Motor oil- what's good, what's not

[Larry L]

Thought ya'll might like to see what actually is out on the market that is good oil versus the crapola that claims to be good oil but fails testing. Most all brands are listed somewhere in this link. You probably have to scroll thru the test results to find a particular one. ATF is also shown here.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/


Just a FWIW, if you are a Mobil 1 fan, it has been failing IVA testing which is a cam wear test for a couple of years now. This is in regards to the 5w-30 ONLY. If you're a Mobil fan I'd suggest using their EP version. If you have an OHC engine, it's not an issue- an old pushrod engine like a 350, you have a problem. GM has issued a TSB that any engine that comes in with an oil related failure or possible failure, the oil is to be tested for a solvent flush or markers indicating a solvent flush has been used. Hyundai has also issued a TSB in this regards. If you use a solvent flush in your engine, you just voided the warranty. Damage WILL occur and numerous owners have suffered complete failures. Don't let some idiot at Jiffy Juice talk you into a flush. If you are considering using a synthetic oil, most are no longer real synthetics  Even Gp II base oils are being used for a synthetic base now. What was a blend or a dino oil is now labelled synthetic- be aware. A good formulated synthetic on the market is G Oil. If you watch their website they have a 20 dollar coupon towards a 5qt jug which makes it dirt cheap. It's the ONLY 100% ester based Gp V oil on the market. It great for normal driving but if you make short trips, avoid it as esters do not handle condensation very well.

[Ranger99]

i looked at the link and went through
all the list but i was not able to find
the regular mobil 1 5w30 list anywhere.
did i go to the wrong place?

[Larry L]

I don't see it on the list anymore either. If you would like to read about the M1 not meeting specs, start here and at December 2008 archives and go forward thru the info.
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs003/1100412198756/archive/1102684407101.html


Here's the info in regards to how the test is run and the expected results:
http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/gastests/ivatest/


Otherwise, if you have an overhead cam engine, it's not a problem. An older pushrod engine will eventually cause the cam to go flat. Wear is more than double that of max allowables (90 max limit, M1 at 210+).

[Lloyd Smale]

lary do you have any other links to this. Ive used mobil 1 for years and chev still puts it in there cars new. the vette i had came with it and so did our new buick verono

[Larry L]

No Lloyd, GM has never put Mobil One in any car. This "myth" got started when Mobil/Exxon decided it would be great advertising to have their name on the oil fill caps. They furnish the caps to GM for free. It's advertising, pure and simple. GM has for the last 4 years been putting Shell oils in all cars. I don't remember before that but somewhere in the mix you'll find they used Ashland oils for several years. Considering when GM went to their own oil standards, which is another bag of BS, Shell was the only formulator that would blend it and pay the outrageous price for GM certification. BY comparison, Ford gets 50 bucks for their certification which pays for the paperwork. GM is 1000 times that and the formulator has to pay for the independent testing which can run into the 7 figure mark. Hardly worth the cost especially since the Dexos specs are so close to Fords. The differences will never be a known as they are so close. The same holds true with gas caps on the F150's that say use BP gasoline. It's advertising. But the crapola about the Vette MUST have M1 is pure BS. To give you an idea. If you buy your oil by the quart every time you go to change it, you've probably never put the same formulation in your engine. M1 was at one time was a mostly PAO base oil with a mineral binder. After Katrina, it went to a GpIII dino base oil with a splash of their Viscom which is an ultra high VI PAO. M/E had lost their PAO production and it wasn't going to be back online for quite a while since the refinery took a major hit. But it's hardly the same oil. Since then, there are no full PAO oils on the market. The ethylene gas used to make it has become hard to get and it's too expensive to use as a motor oil. But on the plus side, the dino base oils have made tremendous progress where the synthetic base oils have pretty much stayed static. The blends in most engines beat the synthetics in wear metals. Heat is no longer an issue as the Ford spec calls for double length testing at 302F and only allows half of API standards for deposits. The oil is not allowed to oxidize or shear out of its respective SAE viscosity range. If you're happy with the M1 in 5w-30 and the engine is an overhead cam engine, keep using it. If the engine is a pushrod engine, change to their EP version.

