Some 410 questions

[jlwilliams]

  My mother wants something for coyotes.  She is afraid that her corgie will get eaten and wants something to shoot a predator if need be.  She's in her mid 60s and has had shoulder trouble.  I have an 1100 in 20g, which I will take her out to shoot once we see some fair weather.  I'm hoping that the autoloading 20 will be mild enough, but if it's more than she's comfortable with I'm thinking 410 may be the way for her to go.  I'm not much of a 410 guy, so I have some questions.
 
  First, what would be adequate shot for coyote?  Would a turkey shot be enough?  That's what I'd lean toward in the 20, but is that still a good choice in the smaller bore?  How about buckshot? 
 
  Buck shot from a 410 brings up a whole set of questions.  I'm a little skeptical of 3 or 4 pellets.  How tightly do they travel?  Is 410 buck even worth considering?  Or am I just dismissing something without reason?   I would imagine that 36 cal buckshot, plus a shot cup is nice and snug in a 410 bore, so it's probably a non option in anything with a fixed choke.  Is that correct?
 
  Anything else I want to know?

[mechanic]

If you're looking for an immediate knock 'em down and stop 'em coyote gun, the 410 might not be it.  I use one exclusively now due to some medical issues, and am getting to know it a bit.  The buckshot, buck and ball and disc type loads you find now don't do will in a shotgun...they were designed for the Judge handgun....but normal loads will hold a good pattern.
 
If it were me, I would go with turkey loads in #4 shot if I could find them, and keep my shots about 25 yards or less.  I would also suggest a double or repeater of some sort for follow up.  A couple barrels full couldn't hurt.
 
Will it kill a coyote?  I don't know yet, but would not hesitate to give it a go.
 
I've found it will knock a squirrel out of a tree the same distances my old 12 used to....just a smaller shot column.
 
Ben

[dukkillr]

20 guage or a .223 or even a pistol.  The 410 is a novelty for tinkerers, small kids, and high end skeet shooters.
 
I've killed more coyotes with turkey loads than any other gun/load combination. 

[hillbill]

dont even start with the 410. if she can shoot 20 ga go for that.either one is
marginal at best.but the best thing is if yu sting a yote he wont be back.they seem to learn stuff.

[Ranger99]

if she can't use anything but a .410
let her use it.
it's a fantastic shotgun round in spite
of all the naysayers.
i wouldn't be without one and have never
had a problem with lethality except for
when i tried to use my rifled contender
barrel and found it didn't pattern well.
killed many a squirrel and rabbit and
i've used it before dove hunting and let
my buddy's youngest boy use it dove hunting.
no problems whatsoever.
well. . . .cost of shells

[45-70.gov]

OOO  is impressive out of my o/u  410


#4 shot will sure drop a large coon up close

[PowPow]

What about a 22 mag with inexpensive 2.5x or 4x scope?

[Stuart C.]

We're talking about a nice older lady walking her corgi in coyote country.  She and her four legged best friend just want to be able to enjoy their walk and get home safely.
 
A judge with #9s. 
 

[upnut]

The .410 is a short range affair, always has been. So as long as your mom undertands that and is willing to stick to shots 20 yards or less, buckshot would be an effective deterrent. Ditto for slugs. A youth size single shot .410 with sling swivels and an ammo-cuff on the stock with slugs and buckshot would work well, in my opinion. I've had good results with Federal Premium Handgun 2 1/2" buckshot, here's a link to some very helpful info:http://410handguns.com/410_federal_ammunition.html   
 
Good Luck!
Scott B.
 
p.s. I would probably fall in the ".410 tinkerer" category:
 
 

 
 

 
A pattern test from a year ago:
patterning buckshot:
Saturday, February 18 2012, sunny 30 degrees, gusty cross wind
Marlin model 200 .410 shotgun, 22" cylinder bore with 1x20 scope
Standing, one round at ten yards, one round at fifteen yards
Federal 2 1/2" personal defense 000Buck, 4 pellets
24"x24" cardboard with 3" orange dot for focus, wasn't expecting such good results...
Determining where buckshot hit in relation to crosshairs, for close in woodchuck elimination
All eight pellets in a very tight pattern, very happy!

 
Tried a couple other 3" buckshot loads, wildly innaccurate even for buckshot.
This round has patterned very well in my Mossberg 500 and an old bolt action .410, I like it!
 
