Author Topic: magnum question (Read 970 times)

j.trevor123 · « **on:** February 17, 2004, 05:17:46 PM »

first i would like to say thanks to everyone who has answered my 20000 questions haha.

OKay to cut to the chase i am looking for a .300 mag(wsm maybe) so which set up would you recommend(in your opinion, make model, etc) and i have quite a bit to spend, not real high but not low range. Any opinions, thanks

PaulS · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2004, 08:03:57 PM »

j.trevor123,

The following is only my opinion - which is what you asked for:

If you want a magnum get the full blown, mega case 300 Winchester magnum. It will give you exactly what a magnum is supposed to. The short magnums are brand new, are less flexible and do not give all that they advertise - especially in reloads. It is my opinion that the larger the case the higher the posible velocities without damaging pressures. I don't have much faith in the canister powders that are availbe for the short magnums.

Ok, now the debate begins - opinions are like other body parts - we all have them, and they vary from person to person

PaulS

JBabcock · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2004, 02:35:41 AM »

I would also get the standard magnums. The Belted, 7mm Rem mag, the 300 Win Mag, or the 338 Win Mag. All of these provide excellent accuracy, plenty of velocity, and they can be found in any sporting goods shop. I've shot the 300 WSM, and as far as recoil goes, it was no more, or less than the 300 Win Mag. Accuracy for hunting rifles is more a result of the rifle, rather than the cartridge. Any gun that shoots 1" at 100 yards is more than accurate enough for hunting.

My last reason is strictly looks, I think the short mags are ugly. I guess I'm a traditionalist, but they don't do much for me. However, they do speak volumes for the lack of knowledge of the American shooting public, and the ability of the marketing and advertizing of Winchester.

CEJ1895 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 18, 2004, 02:57:25 AM »

j.trevor123 - I've got to agree with the advice you've already been given. That said I've had both the .300 Win Mag and the 7mm Rem Mag but now I've got the .300 RUM and it's my favorite long range rifle. You can get it in a number of rifles that are not too expensive. Please don't get me wrong, all three of these are good rounds and will still be around long after most of the short mags are history.

Good luck with what ever you decide to buy! CEJ...

Lawdog · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2004, 12:46:47 PM »

j.trevor123,

If you are going to go with one of the full length magnums then do it right. Go with the best, the Rolls Royce of full length magnums - Weatherby. Their written accuracy guarantee(the only one in the business) leaves nothing else to be said. They are the bench mark that other companies strive to be. Lawdog

Iowegan · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2004, 03:27:45 PM »

No offense Lawdog but the Weatherby would be one of the last guns I would pick. Weatherby's are nothing more than a Howa with a pretty finish. They're good guns but they just cost way too much for what you get. The Weatherby mag ammo cost over $2 a shot and are seldom stocked by sporting goods stores. Weatherby mag ammo will slightly out perform their belted mag counter parts (increased energy) but are no more accurate.

If money were not an issue, I'd go with a Sako in a 300 Win Mag. Now there's a quality piece. For considerably less money you can get a Tikka and still have a better rifle than a Weatherby. Just my opinion, not an arguement.

Sask_Hunter · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2004, 05:59:30 PM »

i would get a remington 700ss in 300 short. swap the stocks out and fling 168gr bullets. matchkings for paper and gophers and barnes TSX for big stuff. put a leupold 3-9 tactical on it and look out. it would be lite enough to hike with all day, and be rugeded for any weather. that set up is my number one contender for the summer.

also got no poroblems with the belted mags. 7mm is my favorite and then 270 wby and distant second.

sabotloader · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2004, 06:56:31 PM »

I certainly am no expert but I have had 300 Win Mags - A Herters Mauser, Remington 700 ADL, and my current Weatherby VGS and of the lot the Weatherby is my choice - action, quality, and warranty are right. Accuracy, dependibilty, and strength are the practicle reasons. I would also opt for the conventinal 300 Win Mag. I am old and have seen a lot of rifles come and go - I believe the short mags are another way for companies to sell another round of rifles because the regular Mag market maybe somewhat saturated. I also wonder if it might not be less expensive for companies to build the short mags based on a short action. It still comes down to your choice - If you don't choose what you want you will always be looking back. Get what you want and have fun and most of success...

bigjeepman · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2004, 09:10:44 PM »

I have a .300 wsm Model 70 Super Black Shadow with a Sightron II 3x12x42 mildot scope. With factory ammo, I could shoot moa groups with no problem. Since I have started reloading, I have shrunk my groups to a "best" of .365" using 165gr Nosler ballistic tips and RL-19.