[cpileri]

Have you searched around the BITOG (Bob Is The Oil Guy) forum?  lots, probably way too much, info there: but someone there can answer almost any tribology question.
C-

[Lloyd Smale]

Larry gm does put mobil one in cars. My vette not only had a oil cap that claimed it but a sticker radiator frame that said to use mobil one and when i had an oil consumption problem with my truck when i was using a cheaper house brand synthetic oil the service manager at the chev dealer said that the only synthetic chevy recomended was mobil one. I was also told at the first service for my buick verano at the same dealership by the service tech that my verono came with mobil one syn and that was the oil they put in it at the first change. I was right there when they dumped it in the car. If its wasnt mobil one it was oil out of a barrel that had mobil one synthetic wrote right on it. I cant stand here and say every dealership is the same as this is the only one ive delt with but unless there selling shell oil in mobil one barrels ill have to argue with you. by the way on a side note I was using a walmart brand of synthetic called high tech. My nephew worked there and had the msd sheet on it and said it was made by mobil too. My truck was going through a quart of it ever 1000 miles with only 50k on the odometer. I though my engine was going south. When i started complaining about oil consumption the first thing the dealership asked was what oil i was using. I told them synthetic. they said that was great but what brand? they said theres a big differnce in quality of syntheitic oils. Probably more of a differnce between them then conventional oils. they told me to try a switch to mobil one (branded). I did and the oil consumption stopped imediatlely and it hasnt used a drop since. I was later told that alothough high tech is made by mobil one it is a bargin oil that is real low on the additives that are important for your vehicle.

[ihookem]

Larry, it seems the name brand is ok. All the bad ones I saw were off brand that I never heard of. It wouldn't hurt us any if you had a list of suggestions. I talked to you about Amsoil a year ago and ya told me I was wasting my money so now I just go to Shell Rotella  for my diesel. I run an off brand from Fleet Farm supposedly made from Citgo but wonder if their off brand is less than their Citgo brand . I will stick with Citgo brand that they sell there. Seems ok in the test. Anyway thanks for the heads up on off brand oil.

[JonnyReb]

 My father in law turned me onto Rotella years ago, his trucks were all sitting at 250-350,000 miles and while everything else was worn out, the motors still had good compression and ran great. Now I've taken 3 full size chevys and 1 toyota tacoma between 200-320,000 miles. All ran great when I sold them.  J

 Somehow forgot to mention that in addition to the rotella, I use a quart of Lucas oil additive on every change also. J

[Oldshooter]

Interesting reading, thanks for the post.

[hillbill]

i dont use high priced oil. i use super tech from wal mart. but i dont push my rigs hard. im a easy driver.45 to 65 mph. dont load them heavy a lot.and if i do i go slow and and dont push them.keep my air cleaner clean, good fuel. and change oil every 3000 to 5000 miles.
 

[ihookem]

I bought an 05 Sunfire 2.2 L. with 26k on it 6 yrs ago. Now it has 154k mi. I changed the oil every 25k when running Amsoil. I went to Supertech and ran it 15k. After that I ran cheap oil and changed 8-10k mi. The timing belt jumped so I take it to my Mechanic so I asked him if it was all gunked up with sludge. He said no, no more than average. SO this tells me the oil did it's job. My avr. oil change interval is likely 10-12k. mi. It was run highway most it's life. This tells me we change oil way too often. The timing chain did not jump because of lack of oil changes according to the mechanic. He says it just happens. Most likely from the -10 degree weather and it was outside.

