Hey Lakota,What's the deal with your avatar ?

[Jim, West PA]

Regardless of what you may think you are doing.The fact is, you are disrespecting the flag of the United States of America.
 There is a time and a place for that and is not warranted.
 I personaly take great offense to it. I assure you that i feel exaclty as you do about the traitor 'running' our country, but this is not the way to show our disdaine.
Would you please take the time to read the American flag code of ethics and fully understand your actions ?

[NYRebel13]

That is not disrespecting.  It is a sign of distress to fly the flag upside down.  In the current state of affairs with the United States, many people believe we are in distress as do I.  I have seen similar avatar throughout the forums I have been on and currently have a similar pic on my facebook profile.  I even talked to one of my coworkers who has a son in the National Guard and she didn't think anything bad about it and agreed with me and confirmed the meaning.

[powderman]

That is not disrespecting.  It is a sign of distress to fly the flag upside down.  In the current state of affairs with the United States, many people believe we are in distress as do I.  I have seen similar avatar throughout the forums I have been on and currently have a similar pic on my facebook profile.  I even talked to one of my coworkers who has a son in the National Guard and she didn't think anything bad about it and agreed with me and confirmed the meaning.

 
Good post Sir, and YES, America is in deep distress. Obama and his supporters are bent on destroying America. POWDERMAN. 

[Jim, West PA]

NYRebel, just because someone knows soneone that is in the NG doesn't make it right. Heck, pull any handfull of Soldiers out of rank and question them on flag ediquete and you will find that rarely does their knowledge go beyond raising and lowering Her twice a day on base. And being in the Military does not give anyone license to do what they want with our flag.Look at how many times you see the ARMY carry a huge flag out onto a field horizontily at an even like a Nascar race. That is not following the flag code.She is never to be displayed horizontily.I've even seen the ARMY do this with a flag that was cut into the shape of our country.In the very least, the Comander of that company should have been reprimanded for defacing our flag.
 
If you guys would take the time to read the protocol on the matter of flying our flag in times of true distress, You will find that what you seem to agree on is indeed wrong.
 Our flag isn't about what  makes you 'feel good' or 'patriotic'. Or what you think you have 'earned' to do with Her because you served. She has a code of ethics, and in some cases, law, that She deserves to have respected and followed by everyone of us.
 Part of patriotism, is to honor Her.
 I urge you to take the time and read Her code of ethics and learn for yourselves what is and isn't protocol.

[NYRebel13]

#1, "knows somone in the NG"?  her son is in the National Guard and has served overseas more than once.  Also have family in the military who have been overseas numerous times.  And if we are going after displays of the flag, what about how the military displays it on their right shoulder with the blue and stars on the right like it is flying backwards?  That isn't how I was showed to display it in my Boy Scout days.


#2, who said anything about being in the military and doing what they want with the flag?


And here is a link for you.


http://www.freewebs.com/jeffhead/liberty/flagdistress.htm

[Jim, West PA]

#1, "knows somone in the NG"?  her son is in the National Guard and has served overseas more than once.  Also have family in the military who have been overseas numerous times.  And if we are going after displays of the flag, what about how the military displays it on their right shoulder with the blue and stars on the right like it is flying backwards?  That isn't how I was showed to display it in my Boy Scout days.

That display is to show that our Military is allways moving forward and it is a display that is approved by congress.They are also approved to wear thier patch blacked out, or subdued, to show that when in foreign countries we are not an occupying force.

 It was a for instance and no disrespect was meant.
I do not mean for this topic to turn into a debate. A lot of people simply don't know or understand the flag code and it's protocol and i was simply attempting to point that out.
 I read your link and if you read it again, you will see that although the code is correct, the last paragraph is someones' opinion.
 The code reads...... " except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property. " I'll be the first to admit that the traitor is out to destroy us but we are hardly in a condition that the code describes.

[NYRebel13]

That display is to show that our Military is allways moving forward and it is a display that is approved by congress.They are also approved to wear thier patch blacked out, or subdued, to show that when in foreign countries we are not an occupying force.

 It was a for instance and no disrespect was meant.
I do not mean for this topic to turn into a debate. A lot of people simply don't know or understand the flag code and it's protocol and i was simply attempting to point that out.
 I read your link and if you read it again, you will see that although the code is correct, the last paragraph is someones' opinion.
 The code reads...... " except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property. " I'll be the first to admit that the traitor is out to destroy us but we are hardly in a condition that the code describes.

They are after our property.

[lakota]

Whats left for me to say that hasnt already been said? And as far as I am concerned the nation that flag represnts has faded into history and now exists in name only. Today's USA has little in common with 1776's USA. We are no longer a free people unless your version of freedom happens to be getting something for free from the government.

