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Author Topic: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy  (Read 2610 times)

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Offline ZacH_GrifF

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35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« on: December 31, 2012, 11:30:07 AM »
I just bought a new 35 Whelen in H&R Handi-Rifle and I'm having issues with it misfiring and not getting good groups. I new when I bought it that there were issues with the caliber misfiring but I thought I would take my chances since I had to get the 35 Whelen caliber for primitive weapon in MS. I bought it because I new with a little work these handi-rifles can be good rifles. My groups are like 1.5" at 50 yards with Barnes factory loads. And when I bought the gun I saw that the entire right side portion of the forearm was touching the barrel so I took the forearm off and cut down the stock to clear the barrel and I floated it with an o-ring. Are 1.5" groups what I should expect or can more accuracy be achieved? And I had 3 out of 20 FTF where the primer was dented but no bang. The action on this gun is super tight being that its new so is their any fix to the FTF problem?
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Offline bucco921

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2012, 12:19:36 PM »
I never cured mine. you will hear all kinds of things. You can try wolf hammer springs, stay away from remington brass, neck size only if you reload, load the bullet into the rifling. I tried all of these except the wolf hammer spring and I always had FTF issues. I traded that barrel away. The more I read on it the more im inclined to believe its more a problem with the dimensions of the cartridge(not much of a shoulder to headspace on). I believe TC quit chambering it in the encore for the same reason. Some guys have them and have never had a single FTF. A lot of guys on here have had the problem and came up with a cure. I think you will have to try all of them and see if you can get good results asthere doesnt seem to be a universal solution. Just my 2 cents.
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Offline bucco921

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2012, 12:21:39 PM »
Oh yeah, stay away from cci primers because they are said to be harder than remington and federal.
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Offline ZacH_GrifF

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2012, 12:30:16 PM »
Yea reloading is definitely one of those things on my list to do but Im nowhere close to being able to reload.  I just looked at the wollf springs site and they only showed topper shotgun springs do they use the same springs in the handi's? And how do I know if I have double coil or single coil springs?


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Offline Spanky

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2012, 01:36:24 PM »
Sounds like the same old story for the Whelen. Wait a minute and you'll get all kinds of tips on how to make it go bang every time. Wait a minute more and you'll hear guys say thier Whelens have never had a ftf and they're the best thing going.
Truth is you'll probably never get it sorted out no matter what you do.
I'm sorry to hear about your troubles but I'm not surprised.
 
 
 
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Offline peak98

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2012, 02:48:23 PM »
Spanky's is correct. I have never had a FTF but I couldn't get mine to group better than 2.5 inches or so with factory ammo. On the FTF's, did you notice if they where light primer strikes ? Did the FTF rounds fire on a second try?  I relieved the tension from the forearm (floated the barrel, nylon O-ring x2, also sanded the rear of the forearm). Once I sanded the rear of the forearm to the point that now when I release the breech lock it falls open freely, that really helped with accuracy. My rifle likes the Federal 220gr TBBC factory loads shooting easily under an inch when I do my part. Also, my handi has gotten better the more I have shot it. Minor differences in the 35W neck size with ammo manufactures could definately lead to FTF's. Where are you located, I hunt in Mississippi and live in Louisiana and would be glad to help you figure in out. I was frustrated with mine to at one point, it took a little tinkering and figuring out what the rifle needed. I killed my first doe with it a couple weeks ago at 197 steps and wouldn't hesitate to shoot 300y with it.
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Offline Jason F

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2012, 02:58:26 PM »
If you get tired of that whelen barrel let me know. I will take it off your hands.
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Offline blind ear

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2012, 03:12:18 PM »
I had FTF with a 357 and 22hornet on the same frame. Firing pit not protruding enough on fireing. Took a little off of the top of the hammer and cured it. Rimmed cases. With your rimless may not be so lucky. Check hammer protrusion with hammer down fire position trigger squeeze, barrel off. Check the stickies. ear
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Offline ZacH_GrifF

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2012, 03:24:28 PM »
Here's a picture of the FTF, fired shell is on top and FTF is on bottom. And they would not fire on a second try.