The .300 win mag and the 7mm mag are also "time-tested and proven" excellent calibers as everyone knows. You cannot go wrong with them if you choose one of them. I chose to go with the .300 wsm because at the time I did not have a .30 cal rifle, I liked the ballistics and reviews I read of some people I feel are pretty reliable, and because I just love the way that round looks like. However, I am not comfortable at all at this point in time with the wssm calibers recently introduced due to barrel life and accuracy questions not satisfactorily proven.

azshooter · « **Reply #9 on:** February 19, 2004, 02:59:09 AM »

I disagree that the 300 WSM is less flexible than the 300 WM.
Perhaps when it first came out there was a lack of good loading data but now it meets and yes actually exceeds 300 WM performance for many loads. Check out the loading data available from Hodgdon. With that said, the two are still so close that I would say it is a tossup what you get.

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/300winshortmag.php
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/300winma.php
http://www.shortmags.org/shortmags/downloads/300wsm_nosler.pdf

and yes the 300 WSM can push the heavy 220gr bullets at a respectible 2600-2700 FPS

Lawdog · « **Reply #10 on:** February 19, 2004, 09:38:29 AM »

No offence taken 'Iowegan'. I do have a question. What is meant by the Howa comment? Howa only manufactures the Vanguard, which is not a real Weatherby in my opinion. I own only Mark V Deluxe’s which were made, in the case of the ones I own, in Germany. Now the Mark V’s are made in the good old USA. I do admit the Sako is a good rifle(I own two older ones) but I know nothing about the Sako made Tikka other than what is said by those that own them, which is pretty much good reports. The Weatherby Mark V is one of the very best factory made rifles you can purchase with the best warrantee on the market. Their customer service department is second to none. The Weatherby line of cartridges is the bench mark that other cartridges are compared to. Yes they cost more money but a Hummer cost more than a Ford Explorer or a Rolls Royce costs more than a Lincoln Continental. Quality costs. Reloading Weatherby ammo doesn’t cost any more than reloading other ammo and if you shoot a lot you are going to reload. Even factory ammo for the .300 Win. Mag., just for an example, would break most shooters if they were firing 250 rounds a year thru it. You may not like Weatherby or even want one but they are still the Crown Prince of rifles and cartridges. Lawdog

Bear Wallow · « **Reply #11 on:** February 19, 2004, 10:00:44 AM »

Go with the standard .300 win. ooor go wild and go .308 Norma. or 30-338. Kimber would be nice or go full custom with McMillan, H-S Precision or Ultra Light Arms. Maybe redo an old pre-64 action. It's fun just thinking about it, wish I had to make such a tough decision

Zachary · « **Reply #12 on:** February 19, 2004, 10:09:43 AM »

If you want a lightweight magnun rifle, then go with the Kimber 8400 in .300 WSM. If you won't shoot bullets heavier than 180 grains, then go with the WSM. If you want heavier bullets, then go with the Win. Mag.

If you want a standard weight rifle, then look at the Tikka, Sako, Remington, and Winchester.

Zachary

j.trevor123 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 19, 2004, 12:55:06 PM »

by the way what is kimber's website??

Iowegan · « **Reply #14 on:** February 19, 2004, 01:43:58 PM »

Lawdog, I was referring to the Vanguard, twice the cost of a Howa but the same basic gun (except for the safety and the finish).

I used to own a Mark V in a 270 WB Mag.. That was a very accurate rifle and packed a real punch. Good eye candy too, so pretty that I was afraid to hunt with it. After 350 rounds, the throat had eroded to a point where my groups went from under 1 MOA to about 6 MOA using WB factory ammo. I contacted Weatherby and was informed the Mark V was intended for occasional shooting and acknowledged the throat erosion problem. They did replace the barrel free of charge after which I promptly sold it.

Weatherby rifles have always been able to squeeze a couple hundred fps more velocity than their belted magnum counterparts. That does not come without a price, in this case 30% higher chamber pressure and short barrel life. Ive owned a 300 Win Mag in a Winchester Mod 70 for years and it will still shoot sub-MOA groups after a couple thousand rounds. The jury is still out on the short mags but they do the same thing with chamber pressure as the Weatherby. 65,000 psi vs 50,000 psi in a belted mag. I cant help but thinking their barrels wont last too long.

Now Im retired and spend a lot more time fondling my guns than shooting them. Maybe thats what Weatherbys market is aimed at. Got to admit, the Mark V was fun to fondle.

Lawdog · « **Reply #15 on:** February 20, 2004, 11:56:41 AM »

Iowegan,

That is what I though but the Vanguard is selling for around $400.00. I believe that is the same price range as the Howa. Also Weatherby covers the Vanguard with the same written 1.5 inch warrantee as their Mark V's. Until they put a walnut stock on the Vanguard you will never see one in my safe. Lawdog