Six shots @25 yards from my backyard shooting bench, scoped .410 Marlin 200:
 

 
Last woodchuck of 2012, Remington Slugger at 45 yards all i could see was his head/shoulders:
 

[jlwilliams]

  Thanks for all the replies.  She wants the shotgun to keep in the house for a possible door to tree-line shot ( 25 yards or less).  She won't carry a pistol on walks.  I've tried.
 
  Sounds like I'm on the right track.  Plan A is the 20g.  If she doesn't like that, I'll find something 410 for her to try.

[upnut]

  Thanks for all the replies.  She wants the shotgun to keep in the house for a possible door to tree-line shot ( 25 yards or less).  She won't carry a pistol on walks.  I've tried.
 
  Sounds like I'm on the right track.  Plan A is the 20g.  If she doesn't like that, I'll find something 410 for her to try.

Many single shot .410 shotguns served exactly that purpose for years. I have a well used, pawn shop, Sears Ranger 37, bolt-action single shot .410 that I dearly wish could tell stories, it has surely seen the action you have just described. Good luck....Scott B.

[Couger]

 
 
Walking a dog in coyote country?
 
 
Is the lady's dog in a "harness" so it cannot bolt and run if frightened?
 
And if a coyote was sighted
and even stalking her dog, can she pick it up and carry it home?
 
 
I'd rather grab up my dog around a preditor than worry shooting a gun I was unsure of!
 
However, if the lady insists on having a gun, maybe a Judge loaded with #4 birdshot is her best bet?  For hitting a coyote at close range, even if she doesn't kill it?
 
In a longgun however, I too would not recommend a .410!  Stick with a 20 gauge, even in a singleshot!

[spruce]

A 20ga is, of course, a fine choice if she is comfortable handling it.  A .410 is also a good choice.
 
The key here is that she is not HUNTING coyotes, her objective is to stop them from advancing on her dog, or scaring them away.  I would think any shotgun, including the .410, loaded with most any size bird shot would be adequate to make a coyote quickly change it's mind about hanging around, let alone furthur advancing!  Most likely just firing the gun up in the air or in the ground will be enough to chase a coyote away.
 
I can't see where a Judge would be a good choice for a 60-something lady not very familiar with firearms.  It's MUCH easier for a novice to hit with a long gun than with a handgun.  And how is it that a .410 shotgun is not a good choice, but a .410 handgun is?? 

[Doublebass73]

I can't imagine a coyote hanging around after being hit with birdshot from a 410 unless of course it was high on meth.

[jlwilliams]

  A little background.  The incident that made her consider a firearm.  They live in a house set back a good ways from the road with a couple hundred acres behind their property. Lots of animals come through.  One morning she came down stairs and saw a coyote eating from her compost.  It wasn't menacing anything, but it got her thinking.  Some times they let the dogs out.  What would she do if she let the dogs out, and something tried to eat them?  After thinking on this a little, she told me that she'd like a shotgun for that sort of situation.  She has shot firearms a few times here and there, but isn't really "in to" guns.  Her reasoning for asking me about a shotgun is that she realizes that a handgun is harder to shoot than a long gun.  She is also more comfortable with a load of shot verses a rifle because even though there are lots of woods, the woods don't go forever and there may be people back there.  I might go with a small rifle, but she has reasoned it out that a shotgun is what she is comfortable with.  I think her reasoning is sound.  So, I offer up an 1100 20 gage.  My reason for asking here is that I want to be ready with a fall back position should the 20g be more than her burcitis (sp?) will tolerate.  Plan A: the 20 in hand.  I'm here getting plan B well researched.
  I have in the past tried to get her to carry a handgun.  Particularly in the woods.  There are dogs, wild animals, and people out there.  It's a non starter.  She won't carry a pistol.  A great many of the places she takes her dogs to are state owned management areas and state forests.  While the state does issue permits to carry handguns, they prohibit carrying of handguns in their woods for reasons I don't understand at all.  Anyway, even if she were willing to carry a Judge, she wouldn't have one all the time.
 
  Anyway, the gun choice in question is for a shotgun that will be in the house.   If fired, it would be at a short distance.  Recoil is a big issue.  She's very fit for her age, but has shoulder trouble.  Must be a shotgun.  That brings me full circle, falling back to a 410 if the 20 is declined.
 
  After the snow melts I'll take her shooting and let you all know how it goes.

[jlwilliams]

I can't imagine a coyote hanging around after being hit with birdshot from a 410 unless of course it was high on meth.

  The mental image of a coyote high on meth is hilarious.   That put a smile on my face.  Thank you.

[jlwilliams]

 

And if a coyote was sighted
and even stalking her dog, can she pick it up and carry it home?
 
