latest lot. This new Swiss is not quite as dense as the old stuff and weighs a little different, but it shoots almost exactly the same no load change at all. I have found it to be a little faster than the old stuff but that is fine with me.

If you look at the people who compete on a regular basis you will see that Swiss is used by these competitors 10 to 1. For the last two years at the BPCR Nationals the total of Goex users was about 30% with 70% or so using Swiss. In the winners circle last year at the Nationals had 9 of the top 10 shooters using Swiss, Goex had only 1 finisher in the top 10. The year before last was the same 9 of the 10 where using Swiss. This ought to tell you something.

Now your original question was about granulation size to order for your 45-70. I have played a little with 3 fg Swiss in the 45 and really found no advantage to this grain size, you will get a little more speed from the 3fg but with that comes a price, that price is more fouling to deal with. Swiss 1 1/2 is damn good powder for the 45-70 it needs no compression or very little to shoot well, fouling is not bad at all and clean up is easy. I am one of the few Silhouette Shooters using 2fg, I have found it to shoot a little flatter than 1 1/2 and not have the fouling of 3fg, for me it works just great and I would encourage you to give 2fg a try. But if you have your heart set on 3fg go for it you will find Swiss powder to be another world away from Goex.

Gunny
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Offline Will52100

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Swiss Powder?
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2004, 10:53:44 PM »
thanks Gunny, I'll try a couple pounds of 2f Swiss for the 45-70, but will get the rest for 38 long colt and 45 colt and the cap and balls in 3f.

I'm no competitor, just like to make smoke and ocasionaly hit what I'm aiming at.  Goex is all I've ever used as it was localy avaible, so swiss should be a nice treat from everything I've heard about it.
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Offline Clarence

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Swiss Powder?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2004, 02:57:02 AM »
Wll,

I'd suggest you give Swiss 1.5Fg a try.  I think you'll find many more shooters using it than 2Fg.  I load 64 gr. in WW cases with a Gunn modified bullet, and that gives me around 0.040-0.050" compression, which can be done with the bullet.  No experience with the latest lot, but older lots give around 1165 fps from a 32" barrel, plenty adequate out to at least 600 yds.  Mike Venturino gets around 1250-60 fps with 3Fg, and found it worked very well at 100 yds.

Clarence
Clarence