[hillbill]

I bought an 05 Sunfire 2.2 L. with 26k on it 6 yrs ago. Now it has 154k mi. I changed the oil every 25k when running Amsoil. I went to Supertech and ran it 15k. After that I ran cheap oil and changed 8-10k mi. The timing belt jumped so I take it to my Mechanic so I asked him if it was all gunked up with sludge. He said no, no more than average. SO this tells me the oil did it's job. My avr. oil change interval is likely 10-12k. mi. It was run highway most it's life. This tells me we change oil way too often. The timing chain did not jump because of lack of oil changes according to the mechanic. He says it just happens. Most likely from the -10 degree weather and it was outside.

is your motor a belt or a chain timeing engine? you said both? if its a belt engine then the oil really has nothing to do with it anyway.and your correct that the minus 10 degree weather helped it along if it was worn.timeing belts need to be changed at least every 100k.especially on a interference motor. that is where the valves can hit the pistons if it gets out of time.not all motors are interference motors.if your is and your timeing belt breaks yu got a mess of bent valves.
 
i agree we all prob change oil to much.i do a lot of short trips and keep my cars forever.so i change around 3500 mi.it bothers me to have black oil in my car.lol. if i was like most people and only kept a car maybe 3 to 4 years, id prob only change oil every 10 k or so.if i only kept a car 1 to 2 yrs i would not change oil at all.

[charles p]

My Chevy Z71 has only had synthetic oil (except when it left the factory).  It has a little over 90K now.  I use NAPA synthetic or Mobil 1.  Lately just NAPA.  I change betwee 8-10K miles and the oil has never changed color.  Comes out almost the same amber color as when it goes in.  Wife has a Lexus SUV with 160K.  Her oil stays clean also.
 
I wonder if the detergents in synthetic oils are as effective as those in conventional oil.  Is the synthetic oil not disolving and carrying dirt and deposits, or is it preventing them?

[Cheesehead]

Any opinions on the Walmart Supertech 5w-30 fully synthetic motor oil?

[charles p]

When I commercial crabbed for five years, I ran Walmart 2-stoke oil in a Yamaha outboard every day for months and never had a problem.  My partner did the same.  We now have our strokes and use Yahama oil.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive got a little story about it. I started using it in everything a few years back when my nephew who worked for walmart said there msda statement showed it came from mobil. I figured it was just mobil one in a generic jug. Ive got a silverado with only 50k on it. My wife went on a trip down state and called about 200 miles from home and said the oil light came on. I had never noticed oil consumption in it before but to be honest i probably never checked it as it was new and i changed oil every 4k anyway. Well i told her to check it and it was a bit over a quart low. She added a quart and went on her way. After she came back and about a 1000miles down the road it came on again. I then changed oil. I figured the first time maybe i somehow didnt get it full when i changed it so i wanted to make sure.
 
About a 1000 miles later i checked it and it was a quart low again. I called my chev dealer and told them how conserned i was. they asked me what kind of oil i used and i stretched it a bit and said mobil one. they told me that was fine as thats what came in it new. they had me change it again at there expense and document when i had to add oil. 900 miles later i had to add a quart. I told them this and they said to bring it in for testing. I was conserned that they would test the oil and find out it wasnt mobil one so i changed it again using mobil one. I took it up there and they ran some tests and said everything looked fine and to take it home and run it a couple more thousand miles and they  would in the meantime find out what could be done
 
Well i took it home and ran it 1000 then 2000 and then 3000 and up to 4000 and it didnt use a drop of oil. All i can figure is that it was that high tech oil that was causing it and it has droped a bit in 3 oil changes now using mobil one.
 
I was told by someone that yes high tech is made by mobil but has a totaly differnt (read cheaper) additive package in it. I wont put it even in my lawn mower anymore.
 
 
 author=Cheesehead link=topic=274687.msg1099669506#msg1099669506 date=1361752511]
Any opinions on the Walmart Supertech 5w-30 fully synthetic motor oil?

[Oldshooter]

What a story Lloyd. Not scientific but enough anecdotal evidence for me to avoid it.

[Larry L]

Ihookem, Fleet Farm does not hold an API license so I don't know who is the actual maker. If you have an exact name I can look it up if you like.