 

  A couple years ago the little trouble making corgie in question treed a fisher cat.  It was an odd time and place to see the fisher at all.  Broad daylight, my mother was just taking the dogs up and down the driveway.  She recognized that a fisher out in daylight was not normal, and that if it had a change of heart and came back down the tree it had gone up, that this would end in tears.  So she did exactly as you posted.  She picked the squirming dog up and walked away.  Much like confrontations with people, walking away before anybody is leaking is often the winning move.

[mechanic]

Something many of us believe until we try it out, is that the bigger the shotgun the more powerful...not necessarily so.  The 410 has just as much "power" as it's bigger sisters...it just has less shot, so a smaller shot column.  It requires more careful aim.
 
The velocity of the shot is the same.  The end result if that shot hits it's mark is the same.
 
Ben

[351 power]

speaking of fishers...few years ago i found 3 of my geese dead behind the barn. went hunting later that day with my son and an old 410. that old single made a quick kill on that fisher up a tree

[pastorp]

All this talk about the 410 shotgun makes me want to get mine out & shoot it a little.  I will say that any load in a 410, even a 3" slug is very easy on the shoulder. I have a lot of shoulder issues but they are not life threatening like my heart problems, so I just live with the shoulders. I do shoot liter recoiling gun than I used to.

Regards,

[45-70.gov]

get a simple light H&R  in 410.....no cplicated heavy sini  or pump


get either  #4  0r buck....probly #4 will serve best and safest


she  might ''out grow '' a 20ga.....the littlest 410 will work as long as she is walking


next choice shooting from the house  would be a 22 with low power scope  [not a variable]

[SHOOTALL]

Here in Va. deer get killed each year with a 410 . I agree it is not the best choice but even Mossberg sells a home defense shotgun in 410. It works for folks who can't stand the kick of larger guns.
 The killing power of a shotgun comes from multiple hits at the same time. With the 410 you are limited to amount of shot aval. so the larger the shot the less there are per shot to hit the target. Also the less number of shot the shorter the range of a killing pattern. If shots would be inside 25 yards then #4's or such might work but if longer shots were the most likely then a slug or one of the new self defense loads with 3-5 buck shot. I have killed deer with one 000 buck several times. The buck leaving a 410 at 1200 fps will do as well as 000 buck leaving a 12 ga at 1200 fps. if close enough to get at least one buck shot in a vital area.

[SHOOTALL]

then also a good 22 mag. or 17 hrm would work well also if not a danger to the area.

[zero]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but would a circuit judge not work? You know, the long barrel and shoulder stock would help with absorbing recoil, the 45 colts could be more accurate out to 25 yards or so, and it's essentially a double action 410 repeater whereas a single shot 410 wouldn't be

[Stuart C.]

...then one of those Win or Marlin .410 lever guns would work.
High 'cool' factor, too.
 
Cool dog, the corgi, not run-of-the-mill.    She need's a complimentary arm.
 
I know if I see some nice old lady with a corgi and a levergun, I'm goin' the other direction.

[Rustyinfla]

    Don't forget one thing. THE LADY SAID A SHOTGUN! 

    Never try to change a woman's mind on something like that, just go with it.

  As Ben said a .410 will do her just fine. She's not a hunter, just a lady wanting to protect her dog.
   

[dakotashooter2]

Another choice is a single shot 28 ga. I think H&R might make one.   It's in between the 410 and the 20 ga.   The limiting factor is the largest shot size available is #4 and I believe that is in heavi shot....and you probably won't find much 28 ga available locally much less in the larger shot.........
 
 

[mcwoodduck]

Walking around southern CA I had a problem with Coyotes attacking the neighbors smaller dogs that would invite themselves on the walk with my dog.  Carrying a small 22 Pistol was enough. 
You may want to get you mom something like a Ruger 10/22 with a red dot.  Just change the coin battery every so often and leave it on.  The 22 will be more than enough to protect the dog and she may not have to worry about hitting her dog if it goes after the yote with the 20 ga as the recoil could have her pushing down on the muzzle to absorb the recoil as most new shooters do.
With the 22 All she will have to do is point the gun and take off the safety.

[FourBee]

First of all the .410 shot pattern is small,  and the recoil of a single shot .410 shotgun is a pretty hard kicker for such a small looking gun.  Secondly, not all .410's shoot straight.
On the other hand, a 20GA is pleasing to shoot, and its shot pattern gives good coverage. Shop around, and find one that she'll be comfortable with.