Electric cars...

[Victor3]

 In 1900, one of the first production electric cars (Baker Electric) sold for ~$2,300 (~$55,000 in today's $$$) and had a range of ~50 miles.


 Today we have the Nissan Leaf, which sells for ~$35,000 and has a range of ~75 miles.


 What's up with that? My cell phones have progressed faster over a 6 month period. 

[ChungDoQuan]

Battery development would be a lot farther along if the petroleum industry would stop actively working against it. Chevron bought Ovonics in 1994. Ovonics produced the battery for the EV-1, with a range of 150-200 miles per charge. Chevron immediately ceased commercial production of that key technology, and stopped sales of NiMH batteries larger than single cells--- 1.5 volts, in 'C' cell size and smaller. Those sequestered patents set back battery development by 25 years or so, until the lithium batteries could be developed.

By the way, the Baker could only go about 12 miles per hour--- in that, the electrics have held up fairly well.

[Conan The Librarian]

The cell phones evolve to require less power for circuits that are functionally the same. The cars still have to move a large mass.


I'm just glad that they're working on it. I look forward to the day when we have practically useful alternatives to oil. It may take a while, but at least it's being worked on now. Today we've got good cars that will get 40+ mpg, with 50 on the highway.  That's some progress right there. And the cars aren't crappy little tin cans either. They're good machines with comfort and safety built in.


For some people, these hybrids that use electric primarily, like the volt, do make sense for a lot of drivers. They're finding that the original idea that people would typically go about 900 miles on a tank of gas is turning out to be true so long as they are charging the car like they should.


Oh, by the way, this isn't as gratifying as an ear-splitting 500 cubic inch Don Garlits type burnout, but it's cool anyway...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_ukLgsGEzs

[Bugflipper]

Very true Victor. Just looked up the toyota corolla because it was the only 4 cyl car I could think of that is still for sale today that was made in the 60's. They started selling them in 1968 here. Specs say 26 city and 34 hwy for 68. 2013  specs say 27/34.  Was awful nice of them to squeeze that extra mpg out of them for city driving 45 years later.
 Although it didn't stay in production the whole time, the 1950 beetle got 29/34 and the 2013 gets 22/29 according to specs. Now I can look at the greenies driving the new beetles and call them gas guzzlers. 

[Anna]

I recently drove a Polaris electric ATV. It was quiet and had a lot of power and a single charge lasted
all day . But I never did use the 4X4 or really get on it either. But it did have an electric heater that
was so so and I never did use the head lights.

[Conan The Librarian]

I had a 1969 corolla. Today's corolla is a fortress of steel compared to that old tin can.

[jhm]

     Electric cars are for the golf course and since I dont play golf anymore I have no use for them, give me GAS vehicles that way I am sure I will be able to make it back to the place when I go somewhere.  Jim

[Ranger99]

some of the electric cars are very dangerous
to repair as far as shock hazard goes, and they
can't really be dropped off at the local auto
repair shop you've used for years unless the
tech has very specialized training to properly
complete the repair as well as for his own safety.


also, i haven't check in a good while, but i can
remember the last time i checked on a cell for
an electric truck it was over $14000.00


a wee bit pricey for me-  i'll stick with gasoline

[mechanic]

I've been working on electric vehicles, and in some cases designing and building them for over 40 years.  The electrical systems are 95% efficient...as good as it gets.  The batteries?  Still the best battery available is the lead acid, and  they are way too heavy for a road vehicle.
 
What would work, is a combo of the old trolley car and a battery, but that would mean a redesign of the entire road network, and would immediately out tax the electrical grid.
 
The only really viable option is the hydrogen fuel cell.  Google it.
 
Ben

[Swampman]

I'd love to have an electric car.  Natural gas is a good alternative.

[Redtail1949]

To offer the minimum  that the consumer will accept. the cars weight and electric demand to move it and power the air con etc. requires bigger and heavier batteries that will hold enough electric power to run it.
they are learning that it is just not a feesible project. the cost is so great and the return so little the consumer will necer purchase these vehicals on mass scale.