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Offline ZacH_GrifF

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2012, 03:36:44 PM »
I just took the barrel off the gun and cocked the hammer and I pushed the transfer bar down on the firing pin and then squeezed the trigger and I see that there is definitely length to be gained how do yall suggest shaving the hammer?
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Offline OR-E-Gun Bill

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2012, 04:16:15 PM »
Sure hope you read thoroughly in the FAQ's before ya start whittling or grinding away on your Handi. 
Just saying...
 
 
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Offline ZacH_GrifF

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2012, 04:34:40 PM »
Are there any ill affects to shaving the hammer stop?
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Offline blind ear

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2012, 06:05:36 PM »
Quote from: model700 on December 31, 2012, 04:34:40 PM
Are there any ill affects to shaving the hammer stop?
-
There definitely could be. If the light strike is due to mostly a head space problem you could end up puncturing primers when the head space problem is figured out. Go to the FAQ;s and eliminate the possibility of a head space problems first. ear
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Offline peak98

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2012, 06:50:28 PM »
Try this as well. If you have the hammer extension on, take it off, shoot some more and see if that makes any difference.
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Offline Wagguy80

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2013, 01:40:10 AM »
I hunt in MS I wanted a .35 Whelen but after hearing the hassles some were having I went with the .444 marlin and no regrets so far.


Before I dumped a bunch of money, and voided my warranty trying to "fix" the 35 whelen I would suggest just dropping $100 next season and sending it in for a .45-70 or a .444 marlin barrel. 


Most around here in MS call the 35 whelen the "God hammer on deer" but frankly any of the 3 will knock their block off.
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Offline Dinny

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2013, 03:57:19 AM »
I hope to avoid all the misfire problems by using 7x65R brass necked up to 35cal and by having Wayne York do the rechamber. I also have a .356 Win stubbed Handi. Never had any issues with my rimmed Handis, hopefully I never do.

Thanks, Dinny
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2013, 06:04:38 AM »
Quote from: model700 on December 31, 2012, 11:30:07 AM
I just bought a new 35 Whelen in H&R Handi-Rifle and I'm having issues with it misfiring and not getting good groups. I new when I bought it that there were issues with the caliber misfiring but I thought I would take my chances since I had to get the 35 Whelen caliber for primitive weapon in MS. I bought it because I new with a little work these handi-rifles can be good rifles. My groups are like 1.5" at 50 yards with Barnes factory loads. And when I bought the gun I saw that the entire right side portion of the forearm was touching the barrel so I took the forearm off and cut down the stock to clear the barrel and I floated it with an o-ring. Are 1.5" groups what I should expect or can more accuracy be achieved? And I had 3 out of 20 FTF where the primer was dented but no bang. The action on this gun is super tight being that its new so is their any fix to the FTF problem?

There's a service notice for that, send it back and have it repaired. Their standard for accuracy is 2" or less 3-shot groups at 100yds with factory ammo. Be sure to read the Handi Basics sticky, there are several things you need to know about when shooting a Handi that can greatly affect accuracy, specially on a new firearm, oil on the latch/shelf and not closing the action firmly are a couple big ones.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,216635.msg1099172152.html#msg1099172152
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Offline ZacH_GrifF

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2013, 06:13:45 AM »
I'm not going to cut on it right now. Tim do I need to send it to H&R directly or do I need to send it to one of their qualified repair centers and is their any garuntee that they won't just put a different caliber on the gun?
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2013, 06:23:37 AM »
You can call to get a return authorization, ask for Lisa Walters, tell her the problems and be sure to ask for them to cover return shipping, they'll send you a prepaid shipping label. They have replacement 35 Whelen barrels, you might even be able to request one with sights if that's your preference if they need to replace the barrel, they're listed on the accessory barrel list.

Tim

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Offline ZacH_GrifF

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2013, 07:36:29 AM »
So I should call the 1-866... Number listed on the repair page?
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2013, 07:47:14 AM »
Yes, Madison Customer Support, toll free (866)776-9292.  ;) Dunno if they'll be open tomorrow, seems to me they close for the holidays until the first full week of the Jan, but I don't trust my memory so much any more!  :-[

Happy New Year!!