[Jim, West PA]

Wow, that's one sad attitude indeed.

[lakota]

Sad attitude or sad reality? I am not very old and I can no longer see the country that I grew up in.

[NYRebel13]

Sad attitude or sad reality? I am not very old and I can no longer see the country that I grew up in.

So true.  I am not old at all but wish we had the country we had in my childhood or even before that. 

[Jim, West PA]

What's happening is indeed a sad reality. But more than ever we can't afford to have a defeatist attitude.
 Teach your children in the ways of morality and Patriotism. Stand fast and do not accept the immoral issues being forced down our/thier throats.

[BUGEYE]

The ship of state is sinking.  it's a distress signal.

[45-70.gov]

Whats left for me to say that hasnt already been said? And as far as I am concerned the nation that flag represnts has faded into history and now exists in name only. Today's USA has little in common with 1776's USA. We are no longer a free people unless your version of freedom happens to be getting something for free from the government.

i think the flag  and the first ammendment  protect your right
to fly  it upside down  or even burn  it for that matter


if this ammentment were to go  the second one would be next


i didn't like it when i saw  my flag upside  down
tho  i will defend your right to do so


and  after further thought and this thread.......YOUR  RIGHT ON
i considered  that for  my avatar...[just can bring myself to do it tho]

[guzzijohn]

Quote from NYrebel13:
"
So true.  I am not old at all but wish we had the country we had in my childhood or even before that."


Like when the rich were taxed at 91%.
When CEOs only average about 20 times the line workers salary instead of 200+.
When blacks were not allowed to vote.
When black men were lynched or beat to near death for looking at a white women let alone marrying one.
When women were not welcomed in the workforce unless they were teachers, nurses or secretaries.
When heart problems were almost soon and certain death.
When auto deaths and injury were much higher.
When LA and other major cities were a big smog cloud.
Rivers on fire.
Cold war.
When  most special needs children were put in institutions.
When a good corn crop was 80 bushels an acre and wheat 30.
When in 1950 34% of the average family income was spent on food compared to less than 10% now.
McCarthyism.
Higher teen pregnancy rate than now.


Yep, them were the good old days alright. I think I am quite happy in my current time.
GuzziJohn

[NYRebel13]

Quote from NYrebel13:
"
So true.  I am not old at all but wish we had the country we had in my childhood or even before that."


Like when the rich were taxed at 91%.
When CEOs only average about 20 times the line workers salary instead of 200+.
When blacks were not allowed to vote.
When black men were lynched or beat to near death for looking at a white women let alone marrying one.
When women were not welcomed in the workforce unless they were teachers, nurses or secretaries.
When heart problems were almost soon and certain death.
When auto deaths and injury were much higher.
When LA and other major cities were a big smog cloud.
Rivers on fire.
Cold war.
When  most special needs children were put in institutions.
When a good corn crop was 80 bushels an acre and wheat 30.
When in 1950 34% of the average family income was spent on food compared to less than 10% now.
McCarthyism.
Higher teen pregnancy rate than now.


Yep, them were the good old days alright. I think I am quite happy in my current time.
GuzziJohn

No like when kids had respect for their parents, we didn't have to worry about being sued over some stupidity, people had a little common sense, people had better work ethics, we still had God in our schools, parents cold discipline their children instead of fearing they would get arrested for it.

[guzzijohn]

Quote from NYRebael13:
"parents cold discipline their children instead of fearing they would get arrested for it."


Ah yes, nothing like a good old fashion beating. My career is in education, specifically special education. My wife is a retired social worker who spent most of her career as a child neglect and abuse investigator. We can both tell you many horror stories of parental use of "discipline". By the way there is still a lot of work ethic out there. More than nine out of ten people are employed. Back in the day remember the railroad bums, panhandlers, etc.
GuzziJohn

[NYRebel13]

Quote from NYRebael13:
"parents cold discipline their children instead of fearing they would get arrested for it."


Ah yes, nothing like a good old fashion beating. My career is in education, specifically special education. My wife is a retired social worker who spent most of her career as a child neglect and abuse investigator. We can both tell you many horror stories of parental use of "discipline". By the way there is still a lot of work ethic out there. More than nine out of ten people are employed. Back in the day remember the railroad bums, panhandlers, etc.
GuzziJohn

I said discipline, not beating.  I got a belt to the butt back in my childhood, made me the semi-responsible adult that I am today.  And form my dealings with some of the youth coming into the workforce at my job, they are lazy.  My childhood isn't that long ago so my views probably differ from yours.

[lakota]

How about this avatar instead of my current one?
 