[Graybeard]

The only really viable option is the hydrogen fuel cell.  Google it.

I designed and built a hydrogen fuel cell as my high school science fair project back in either '62 or '63. I won the science fair with it. It's been way too long to remember the output I got but it was well above what I had been lead to believe it would be.

They've been around a long time but just haven't been utilized as they should be.

My truck (2011 Toyota Tundra) is real fuel efficient. I only have to fill up once a month if I don't loan it to Matt.

OK I just don't drive much. The fuel mileage for all roughly 12,000 miles me and Matt have put on it in the 25 months I've had it is 15.6. It was 15.8 until Matt drove it to FL to pick up Blake and bring him back home. That boy has a heavy right foot. Of those 12,000 miles I'd bet Matt has put at least 5000 of them on the truck.

[Victor3]

 Battery tech, oil companies.... Phooey!


 When I was a kid, Popular Mechanics had pictures of happy families getting ready to take their flying car out for a spin, and they said I'd have one by now. 


 Sheesh....All I'm asking for is an affordable electric car that stays on the ground. 





http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/aviation/diy-flying/top-10-attempts-to-build-a-flying-car#slide-5

[Anna]

I read somewhere that the problem with Nat. Gas cars was the way they would have to be fueled.
It's the same with propane which is being used today. Your average motorist isn't smart enough
to be safe when fueling these vehicles and the portability of these fuels presents another problem.
I can't say I know enough about the hydrogen cell concept to say anything . But anytime I hear
the word hydrogen I think of the Hindenburg 

[pastorp]

Not safe to fuel a gas car. Too dumb to do it. Come on now Anna.  I been doing it for over 50 years and haven't started a fire or blown myself up yet. And what's the problem with transporting gas. You just fill your can & secure it in the pickup bed. There all done.

I was recently looking for a utv and decided against electric because every time I use the handicaps carts at the store I ride out to shop & walk back. Didn't want to do that here at the ranch. 

Regards, 

[gypsyman]

Anna, agree with you totally. When I see stupid people smoking a cigarette fueling their cars with gas, can only imagine what could/would happen, when these morons fill up with natural gas. You just can't fix stupid! gypsyman

[Conan The Librarian]

I don't understand the problem. Can't they just use retractable extension chords? They'd have to be pretty long for cross country driving, but I think it ought to work just fine. Maybe just try it out on police cars first.

[scootrd]

The only really viable option is the hydrogen fuel cell.  Google it.
 
Ben

While I agree it's the most Promising technology to provide full towing capabilities for trucks.
The process to extract hydrogen still relies on fossil fuels.

[ChungDoQuan]

The safest way to produce hyrogen is fro various metal alloy substrates--- just add distilled water. Therer was a story in Popular Science, IIRC, about a year ago where a guy produced hydrogen from water poured into a replacable cell filled with magnesium/aluminum/sodium beads. It could be filled around 50 times befort replacing the cell. I think an oil company bought that patent, too.

[jhm]

     I am in the middle of the Fayetville schale Natural gas Veins and we see pick-up trucks that belong to a naturel gas co. that are powered by Nat. gas all the time, I really like the royalty checks that come in on the 1st of EVERY month, I just wish they could use more than they do, Ol wait that sounds like one of those Capitalist.  Jim

[Guy Pike]

We simply don't have have the ability to recharge batteries on the scale necessary to make it feasible. And... Fuel of somemkindmmust be burned to generate electricity.

[Sourdough]

Keep your electric cars!  I live in the Arctic, they don't work up here.  Oxygenated fuel and Ethonol don't work here either.  We need all the BTUs Gasoline and Diesel produce to give us heat so we can drive and stay inside the vehicle.  Propane fueled vehicles work good till it gets down to -30 below, then the lines freeze.  We need good ole Internal Combustion to run when it's -50 or colder, and without Internal Combustion you don't get heat.  Seen drivers of Prius scraping their windshields on the inside to see where they were trying to go.  Like I said keep your electric cars, I want good ole Gasoline and Diesel. 
 