Tim
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Offline gendoc

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2013, 07:59:04 AM »
tim, even with our severe cases of CRS..... you have steared this fella in tha right direction
 as always...  unlike all tha BS that others have voiced >:(    hey you, i ana few others have great success
with our whelens.
as i have said before........your rifle is as good as you prepare it. if ya can't handle it..... don't gripe
or blame it on being rimless ::)  thats justa excuse.
thanks tim, and we wish you tha best luck mod700.............. 8)
 
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Offline ZacH_GrifF

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2013, 08:12:44 AM »
Thanks for the help Tim. Anytime I can send the gun to the manufacturer over working on it myself makes me feel much better. And do you know what the usual turn around time on shipping is?
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Offline Spanky

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2013, 08:17:42 AM »
It's great that he can send it back to Big Green to get it fixed. In the real world a guy should be able to go into the gunshop, buy the Whelen Handi, buy a box of factory ammo and have it work... EVERY TIME!!
But... like I said it's great that Big Green will fix it.
 
 
 
Spanky
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Offline Wagguy80

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2013, 09:24:48 AM »
Like I said I originally wanted a .35 whelen but the fear of it being a hassle made me choose another.  My friend has a Scout he had no problems with it for the first box of ammo.  Second box *click* no bang. 2 out of 20.  Not a big deal unless one of the two happens when a 10 point whitetail walks out.



Some folks don't have the money/time to fiddle with custom reloads to ensure reliability.


Others have reported sending it off multiple times, and still having the problems.  So send it off and hope it comes back fixed but I firmly believe the problem lies in the ammo.  You would need to micrometer every shell to catch it.


So you might want to consider when you send it back to throw an extra $95 at it, and get a .45-70 or .444 marlin barrel.  Then if the .35 whelen still gives you problems you can fiddle with it in your spare time, and go get some meat with the .45-70 or .444 marlin.  While I have a .444 marlin it was a song and a dance price.  Ammo availability I would recommend the .45-70
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2013, 11:12:39 AM »
Quote from: model700 on January 01, 2013, 08:12:44 AM
Thanks for the help Tim. Anytime I can send the gun to the manufacturer over working on it myself makes me feel much better. And do you know what the usual turn around time on shipping is?

Recently turn around has been 2 weeks, but if they've been closed for the holidays, that may have changed until they get caught up.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,271425.msg1099632861.html#msg1099632861
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2013, 11:17:40 AM »
Quote from: gendoc on January 01, 2013, 07:59:04 AM
tim, even with our severe cases of CRS..... you have steared this fella in tha right direction
 as always...  unlike all tha BS that others have voiced >:(    hey you, i ana few others have great success
with our whelens.
as i have said before........your rifle is as good as you prepare it. if ya can't handle it..... don't gripe
or blame it on being rimless ::)  thats justa excuse.
thanks tim, and we wish you tha best luck mod700.............. 8)

You're welcome and thanks, us old guys have ta stick together!!  ;D

Tim
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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2013, 06:03:43 PM »
Quote from: model700 on January 01, 2013, 08:12:44 AM
Thanks for the help Tim. Anytime I can send the gun to the manufacturer over working on it myself makes me feel much better. And do you know what the usual turn around time on shipping is?
About two weeks, that's what it took for me to get a new ejector replaced.
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Offline ZacH_GrifF

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2013, 06:41:22 PM »
Thanks OldSchoolRanger. I'm going to send it in to get it worked on for the misfire and I'm getting a 45-70 barrel fitted in case the misfire problem continues.
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Offline theratdog

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Re: 35 Whelen Misfire/Accuracy
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2013, 10:34:08 PM »
so really what is the real problem with that caliber? the primer is surely denting the primer enough i had the the same problem with milsurp ammo but they always went off on second try i would think it would the primer's. i have had lighter strikes on my 45 and they went off.
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