 

[cjclemens]

Don't let anyone discourage you from exercising your right to free speech, lakota. I agree - our country is in a state of distress. I think the upside down flag is a stark reminder of that. If it were a real flag, it might be kinda inappropriate (like dialing 911 for no reason). However, it's a chat avatar, so people need to relax...

[Anna]

The ship of state is sinking.  it's a distress signal.

He is absolutely right . This act was once used as a distress signal of a ship in trouble and there is
nothing unpatriotic or disrespectful about it . Country's like England never used it because their flag
looked the same either way. But it wasnt anything that was ever official by any maritime standards.
The confederate stars and bars was once a naval ensign but was adopted by the army of N. Virginia.
It eventually was placed in the top left corner of a white flag with a large red stripe running vertically
down the flags right side. Its said that was done for this same reason so that the CSA ships could
also communicate a distress call. It was also seen used by the land army's of both sides during the
American civil war. But was quickly dismissed as showing the enemy the fighting ability of the
troops that were using it for this . The red stripe on the confederate flag was only put there because
from a distance the white flag looked like one of surrender.

Typically an American idea stemming from the revolutionary war it is still seen today .One more
recent use of this was seen when the Soviet submarine the K19 had to surface because of a
damaged reactor. Another time was where ships were in trouble off the coast of Somalia because of
the attacks from pirates there. Some country's with flags that look the same either way now have
placed stripes along the bottom of their flags used on their ships at sea so to use this to their advantage. Japan was one of them but I don't know if they still do with the arrival of GPS technology.
There is nothing disrespectful about it. its an old way of saying we are in trouble and that's about it.   

If Lakota feels this country is in trouble he is only stating the same sentiments that many here do
verbally all of the time .

[gstewart44]

Lakota,
When I saw your avatar the first and only thought that came into my mind was "Distress/dire emergency".   And I knew that it was a reflection of our country and the direction that the Great Imposter and his DemmyLibs are taking us.  I do not find it insulting or offensive,  but rather a sad omen of where we are. 

[johnpaulh]

"I said discipline, not beating.  I got a belt to the butt back in my childhood, made me the semi-responsible adult that I am today."


Ahhhh yes.....I remember it well.  Mom's old fashioned cure for ADD.  Goof off in church and God's wrath was of secondary consequence to mom.....

Certain knowledge that unacceptable behavior will be met with swift punishment was the best deterrent. 

We'll just admonish in calming tones and maybe enforce "a timeout" instead of ensuring swift and certain punishment for unacceptable behavior. 

[powderman]

I said discipline, not beating.  I got a belt to the butt back in my childhood, made me the semi-responsible adult that I am today.  And form my dealings with some of the youth coming into the workforce at my job, they are lazy.  My childhood isn't that long ago so my views probably differ from yours.

 

       NY REBEL. Good post Sir. POWDERMAN,       

[m-g Willy]

I said discipline, not beating.  I got a belt to the butt back in my childhood, made me the semi-responsible adult that I am today.  And form my dealings with some of the youth coming into the workforce at my job, they are lazy.  My childhood isn't that long ago so my views probably differ from yours.

You have to remember who you are talking too.
You tell a liberal that you whipped your kid,,and they take it to mean you beat mauled tortured them to an inch of their life!
Sorta like the no guns in school rule.
We have liberals throwing 5 and 6 year olds out of school because they pointed their finger. Or they think a deaf child should change his name from "hunter" because they didn't want him signing his name in school!
Liberals = politicaly correct= no common sense= just wrong
 

[guzzijohn]

I am referring to the kid that comes to school with bruises or welts on the back or butt. The kid with bruises all over the body. The kid that cowers if given a stern look. The kid with cigarette burns on their body. The kid with a black eye that hesitantly tells you he ran into a door frame or fell down the stairs. The mentally retarded girl whose father let his four buddies have sex with her. Those are the type of things I am referring to. I do not agree with spanking 99% of the time, there are better methods, but I will agree a mild open hand spanking is not abuse, use of a belt probably is.
GuzziJohn

[gstewart44]

It seems we have taken a tangent here from Lakota's avatar to Corporal punishment and child abuse.......it is a worthy discussion but you may want to start another thread on that one.  Can we get back to the OP's point/counterpoint? 

[Graybeard]

I am the final arbiter of what's OK and what's NOT OK on this site. Until such time as I tell him to remove the avatar it's OK to stay. Whether some members dislike it or not has no bearing on the acceptability of a members avatar.

I've not asked him to remove it.

I do agree the discussion of discipline versus abuse is better handled in a thread dedicated to that subject.

[jhm]

     I really like Annas Avatar,  and I say that as a Complimate not a come on.  Jim

[Spanky]

Seeing my Flag upside down makes me want to puke.
 
 
 
Spanky