Need to figure out a way to harness all the methain bubbling out of the ground up here.  Everytime I go hunting or crossing the tundra during the summer, methane bubbles up every time I step on the floating grasses.  Plus there is oil floating on the water in the swamps.  We need to use that stuff folks.

[mechanic]

There will come a time to phase out the combustion engine, but we're not nearly there yet...the oil companies themselves are investing in alternative energy products, but most of this is still not practical.
 
The electric car is no issue.  Electric forklifts have been around since Henry Ford was building model T's, and have progressed in ways most could not comprehend, but they are still hampered by the battery.  It's no problem with lifts, as the battery is not only the power source, but the counterweight.  A lead acid battery in a normal lift weighs from 2500 - 5000 lbs.  A forklift will operate approximately 6 - 8 hours with a good battery.  That battery will last about 5 years then needs replacing, at a cost exceeding $5000.00
 
The lithium batteries used in the hybrids would be more expensive if auto mfgs. charged full price for them....but they swallow the loss because other wise it would end Prius sales.....
 
Most of the electric car stuff as it's being sold now is smoke and mirrors...no substance at all.
 
In 1977 I bought a Toyota that got 38mpg hyw.  My new Toyota gets 25.  The very items placed on it to control emissions are much the cause of the loss of mileage.  Some are good.  Computerized engine controls make an engine much more efficient to a point....but they are not set up for that...they are designed to control what comes out the exhaust.
 
Ben

[Swampman]

Prius batteries last 250,000+ miles and you can get an as new used battery for $1200.00 to $1500.00.

[mechanic]

You are correct Swampi, they do last well for the most part.  In those instances where they didn't, the factory has covered them to keep folks from knowing.
 
There is no such thing as an "as new" used battery.  I've been doing this over 40 years.  Batteries, all of them are made up of multiple cells.  You can replace bad cells, but unless you replace them ALL, it's still just a used battery with some cells as old as the ones that failed.
 
Ben

[JonnyReb]

   As an installer of residential natural gas lines, I've long wondered why noone had come out with an at home n\g compressor to charge n\g converted cars. Its really not a safety issue, as in most urban areas, n\g is the norm in every home, and there are standing pilots and gas lines galore, valves and regulators everywhere. Gas is obviously fairly safe if installed to current codes. Filling up is no issue either, most n/g outdoor grills are equiped with a simple slip coupling adapter(quick disconnect) that allows a homeowner to pop his gas line apart at will with no need to even shut off a gascock.  The device shuts the gas off automatically upon disconnection and I've only seen one or two leak eventually at 10+ years old. A similar safe device could easily be designed for in home filling of a car

  On the electric front, I've longed for an electric truck since the gas prices have shot up. In the past, all my work trucks were chevy vans, full sized v8's. In the last 4 or 5 years, I've been driving what used to be my play truck, a toyota tacoma 4cyl.  I carry less stuff now and know I could do the same with a light duty electric truck if anyone ever could produce an affordable model. Truly, if ford would produce another electric ranger like they did in the 80's, it would now sell. The prototypes they brought out, a hundred of them I think, used acid lead batteries and gave a 90 mile range on a full charge. If I'm not mistaken they were very reliable for the hundred lucky individuals that got to test these prototypes as they're daily driver for several years. Sure wish they'd do it again.  J

[mechanic]

The only real drawback to nat. gas is volume.  To get enough in a tank to actually go somewhere, it has to be pressurized to about 3000 psi.  In the wrong hands that pressure could be a real problem....(blond at the filling station ).
 
Ben

[mcbammer]

The only real drawback to nat. gas is volume.  To get enough in a tank to actually go somewhere, it has to be pressurized to about 3000 psi.  In the wrong hands that pressure could be a real problem....(blond at the filling station ).
 
Ben

Yeah  .  that  would  end  self  service.

[JonnyReb]

  Yup, guess that's why .  3000psi sounds like good as reason as any.

[superscifi12]

They have an at home n/g compressor not cheap by any means($4000+) and it is designed to fill a n/g car tank not a standing tank.

Sent from my EVO LTE using Tapatalk 2