Johnnyreb, I'd strongly suggest skipping the Lucas. It's nothing but polymers, the same crap that caused all of the sludging back in the 1990's. Any kind of moisture builds in your engine and you have sludge using it. Winter cold starts will usually be enough.


CharlesP, I'd be real concerned with any oil that comes out like it went in. It's obviously not doing its job at cleaning. One of the major characteristics of a good oil is being able to clean deposits and keep them in suspension. That doesn't appear to be happening with your oil. Just for giggles, next time you go to change oil, throw in a qt of Marvel Mystery Oil and run it about 500 miles. It's a mostly solvent based cleaner but its not aggressive enough to cause damage by stripping lubrication. If it turns black and smells bad afterwards, you have a problem. NAPA oils are made by Ashland, the same folks that make Valvoline. NAPA oils are the exact same formulation and are good oils. I don't suppose you drive like a grandfather?
No 2 oils have the same formulation so the detergent packages are different. There are no special additives that only work in a synthetic fluid and any formulation that has an advantage in a synthetic base with yield the same results in a "dino" based oil. Not all synthetic based oils are using more or better additives as a requirement.


Walmart oils are made by 2 primary makers, Warren and Safety Kleen. The Super Tech synthetic is a GP III recycled product by Safety Kleen. Warren makes the "dino" oils in most of Walmarts stores. Occasionally M/E will blend some of the lesser products to Walmarts specs.


Llyod, you must have the dumbest dealer in the US. GM won't even consider an oil consumption test unless it exceeds a qt every 750 miles. Ford and GM both have the same oil consumption levels at 750 miles. Per both auto makers, 1000 miles per qt is normal usage.


FWIW, formulations change several times a year for most makers. So if you buy oil today for your vehicle, change it, the next time will most likely be a different formulation. Sometimes it's a good thing and sometimes it's not. Did you know that API has started testing oils they find in stores? Their finding that about 15% are not meeting specs at all and that includes the name brands. Did you know that API does not set the standards for the oils we use. That's done by ILSAC. Did you know that a lot of the oils you find at a convenience store are SA rated and not for use in any automotive engine made today? Didn't know this could be this much fun, did ya?

[Cheesehead]

Any opinions on the Walmart Supertech 5w-30 fully synthetic motor oil?

I have been running this oil for 80,000 of the 90,000 mile on my 2000 F-150 with the 5.4L engine. No problems and very easy cold weather starts. Oil changes happen at 3000-4000 miles. Many short trips with this truck, 1-3 miles almost daily. The oil comes out very black.

Cheese

[SHOOTALL]

We used Penzoil for several years in our trucks vans , pick ups and stake body trucks. These are construction trucks and this started 1990. After several years we had trouble getting the drivers to change oil on time so as a safety I started using Amsoil . It was good for 12000 miles but we chose to change at 7000 miles. We had no failures and trucks went over 180000 miles some as many as 320000. Then times got tight and we went back to regular oils and had some failures . So back to synthetic but this time NAPA syn oil. This is over the last 22 years and here is some things I have learned . It is best to put at least 15000 miles on a truch before switching to synthetic. It is best to not switch to syn. if there are alot of miles on a vehicle and it has shown oil use as with syn it will get worst. The exception as mentioned earlier is if you add a ot or two of Lucas syn oil adsditive (with each oil change ) you will be ok. Lucas is unreal , I never considered any additive worth using. BUT I took a very old pick up on a trip that was about 200 miles round trip. The truck had 160000+ miles on it . It was full of oil when I started the trip , I checked it. About 60 miles into the trip the engine started knocking ( it was using Amsoil) so I stop and check no oil on stick. I ease off the interstate to a gas station buy 5 qt's of oil and put all 5 in , then buy 5 more. Addeed 2 more at the jobsite and 3 more on the way home. I was in a NAPA getting parts for another truck and saw Lucas oil additive. I picked up 4 bottles . I got to the shop drained what was left in the truck added 3 qt's Amsoil and 2 Lucas . I sold the truck with over 220000 miles on it and it never used oils again . So today we add a qt of Lucas at all oil changes . We are running trucks with well over 200000 miles and a few with over 300000 miles. We have gone thru. over 80 trucks maybe 100 so I feel our experince is valid and real life not some figures on a graph. Someone mentioned Shell oil I worked for a company that used Shell products (they sold Shell heating oil) and they had a good experince with it but that was before synthetic oil was a big deal. I also worked for a company that serviced Texaco tankers and they used their trucks as test vehicles , I was there a short time and was the oil changer grease monkey so I had to take samples . We had 6 or 7 wreckers and used Havoline oil which also worked well. Run the weight called for !
 

[Oldshooter]

Hey Larry, what about the "high mileage" stuff. Is that a gimmick or what?
 
Interesting post Shootall.

[charles p]

Larry L:
 
You made me laugh.  I am a grandfather and drive like one.  My truck has never been over 70 mph, and that is only when I leave the island I live on - maybe ten times per year.  I could check the hour meter and the odometer and compute my average mph.  I'm guessing it would be under 40 mph since there are very few areas her with speed limits greater than 45 mph.
 
I drive my truck like its the last one I will ever have.  Of course, that depends on salt air corrosion here on the NC coast.  Truck is a 2005 with 90K miles.  Doubt it will withstand 10 more years.  Hope I do.

[Larry L]

what about the "high mileage" stuff. Is that a gimmick or what?

When you buy a motor oil, you buy according to the viscosity rating, like a 5w-30. That's the SAE rating for the oil, but not the actual viscosity. In the industry we have the Kinematic scale or the Saybolt scale. The industry uses both but the Kinematic is the more common. On the Kinematic scale an SAE 30 weight oil would have a range of 9.3 to 12.49cST at 100C temperature. So at full operating temp a 5w-30 oil will have an actual viscosity range of 9.3 to 12.49cST(centistokes). Your Energy Conserving oils are on the thinner end of the scale (9.3) and the high mileage oils will be on the thicker end of the scale(12.49). Neither has to be exactly at the end of the scale but in the area. High mileage oils generally have seal swell agents in the formulation to help weak seals maintain integrity.


FWIW:
Kinematic Viscosity (ASTM D445/ISO3105): 1 centi-Stoke (cSt) = 1 mm²/s.
Absolute Viscosity is a measure of a fluid's internal resistance to flow and may be thought of as a measure of fluid friction and of the oil's film strength to support a load.
Seal swell agents are usually the esters or nitriles but can also be organic phosphates and aromatic hydrocarbons. Esters are becoming more common as they also work as a binder for the base oils to support the additive packages. Kinda killing two birds with one stone.

[Oldshooter]

Thanks for the reply, You Know your motor oil, Pard.

[Lloyd Smale]

Llyod, you must have the dumbest dealer in the US. GM won't even consider an oil consumption test unless it exceeds a qt every 750 miles. Ford and GM both have the same oil consumption levels at 750 miles. Per both auto makers, 1000 miles per qt is normal usage.

I was told the same thing but was quoted 500 miles but i was also told by friends in that dealership that theres ways around that and that something could be done on a vehicle with under 75000 miles. they told me they had gotten results from gm for a couple other locals.

[SHOOTALL]

When I worked for another company the owner got a new Ford truck drove it several hundred miles and it was out of oil. The dealer would not tow it in . So the owner did . They checked it and pronounced it fixed . Another couple hundred miles and empty. So he had it towed in again. The Ford dealer claimed they did a test and found no leak said the rings had not broken in. After several weeks ( this was before the lemon law and a commerical sale ) boss got a lawyer and after alot of letters Ford decided to send a rep to watch the test. The block was porious so they decided to replace the engine . This was all in 3000-4000 miles.

[Oldshooter]

They were right,, after 3000-4000 miles it wasn't broke in! But it was a "Lemon"

[SHOOTALL]

a leaky lemon

[ihookem]

Larry, it is sold at Fleet Farm and called Resolute 5w30 synthetic blend It sais API rating SN. It would b enice to know if its good, bad or ugly oil.